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River Racer Jet Class Proposal

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MrEracer

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« on: March 16, 2013, 02:42:38 PM »
Lets make this a serious racing class and get rid of the GPS speed limit and replace it with a displacement limit.  Say 475 cid NA.  Everything else the same as Comp Jet...  Lets kick this idea around.  I think it would generate more interest in the new class, especially from those that want to race more than once on Terry's nickle... 

Speeds would be lower and engines would last longer.  Your comments please.
Shirl Dickey
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Ralph Brunt

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« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2013, 04:30:58 PM »
Lets make this a serious racing class and get rid of the GPS speed limit and replace it with a displacement limit.  Say 475 cid NA.  Everything else the same as Comp Jet...  Lets kick this idea around.  I think it would generate more interest in the new class, especially from those that want to race more than once on Terry's nickle... 

Speeds would be lower and engines would last longer.  Your comments please.
Shirl Dickey
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ever seen an 800hp 466 or 472? well i have and i know if you do this, that is were this class will go.... hell do you pump the c/j motors when they win? When do you propose to pump the river racer motors to make sure they are class legal... or would we still have to protest to make sure the playing field is legal? how about pumping all winning motors... just food for thought ;)

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« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2013, 04:55:30 PM »
The NJ class was a BUDGET class allowing anyone to run and be competitive. That is what the RR class should be as well. I say stick to the GPS rule and allow any motor (blown, turbo, NOS, etc). It keeps the playing field fair. Just as ralph said, theres enough bitching in CJ about whos legal and who isnt. THAT to me is what is killing CJ - people giving the bad name of cheaters running in the class instead - those who are bitching/crying- should be doing the right thing and properly protesting.

If you change this RR class, it eliminates people like myself and ralph from running the class.....but allows you to dominate the class with your aluminum block rule you want to propose in CJ - right? I vote no on this proposal.

If someone has a problem with the speed limits, then they gotta open their wallet and build a CJ boat/motor.

My vote is to keep it the same.

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MrEracer

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« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2013, 05:32:12 PM »
  Brad, if you think my aluminum small block will dominate the field against the engines Ralph mentioned you would be wrong.  I'm making 700hp on a good day...   BTW, an aluminium LS engine is a lot less expensive to build than those engines as well.   I'm running hydraulic lifters and stock valve train...

  I would have no problem if the class was limited to cast iron blocks.  As far as I am concerned, GPS racing is not racing, it's just arriving at the finish line on schedule...

  I have seen some serious HP made from the engines like Ralph mentioned and they all made it at very high RPM, like 8500 rpm.  Not easy to get to that RPM level with a pump...   How about some positive ideas rather than the classic 'no can do' approach.
Shirl
« Last Edit: March 16, 2013, 05:49:17 PM by MrEracer »

Ralph Brunt

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« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2013, 06:04:52 PM »
on a brighter note HOW BOUT JACK/BANDY'S NEW KILO RECORD awsome :thumbup:

i understand that the class needs some thing :-\ what it is i dont know, maybe a bump up in speed limit say 85? hell its bracket racing in a circle...  Shirl, have you tried to run in the class? i have and its harder than one would think to (as you say) "arrive on time"....

im all ears as i plan to come racing (on my nickle) matter of fact all my parts are here accept for the main bearing witch will be shipped end of this month however, the cubic inch rule will eliminate me and i will not build another motor to suit the cubic inch rule...... so now you are not gaining ground you are losing it..
Ralph

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« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2013, 06:12:32 PM »
I would also suggest that if you want to go GPS racing that the NJ class be maintained for that  purpose and the RRJ class be opened up to run the smaller, less expensive, and more reliable engines.

As to the CJ Class, you can pump my engine anytime you want, no money or protest needed.  Just bring the P&G machine.  I also would like to see all first place boats pumped, its not that hard to remove the spark plugs.

And as to getting out your wallet to run CJ, that just got a whole lot more expensive today.  Whose going to try and compete with Jack and Tom.  Congratulations to them for setting the kilo record up by 11 mph, I hope they haven't killed the class in the process.
Shirl

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« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2013, 06:32:59 PM »
ok so you want to make another class and you cant fill the two you have now? i say go for it, gather the boats and get Ross to put it in the program.. Ross will do just about anything as long as its safe and the boats are there to promote the class....

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Glasscutter, Skip, OC2  Nordie and many more nail me good every time, relentlessly, I love those guys!

MrEracer

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« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2013, 06:34:29 PM »
Here's another thought.  How about we grandfather your current engine into the RRJ class so long as it is not more than 515 cid (CJ legal).  If and when that engine is removed or blown you have to build one to the RRJ CID limit.  That way anyone wanting to run the class could do so until the engine needed to be replaced.  There has to be a way to bridge the gap...

I would limit grandfathering to CJ boats that have not raced in the 2013 racing season.
Shirl
« Last Edit: March 16, 2013, 06:51:10 PM by MrEracer »

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« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2013, 06:38:10 PM »
shirl       River Racer /Nostalgia was created so that someone who is interested in racing has a entry level class to enter where they can get the feel of racing competition, are able to enhance thier driving skills and see if this is something they want to do. The costs are minimal as they can run anything with the expense of only safety equipment. There are a lot of Jet boaters who race up and down the rivers who now have a chance to do it for real against competition. The speed limit keeps everyone on an even keel and allows for them to prove that driving skills are importent. My thoughts behind my offer  is to see other people have the same chance as i have to enjoy the competition and friendship that racing brings

MrEracer

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« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2013, 06:46:43 PM »
Terry,
  I'm not suggesting that we change anything with the upcoming Parker RRJ/NJ race.  We need to see how much interest there is in that.  I am looking farther down the road.  We have a big problem keeping engines alive in the CJ class.  I don't see any way to change the CJ class to help with that problem.   A lower displacement jet class would offer a solution to those that cannot afford to keep paying for blown engines in the CJ class.  And that includes me.
Shirl

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« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2013, 06:50:55 PM »
  A lower displacement jet class would offer a solution to those that cannot afford to keep paying for blown engines in the CJ class.  And that includes me.
Shirl
with all due respect shirl, we have that class you just dont like it so now you want to make another class....

once again, have you ran the n/j rrj class?

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« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2013, 06:52:49 PM »
Why not a straight up run what you brung class no ci limits no weight limits just safety rules

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« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2013, 07:02:09 PM »
Ralph,
  I like the class, I just don't like the GPS.  And no, I have not run in an NJ race.  We have talked and talked about running the NJ class and there is never any interest.  Now that Terry and stepped up with his support I expect to see some boats running RRJ/NJ.  The questions is, how many will come back after the support is gone?  If they don't come back and the class dies, I want to talk about replacing it with something like I have suggested here.  Can we at least wait and see if the GPS RRJ class takes hold?  I agree that we don't need two new jet classes.
Shirl

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« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2013, 07:04:58 PM »
Why not a straight up run what you brung class no ci limits no weight limits just safety rules
i dont have any real answer for you sorry,

Shirl, lets not put the class to bed with out you even trying it, its harder than you think..
i think the best thing is to go to parker and ask the new guys in the rrj class if they are coming back, and if not what would it take to bring them back....
« Last Edit: March 16, 2013, 07:09:06 PM by Ralph Brunt »

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Glasscutter, Skip, OC2  Nordie and many more nail me good every time, relentlessly, I love those guys!

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« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2013, 07:15:55 PM »
JD this is supposed to be an entry level class.  It is also a continuing problem to fill all of these jet classes on a regular basis.  A run what you brung class would likely be dominated by whoever has the deepest wallet.  It would seem like kind of a hollow victory to beat 4 or 5 other guys just because you were able to spend more money, but I'm sure that is what would happen.
I think the GPS limit makes sense.  The stress on these engines is insane, and this is the only way I can see to keep the costs reasonable.  I'm not sure it wouldn't be a good idea to have an RPM limit added maybe a bump in displacement, to keep things even more reliable.  But then I think that may go against the way in which a jetboat makes MPH.  I do know that it is ridiculously expensive to run these boats for a weekend race all things considered.  Huge props (or should I say jets) to you guys who do it.  It is fun to watch, that is for sure.
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« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2013, 07:26:23 PM »
GlassCutter, im thinking restrictor plate or a spec carb but, i think that is done in p/s or s/s and then you get into the deep wallet again....

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They are all fukin tasty. My long time favorite, "Dirty Dicks -beerjet-
Glasscutter, Skip, OC2  Nordie and many more nail me good every time, relentlessly, I love those guys!

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« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2013, 07:27:15 PM »
Ya i was sayin for there motor argument they should do a run what you brung i think im gonna run my olds in the rrj class when im more comfy in it and if it blows ill build my bbc and do the swap

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« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2013, 07:46:40 PM »
If you expect to run an Olds more than one time AND be competitive, you will spend waaaay more money than putting together anything else.  Everything about the Olds design from the size of the mains on up will run against you.   Olds motors were built to move big heavy cars at low RPM.  Racing boats is a whole 'nother world.   But hey, they told the Wright Bros. that man shouldn't fly but that didn't stop 'em from trying.
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« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2013, 08:46:55 PM »
Ya ive done all the oiling mods and its around 600+ hp i wont run it in a circle race till i start building the chev so if/ when it goes i have a motor

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« Reply #19 on: March 16, 2013, 10:13:17 PM »
you should do it in an olds!   cause i there nothing like the look you get from people you beat, when you tell them (i have a 455 olds)   yah you lost to an olds!    >:D
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quick olds

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« Reply #20 on: March 16, 2013, 10:30:50 PM »
Ya the chevy guys hate it lol i love hevy but i didnt know better when i bought my boat so i roll with it lol

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« Reply #21 on: March 17, 2013, 07:01:01 AM »
you should do it in an olds!   cause i there nothing like the look you get from people you beat, when you tell them (i have a 455 olds)   yah you lost to an olds!    >:D
winning with the olds would be cool, and if you do it shows the motor builder knows his shit :thumbup:

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They are all fukin tasty. My long time favorite, "Dirty Dicks -beerjet-
Glasscutter, Skip, OC2  Nordie and many more nail me good every time, relentlessly, I love those guys!

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« Reply #22 on: March 17, 2013, 08:59:33 AM »
I think the GPS has three positives with fewer negatives.
The way I see it, it keeps a fairly even playing field making sure the"rookies"don't have to run with 90mph boats.

It keeps the drivers safer with a speed cap, this imho is a huge positive.

It allows racers to get a taste for racing in its purest form. Similar to the jalopy classes on dirt ovals.

I would think if the GPS rule were eliminated and speeds not capped, there would be very few takers for fears that they would in no way be competitive.

I would be much more open to running a GPS class than an entry level spec motor class just because of all the bitching and moaning in those classes.

The only other way it could be done is with crate motors, and in all honesty, that will take away from the vibe of intent of the class.

The way it is right now, you could literally rip the seats out of your family boat and go have a blast.

Anybody remember Ralph at Long Beach?8) that was awesome.
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« Reply #23 on: March 17, 2013, 10:28:01 AM »
  Brad, if you think my aluminum small block will dominate the field against the engines Ralph mentioned you would be wrong.  I'm making 700hp on a good day...   BTW, an aluminium LS engine is a lot less expensive to build than those engines as well.   I'm running hydraulic lifters and stock valve train...

  I have seen some serious HP made from the engines like Ralph mentioned and they all made it at very high RPM, like 8500 rpm.  Not easy to get to that RPM level with a pump...   How about some positive ideas rather than the classic 'no can do' approach.
Shirl

you missed the point - ralph has spent a ton of money rebuilding his 500~ish inch motor to come back and race NJ. I am putting my 513 back together to do the same - WHY? because we both missed what racing was about - having fun. Thats what NJ was about. Where it wasnt about the fastest boat with the owner with the deepest pockets - it was about the better driver.

changing this RR rule will eliminate both of us from running.  :thumbdown:
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« Reply #24 on: March 17, 2013, 12:33:52 PM »
Brad, go back and read post #7.  That should take care of the problem...
Shirl

 


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