Null


Null


460 Ford no compression #2 cyl.

  • 19 Replies
  • 5977 Views

RiverRat474

  • Join Date: Apr 2014
  • Location: Phoenix, Az
  • *
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 508
  • Karma: +15/-0
  • Registered User
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
« on: February 01, 2015, 02:17:08 PM »
Last season I let a friend take my boat out when, he returned the hull was full of water bulge running and driver passenger with ghost white faces. Motor only had two seasons priceless. I just pulled the motor and found a few questionable things.

1. Cause no compression broken exhaust valve #2
2. Broken piece around intake valve #8
3. 2 Pushrod mushroomed #1 exhaust and #2 intake
4,5. Passenger side of engine lifters are only half on the cam lobes
6,7. The piston won the battle valve was no where to be found lol

Looking for advice on what to do moving forward
I'm so far behind I think I'm in first


Null


jimpen

  • Join Date: May 2014
  • *
  • SCJB Plus Member
  • Macho Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,874
  • Karma: +68/-0
  • Registered User
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 69
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2015, 02:29:47 PM »
Don't let a friend take your boat out all the advice I have on this matter.  Did you find out what they did to cause the problem


Sent from my iPhone using SoCal Jet Boats
  • Boat #1: 18 CP
  • Boat #2: Xcursion 23 RF

RiverRat474

  • Join Date: Apr 2014
  • Location: Phoenix, Az
  • *
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 508
  • Karma: +15/-0
  • Registered User
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2015, 02:32:07 PM »
He said he hit a wave the wrong way and swamp it
I'm so far behind I think I'm in first

lifted250

  • Join Date: Sep 2014
  • *
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 719
  • Karma: +6/-0
  • Registered User
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2015, 02:41:04 PM »
Sounds like bent valve


Sent from my iPhone using SoCal Jet Boats

RushinEliminator17

  • Join Date: Oct 2011
  • Location: Los Angeles, Ca
  • *
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 595
  • Karma: +8/-0
  • Registered User
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 2
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2015, 03:19:46 PM »

Sounds like bent valve


Sent from my iPhone using SoCal Jet Boats

What sounds like a bent valve???



Sent from my iPhone using SoCal Jet Boats

lifted250

  • Join Date: Sep 2014
  • *
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 719
  • Karma: +6/-0
  • Registered User
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2015, 03:22:19 PM »
That what I get for not paying attion


Sent from my iPhone using SoCal Jet Boats


Null


jimpen

  • Join Date: May 2014
  • *
  • SCJB Plus Member
  • Macho Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,874
  • Karma: +68/-0
  • Registered User
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 69
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2015, 07:15:27 PM »

He said he hit a wave the wrong way and swamp it
. sorry to hear that hope you get it back together before summer.


Sent from my iPhone using SoCal Jet Boats
  • Boat #1: 18 CP
  • Boat #2: Xcursion 23 RF

angermgmt

  • Join Date: Feb 2007
  • Location: Bullhead City AZ
  • *
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 471
  • Karma: +8/-0
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2015, 07:17:33 PM »
Hit a wave the wrong way?  How fast were they going backward to drown the exhaust and hydrolic the motor.


Sent from my iPhone using SoCal Jet Boats

RushinEliminator17

  • Join Date: Oct 2011
  • Location: Los Angeles, Ca
  • *
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 595
  • Karma: +8/-0
  • Registered User
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 2
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2015, 07:46:01 PM »

Hit a wave the wrong way?  How fast were they going backward to drown the exhaust and hydrolic the motor.


Sent from my iPhone using SoCal Jet Boats

The damage shown would never happen with water entering the cylinders!
It is also called hydro LOCK - not hydraulic!!!




Sent from my iPhone using SoCal Jet Boats

angermgmt

  • Join Date: Feb 2007
  • Location: Bullhead City AZ
  • *
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 471
  • Karma: +8/-0
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2015, 07:58:37 PM »
Pardon the slang...


Sent from my iPhone using SoCal Jet Boats

LakesOnly

  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Location: San Francisco Bay Area
  • *
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 517
  • Karma: +14/-0
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 2
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2015, 10:50:59 PM »
Can't 100% pin point from over here; it could be a few things.  The exhaust valve might have hung up on a tight valve guide, or a valve broke (are they the OEM 2-piece exhaust valves?), or maybe the boat operator caught air and over-revved it.  Or all of the above.  Given the snapshots, there are still some inconsistencies, such a the pushrod tips that look damaged on otherwise good cylinder, etc.  Is it possible that the engine was low on oil, or that the boat operator didn't pay attention to oil pressure? Jet boat oil pan?

In regards to some of your numbered points:

1) Obviously no exhaust valve head
2) The broken casting around the intake guide boss is not unusual. This is somewhat common on cast iron heads that have guides replaced. No biggie.
3) The mushroomed pushrod tips look like lack of lubrication but if so then they'd probably all be like that.
4) All flat tappet lifters are offset from the cam lobe so as to promote lifter rotation. Normal.
5) Are those Speedpro hypereutectic flat tops? Or OEM 460 forgings? (given the D9TE-AB cylinder block I considered they might be original Ford-by-TRW forged flat tops)

If the head with the valve damage isn't cracked then it's probably serviceable.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2015, 10:53:19 PM by LakesOnly »

We're on the web; click below:
High Flow Dynamics

RiverRat474

  • Join Date: Apr 2014
  • Location: Phoenix, Az
  • *
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 508
  • Karma: +15/-0
  • Registered User
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2015, 03:24:12 AM »
Can't 100% pin point from over here; it could be a few things.  The exhaust valve might have hung up on a tight valve guide, or a valve broke (are they the OEM 2-piece exhaust valves?), or maybe the boat operator caught air and over-revved it.  Or all of the above.  Given the snapshots, there are still some inconsistencies, such a the pushrod tips that look damaged on otherwise good cylinder, etc.  Is it possible that the engine was low on oil, or that the boat operator didn't pay attention to oil pressure? Jet boat oil pan?

In regards to some of your numbered points:

1) Obviously no exhaust valve head
2) The broken casting around the intake guide boss is not unusual. This is somewhat common on cast iron heads that have guides replaced. No biggie.
3) The mushroomed pushrod tips look like lack of lubrication but if so then they'd probably all be like that.
4) All flat tappet lifters are offset from the cam lobe so as to promote lifter rotation. Normal.
5) Are those Speedpro hypereutectic flat tops? Or OEM 460 forgings? (given the D9TE-AB cylinder block I considered they might be original Ford-by-TRW forged flat tops)

If the head with the valve damage isn't cracked then it's probably serviceable.
Thanks LakesOnly I would say yes the operator was not paying attention to the oil pressure gauge and would bet money he over-revved it a few times.
The PO said it has Manley Valves. Checked oil level before we left for the lake part of my pre trip inspection and it has a large capacity jet boat oil pan.

2. Broken casting being common is good to know.
3. Two of the other push rods hole where just starting to close as well.
4. It just looked odd one side slightly off center and the other side over half off center.
5. Piston # D3JE -6110-AA stock marine piston.
I'm so far behind I think I'm in first

LakesOnly

  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Location: San Francisco Bay Area
  • *
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 517
  • Karma: +14/-0
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 2
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2015, 08:56:03 AM »
Thanks LakesOnly I would say yes the operator was not paying attention to the oil pressure gauge and would bet money he over-revved it a few times.
The PO said it has Manley Valves. Checked oil level before we left for the lake part of my pre trip inspection and it has a large capacity jet boat oil pan.
...
5. Piston # D3JE -6110-AA stock marine piston.
If the head checks out okay, the damaged chamber can be blended.

If the piston is not collapsed at the skirt (from getting rocked over at TDC by the foreign debris) and all other piston features check out as well (ring lands, etc), then blend it out too. Those are forged TRW pistons that were used in the 1980s-up Ford King Cobra Marine 460s.







(Note the "TRW" embossed in the underside of the pistons, above picture.)

There's nothing special about the pistons in particular; it's just that they have not been made for 20 years and if you need one you're screwed. New flat tops will run perhaps $500 and up, plus rebalancing of your rotating assembly, etc.  So if you are on a budget/treating this as a repair instead of a rebuild, save the piston.  Also if you are going a different direction altogether or have only 7 good pistons remaining, save them for someone else who may want spares for their own engine (I get calls for those often).

We're on the web; click below:
High Flow Dynamics

RushinEliminator17

  • Join Date: Oct 2011
  • Location: Los Angeles, Ca
  • *
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 595
  • Karma: +8/-0
  • Registered User
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 2
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2015, 09:47:09 AM »
I have 7 of those pistons in excellent condition, Id be willing to sell if needed.


Sent from my iPhone using SoCal Jet Boats

RiverRat474

  • Join Date: Apr 2014
  • Location: Phoenix, Az
  • *
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 508
  • Karma: +15/-0
  • Registered User
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2015, 04:26:22 PM »
I have 7 of those pistons in excellent condition, Id be willing to sell if needed.


Sent from my iPhone using SoCal Jet Boats
thx I'm on a tight budget this time hopefully I will only need 1 if so would you sell individually and how much for 1.
I'm so far behind I think I'm in first

RushinEliminator17

  • Join Date: Oct 2011
  • Location: Los Angeles, Ca
  • *
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 595
  • Karma: +8/-0
  • Registered User
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 2
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2015, 06:59:33 PM »

thx I'm on a tight budget this time hopefully I will only need 1 if so would you sell individually and how much for 1.

No problem, I will sell them $40 each with the rod.


Sent from my iPhone using SoCal Jet Boats

RiverRat474

  • Join Date: Apr 2014
  • Location: Phoenix, Az
  • *
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 508
  • Karma: +15/-0
  • Registered User
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2015, 07:46:23 AM »
No problem, I will sell them $40 each with the rod.


Sent from my iPhone using SoCal Jet Boats
Sounds good will finish tering it down this weekend and see what I'm really dealing with fingers are crossed.
I'm so far behind I think I'm in first

RiverRat474

  • Join Date: Apr 2014
  • Location: Phoenix, Az
  • *
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 508
  • Karma: +15/-0
  • Registered User
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2015, 01:53:48 PM »
Ok got the pistons out pics:
1 are of the awesome #2 rod is very stiff but all is intacted.
2,3 #2 cylinder.
4,5 are #4 rod bearing with deep grove down the center.
6 shows the cam with a broken pin.
7,8 lifter missing a c-clip and 1 of the push rod tip broken in the lifter.

A couple of things I noticed there's no wrist-pin retaining clips are those optional and the cam had a lot of end play. Not sure how much need to get a dial indicator, but it looked to be and 1/8 to 3/16.

Anyone know of a good machine shop in Phoenix area. What all should I be taking to the machine shop and what services will I be needing. Any suggestions would be appreciated. This will be my first rebuild being solo just don't want to miss anything. Thanks
I'm so far behind I think I'm in first

RiverRat474

  • Join Date: Apr 2014
  • Location: Phoenix, Az
  • *
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 508
  • Karma: +15/-0
  • Registered User
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2015, 02:22:54 PM »
Ok got the pistons out pics:
1 are of the awesome #2 rod is very stiff but all is intacted.
2,3 #2 cylinder.
4,5 are #4 rod bearing with deep grove down the center.
6 shows the cam with a broken pin.
7,8 lifter missing a c-clip and 1 of the push rod tip broken in the lifter.

A couple of things I noticed there's no wrist-pin retaining clips are those optional and the cam had a lot of end play. Not sure how much need to get a dial indicator, but it looked to be and 1/8 to 3/16.

Anyone know of a good machine shop in Phoenix area. What all should I be taking to the machine shop and what services will I be needing. Any suggestions would be appreciated. This will be my first rebuild being solo just don't want to miss anything. Thanks
pics didn't load
I'm so far behind I think I'm in first

RiverRat474

  • Join Date: Apr 2014
  • Location: Phoenix, Az
  • *
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 508
  • Karma: +15/-0
  • Registered User
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2015, 02:27:56 PM »
Last 4
I'm so far behind I think I'm in first


Null


 


Website Security Test
Powered by EzPortal

Null

anything
Website Security Test