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sc68z28

  • Karma: +0/-0
1971 Southwind 429 SCJ worth doing?
« on: December 14, 2019, 04:26:28 PM »
Newbie here, been reading a lot, first post...
The boat (free if I want it) is in Oregon, last time I saw it was 15+ years ago.
Around that time while pulling a skier up, an engine knock developed. They (my brother in-law) took it home and partially disassembled the engine. Then left it to rust   :banghead:

I now have just the engine here in SoCal, boat is still in OR. The #2 piston has a broken skirt, bores have surface rust, rod caps are junk from rust, crank is a maybe (?), heads (D00E-R) need a few valves and exhaust seats are rust pitted, guides are good. Block (D0VE-A) is a 4 bolt main, some of the freeze plugs are pushed out and one is missing, froze with water in it?
Most of the other parts are junk.

If the block is able to go +.030" and the heads can be saved with some new hardened exhaust seats and a few valves... I  will do a Scatt Rotating Assembly (502 ci), cam, lifters, springs, chain, push rods, rockers, oil pump, etc...
Probably going to be in the ball park of $5500. with machine work.

So my Question is it worth spending close to $6K on a 1971 South Wind?

It has a Berkeley pump with a stainless impeller, unknown cut.
BTW, I am a drag racer and mostly a Chevy guy, so building a BB Ford to make peak power at 5K is a little foreign and hard to wrap my head around. But with help from the great forum you guys have here I am confident it could work.

---Bill.     
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Flusher

  • Karma: +84/-0
Re: 1971 Southwind 429 SCJ worth doing?
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2019, 06:57:09 AM »
I can't say that I am a fan of Fords in boats.  I am a huge car guy and I would say that engine is definitely worth saving!  I would break out the Evapo-Rust and clean up as many of the parts as possible.  Don't throw anything away!  IMHO, an engine like that belongs in a car restoration.

Again, IMHO, that engine in a boat will not bring any more value to the boat as a whole.  It could actually turn off some potential buyers when you go to sell.

Since you stated that you are a Chevy guy, i would strongly recommend parting out that engine to finance a Chevy.  Ultimately, you will be happier and the SCJ will be happier in a loving new home.  Then there are the supporting parts, like headers, that, if in good condition, could also be sold off.

As far as the boat itself, that really depends on its condition.  If you are looking at replacing a floor, stringers, interior, fiberglass fuel tanks, etc., the engine expense is just the tip of the iceberg.  From the description of the condition of the engine, I'm guessing that the hull and trailer are in a similar condition.

Now for the good news, Southwind Boats do have a pretty strong following, and will have a pretty good resale value.  Many people are electing to restore older boats rather than buying new.  Emissions requirements is one reason.

Now for the double edged dagger.  If you are looking at a complete ground up restoration, with a return on your investment, that's going to depend on a great many factors.

You really need to figure out exactly what you want out of this boat.  Are you capable of doing much of the work yourself AND do you enjoy that?  Does the boat have sentimental value to you?  Exactly which Southwind is it?  Do you have paperwork on the boat and the trailer?

Posting pictures would really help.
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"I want to roll with my brother Joe" - Joe Bateman - January 29, 1950 ~ November 27, 2013

sc68z28

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 1971 Southwind 429 SCJ worth doing?
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2019, 02:10:41 PM »
I hear ya, Have considered selling the SCJ parts, but as you suspected there is some sentimental value in keeping it with the original motor.
 
Model? Only thing I remember was it is 18'

Yes I am a DIY'er and I understand it is really going to come down to "depends on condition" of the rest of the boat.
I have been told stringers are good. It was stored inside until recently, how recent, I don't know? Last time I saw the boat it was a time capsule and in perfect condition, (15+ years) but now after seeing the condition of the engine parts, I have real concerns.

Guess I should get the block magnafluxed for cracks and have someone look at the exhaust seats. I am assuming they should be replace with hardened ones?

---Bill.

 
« Last Edit: December 15, 2019, 04:57:06 PM by sc68z28 »
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Flusher

  • Karma: +84/-0
Re: 1971 Southwind 429 SCJ worth doing?
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2019, 03:51:57 PM »
Excellent, now we know where we stand.

For such an engine, contacting Lakes Only here or at http://www.highflowdynamics.com would be a good start.  He specializes in the Ford 385 series engine.

Start a build thread and post up pictures of the boat when you can.
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sc68z28

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 1971 Southwind 429 SCJ worth doing?
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2019, 08:24:49 PM »
  I would break out the Evapo-Rust and....

Thanks for this tip ^^^ "Evapo-Rust" never heard of it. After some research, found some videos, looks like some pretty amassing stuff! Got 5 gallons on the way.

Talked to the bro in-law today trying to find out more about the condition of the boat.
No interior... He said it when bad a few years back and he through it away.
He says the hull, glass, gelcoat, stringers are all in great shape.
Pump was freshened just before the engine problem.
He is going to get me pics when it stops raining up there.

During our talk he told me the story when he purchased the boat new, here in Riverside Ca, back in 1971. Pretty interesting if true??
He said in 1971 Malcolm Smith (of motorcycle, desert racer fame) either owned/started or part-owner or invested in or endorsed  SouthWind boats? This boat is one of just 4, or was #4 (?) while Malcolm had a connection with SouthWind.
According to Mike (bro in-law) Malcolm sold his interest in SouthWind shortly after he took delivery of this boat from Malcolm.
I tried to search info on the above, no luck. So if anyone has heard anything like this before, please post what you know. I am curious what part, if any of the above is true?  I don't think any of this helps the boats value and it may hurt it, usually early versions can be questionable? 

---Bill.   
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LakesOnly

  • Karma: +15/-0
Re: 1971 Southwind 429 SCJ worth doing?
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2019, 03:41:42 PM »
Newbie here, been reading a lot, first post...
The boat (free if I want it) is in Oregon, last time I saw it was 15+ years ago.
Around that time while pulling a skier up, an engine knock developed. They (my brother in-law) took it home and partially disassembled the engine. Then left it to rust   :banghead:

I now have just the engine here in SoCal, boat is still in OR. The #2 piston has a broken skirt, bores have surface rust, rod caps are junk from rust, crank is a maybe (?), heads (D00E-R) need a few valves and exhaust seats are rust pitted, guides are good. Block (D0VE-A) is a 4 bolt main, some of the freeze plugs are pushed out and one is missing, froze with water in it?
Most of the other parts are junk.

If the block is able to go +.030" and the heads can be saved with some new hardened exhaust seats and a few valves... I  will do a Scatt Rotating Assembly (502 ci), cam, lifters, springs, chain, push rods, rockers, oil pump, etc...
Probably going to be in the ball park of $5500. with machine work.

So my Question is it worth spending close to $6K on a 1971 South Wind?

It has a Berkeley pump with a stainless impeller, unknown cut.
BTW, I am a drag racer and mostly a Chevy guy, so building a BB Ford to make peak power at 5K is a little foreign and hard to wrap my head around. But with help from the great forum you guys have here I am confident it could work.

---Bill.   
Bill,

As a jet boat owner over a few decades, and as a BBF 385 Series engine builder, I can tell you that the Ford engine is gaining in popularity in Jet boats for the last twenty years.  They are a stout, reliable engine with a plethora of aftermarket parts available for them now.  I regularly have guys coming to me to swap a BBF into their boat in place of the BBC.  (No disrespect to the BBC, I'm just pointing out that more and more people recognize the attributes of the 429/460 engine platform for this application).  You have a good starting point for the engine, and it's wise to step up to a 500-inch deal since those iron Cobra Jet heads don't really work well in smaller engines (regardless of Ford putting them on a little ol' 429).  Also, contrary to cosmetic appearance I'll bet your engine parts are all usable, so hold onto everything for now.

This is all way too much to type so please grab a pen & paper and call me at the shop number and I'll be happy to answer all your questions and point you in the right direction...or ion the very least help you make a well educated decision over exactly which engine to build and why.
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Flusher

  • Karma: +84/-0
Re: 1971 Southwind 429 SCJ worth doing?
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2019, 06:17:22 AM »
I know LakesOnly will give you the best advice, but I will say it anyway.

Don't just bore the block oversize.  If the bores aren't damaged, maybe it can remain standard.

It always bothers me when life is unnecessarily taken out of a rare block.
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"I want to roll with my brother Joe" - Joe Bateman - January 29, 1950 ~ November 27, 2013

sc68z28

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 1971 Southwind 429 SCJ worth doing?
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2019, 09:24:04 AM »
Bill,
This is all way too much to type so please grab a pen & paper and call me at the shop number and I'll be happy to answer all your questions and point you in the right direction...

Thanks, I will do that after the first of the year. I'm putting this project on hold, busy prepping my Camaro for an outing in January. The track (Fontana) is open Jan 4/5 2020 Hangover Bracket Bash.   

I know LakesOnly will give you the best advice, but I will say it anyway.

Don't just bore the block oversize.  If the bores aren't damaged, maybe it can remain standard.

It always bothers me when life is unnecessarily taken out of a rare block.

Not sure if the block can stay stranded, not boring it, unless it's needed.

Bill.
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sc68z28

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 1971 Southwind 429 SCJ worth doing?
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2020, 06:16:12 PM »
Well, I got the heads cleaned up (Evapo-Rust) and everything tore down. Block and heads loaded, going for machine work. When I see it... 4" crack in the block behind the #8 cylinder  :banghead:

The crack was hiding behind the flex plate and block plate, even after I removed them, to pull the crank, did not see the crack because the engine stand was in the way.  :mad: Only after everything was loaded, ready to go, then I see it.

Not sure what will happen with the Southwind, I am done with this deal.
Probably start looking for a boat to buy. Wife said I better have something to put in the water by summer.

Got a good set of SCJ heads (casing # D00E-R) if anyone is interested.

---Bill.   
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Flusher

  • Karma: +84/-0
Re: 1971 Southwind 429 SCJ worth doing?
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2020, 07:29:42 PM »
I really wanted this to come together for you
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"I want to roll with my brother Joe" - Joe Bateman - January 29, 1950 ~ November 27, 2013

JordanDangerfield

  • Karma: +41/-0
Re: 1971 Southwind 429 SCJ worth doing?
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2020, 09:29:53 PM »
Sorry to hear man!! Good luck on the hunt for a new rig. Share with us so we can help spend your money! Haha

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using SoCal Jet Boats mobile app

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The_Dean_85

  • Karma: +5/-0
Re: 1971 Southwind 429 SCJ worth doing?
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2020, 02:35:21 PM »
Well, I got the heads cleaned up (Evapo-Rust) and everything tore down. Block and heads loaded, going for machine work. When I see it... 4" crack in the block behind the #8 cylinder  :banghead:

The crack was hiding behind the flex plate and block plate, even after I removed them, to pull the crank, did not see the crack because the engine stand was in the way.  :mad: Only after everything was loaded, ready to go, then I see it.

Not sure what will happen with the Southwind, I am done with this deal.
Probably start looking for a boat to buy. Wife said I better have something to put in the water by summer.

Got a good set of SCJ heads (casing # D00E-R) if anyone is interested.

---Bill.
PM sent


Sent from my iPhone using SoCal Jet Boats mobile app
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sc68z28

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 1971 Southwind 429 SCJ worth doing?
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2020, 06:41:37 PM »
PM sent

Dean PM sent.

As I said earlier I am done with this, but here's the deal...
 Almost 30 years ago I gave my brother in-law (same Bro in-law that owns the Southwind) a 19' Tahiti tri-hull with an LS6 454/ Berkeley. He said about 10 years ago the stringers went bad, so it's just sitting in Oregon next to the Southwind. If the LS6 hasn't rusted (?) and if it was me... I would strip the Tahiti and fix the Southwind with the BB Chevy. I just don't have the time or room for two boats in my yard right now, but some day it could happen.

---Bill.   
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LakesOnly

  • Karma: +15/-0
Re: 1971 Southwind 429 SCJ worth doing?
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2020, 09:21:13 PM »
Well, I got the heads cleaned up (Evapo-Rust) and everything tore down. Block and heads loaded, going for machine work. When I see it... 4" crack in the block behind the #8 cylinder  :banghead:

The crack was hiding behind the flex plate and block plate, even after I removed them, to pull the crank, did not see the crack because the engine stand was in the way.  :mad: Only after everything was loaded, ready to go, then I see it.

Not sure what will happen with the Southwind, I am done with this deal.
Probably start looking for a boat to buy. Wife said I better have something to put in the water by summer.

Got a good set of SCJ heads (casing # D00E-R) if anyone is interested.

---Bill.
Bill, I still want to help and could possibly have an engine ready for your boat on time. At the very least I am interested in the heads and oddly enough the cracked block which I might be able to make use of.  Please call.
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We're on the web; click below:
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