Locking dizzy and timing

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freshmeat

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« on: January 09, 2019, 08:11:41 PM »
Iím almost done building my 454, I have the little plastic piece to lock out the hei distributor. I also installed a Mr Gasket timing tape to the damper pulley. Here in the next couple weeks Iíll be firing it up to break in the cam. When I got to set the timing what is the best way to do it. I guess Iíve heard set at 36 degrees at 3500 rpm and leave it there. Iíd like to keep this simple if possible. Thanks guys
  • Boat #1: 1979 Sleekcraft Rebel
1979 Sleekcraft Rebel 454 BBC



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« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2019, 01:35:23 PM »
Rather than typing all this out, I will just quote Don Zig.  This is the procedure that I use.  You can use an ohm meter instead of a buzz box.  I would start with less timing (28-30) and powertune for best timing.  Engines make a lot of heat on initial break in, I wouldn't want to risk detonation.

http://donzig.com/timing.html

BASICS

1. If the ignition has points; it fires when the points open. This is true for both battery operated and magneto ignitions.

2. A buzzer is a simple device that indicates just when the points open.

3. Advance is thought of in two different ways; the ignition and the crankshaft. Racers deal in real time or crankshaft degrees, while engineers and servicemen deal in half time or ignition degrees as the ignition is one half engine speed. Racers also deal in total degrees at the crank. If you have an ignition with automatic advance, you have some kind of system to advance or retard the ignition. If your ignition is "locked out", this means there is not an automatic system and the movement is "0" degrees.

4. If you want to run 36 degrees and your ignition is locked out, you must set all advance on the crank pulley. If you want to run 36 degrees and your system has automatic advance, that advance must be determined before you start. For ease, let's say your ignition has 20 degrees automatic and you want to run 36 degrees total - 36 degrees subtract 20 degrees equals 16 degrees. By simple addition and subtraction, you can see the crank must be set on 16 degrees B.T.D.C. If your crank is not degreed, it should be. You can buy a timing tape at most speed shops for different size balancers (or crank pulley). Some machine shops have the capability of turning and degreeing your balancer for a small charge. If you cannot find a tape or a machine shop, then you might do it yourself. Find where TDC is and mark it exactly on the pulley. Next, with a good tape ruler, measure the balancer or hub circumference and divide by 360, then multiply the answer by 10, 20, 30, 40 or what ever marks you wish to mark on the pulley. If you have a stock balancer, do not assume the "0" degree is at the right location. Many times these marks have turned on the hub and are no longer accurate.

TIMING

1. Determine the total amount of degrees you wish to run in the engine.

2. Determine the total amount of degrees your ignition

3. Through additions & subtractions, find out where to set the crank BTDC, and do it now!

4. Find out where the number 1 cylinder segment is in the cap and mark on the outside case of the ignition with a marker.

5. Find out where last cylinder segment in the firing order is on the cap and mark that on the outside of the ignition case.

6. Line up all intermediate oil pump drives and gear drive so as to place the rotor approximately ÔŅĹ of the way between #1 cylinder segment and the last segment in the firing order when the ignition is firmly seated on the manifold or block surface.

7. At this time you should check the play between the intermediate shaft and the ignition or the block and the thrust face on the gear. Some play or clearance must be present. If not when you tighten your ignition down, you might be jacking your oil pump gear through the bottom plate of your pump.

8. Put the retaining clamp on now and just snug up the bolt / nut retainer so you can move the ignition with a slight amount of resistance.

9. Hook up the buzzer to the primary wire and a good ground and turn it on. The buzzer may be buzzing now or it may not , don't worry at this time.

10. Determine which way the rotor rotates and hold back against it with your thumb and apply a few ounces of pressure.

11. Turn the outside case of the ignition against the rotation until the buzzer just stops. You might have to do this 2 - 3 times to get the feel of it, but the mag will fire just as the buzzer stops (this is when the points open).

12. Tighten up the ignition retainer bolt / nut until the ignition will not turn.

13. To check if your right there in the ball park ignition wise, reach up and grasp the rotor and turn it the way you did before. It should quit buzzing and now buzz with the alternate application and reduction of pressure on the rotor.
"I want to roll with my brother Joe" - Joe Bateman - January 29, 1950 ~ November 27, 2013

freshmeat

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« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2019, 07:09:32 PM »
Wow, I appreciate that but itís way beyond what I know. I may just get it running good and go with it. I have a couple months or so so maybe Iíll try to figure this out.
  • Boat #1: 1979 Sleekcraft Rebel
1979 Sleekcraft Rebel 454 BBC

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« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2019, 07:47:11 AM »
For a conservative tune, set the balancer at 10į btdc. That, along with 20į already in the distributor, will be at 30į total.

Distributors may vary, but are usually 20-22į (mechanical advance)

Dan'l
CJ/RR 212...under construction  "Pistol Annie"

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« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2019, 09:43:56 AM »
Bare with me. So your saying once I get it fired up at idle use a timing light and set the pointer on 10 degrees? Basically turn the dizzy until Iím at 10 degrees with the timing light?
  • Boat #1: 1979 Sleekcraft Rebel
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« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2019, 10:31:39 AM »
Yes, or static time the engine at 10į. (Preferred)

Dan'l
CJ/RR 212...under construction  "Pistol Annie"

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« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2019, 02:38:09 PM »
Are you locking out the distributor?  There won't be any advance if you lock it out.
"I want to roll with my brother Joe" - Joe Bateman - January 29, 1950 ~ November 27, 2013

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« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2019, 03:10:10 PM »
Yes I guess so. What I did was use a plastic piece that I bought off the internet that replaces the vacuum thing that goes on it. You know what fellas  Iím so confused on this locking out and distributor stuff. My last jey boat had the vacuum canister thing on it but no vacuum line hooked to it and it worked good enough for us. I donít know what to do.
  • Boat #1: 1979 Sleekcraft Rebel
1979 Sleekcraft Rebel 454 BBC

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« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2019, 05:28:52 PM »
Please post a picture of what you have.
"I want to roll with my brother Joe" - Joe Bateman - January 29, 1950 ~ November 27, 2013

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« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2019, 05:52:24 PM »
I got it from summit racing. It replaces the vacuum canister actuator thing on the hei distributor.
  • Boat #1: 1979 Sleekcraft Rebel
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« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2019, 06:37:29 PM »
Iím using a stock Gm hei distributor.
  • Boat #1: 1979 Sleekcraft Rebel
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« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2019, 07:38:50 PM »
So it will retain the mechanical advance and only eliminate the vacuum advance mechanism.

Follow what Dan'l suggested.

Sorry for the confusion.
"I want to roll with my brother Joe" - Joe Bateman - January 29, 1950 ~ November 27, 2013

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« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2019, 07:49:03 PM »
No, thanks for all the advice. Damn man my son and I appreciate it very much. We need the help and all this helps. Have a good evening fellas.
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« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2019, 09:29:55 AM »
For static timing:

1. Rotate engine normal direction (clockwise on balancer) To 10į btdc on #1.

NOTE: Be sure its on #1, and not on #6.

2. With distributor in, align the "star wheel" with ignition pick-up. (Point to point) Then tighten distributor hold down clamp.

At this position, the engine is at the STATIC (not moving) point of ignition.

3. Install rotor, cap and plug wires.

4. Prime carb, And let 'er rip (fire in the hole)

Done correctly, this will be within a degree or two either way, and close enough to break in the cam and lifters.

No more twisting the dizzy to get it to fire up (bad for cam and lifter break-in)

Hope this helps

Dan'l
CJ/RR 212...under construction  "Pistol Annie"

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« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2019, 05:10:15 PM »
Got it!!!! Thanks man. When I get ready to fire it up Iíll give you a call and if you donít mind we can run through a couple check lists. We sure do appreciate the help.
  • Boat #1: 1979 Sleekcraft Rebel
1979 Sleekcraft Rebel 454 BBC

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« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2019, 07:52:22 PM »
Well we got it fired up!!!!! Ran it for around 20 minutes at 2000 to 2500 rpm to break cam in. Now Iím going to put some timing tape on pulley. I read somewhere to set it at 35 degrees at 3500 rpm. This sound rite?
  • Boat #1: 1979 Sleekcraft Rebel
1979 Sleekcraft Rebel 454 BBC

freshmeat

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« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2019, 08:13:01 PM »
I forgot to mention all I have is the standard timing light that doesnít have the adjusting knob.
  • Boat #1: 1979 Sleekcraft Rebel
1979 Sleekcraft Rebel 454 BBC

 


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