Headers vs Logs and Snails

  • 32 Replies
  • 18035 Views

ralph

  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
  • *
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 41
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Registered User
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
« on: August 22, 2011, 05:53:08 PM »
Just wondering how much power is lost/gained in the swap. I'm rebuilding my blower motor, a 454 and 6/71 Weiand set up for about 7lbs boost, 600-700hp. The thing is so LOUD I'm considering Logs and Snails to quiet it down some, and get my family more interested in coming along. I'm not after every last horsepower, just an impressive looking boat with lots of oomph. I've even thought about cutting the collectors off the Bassetts and replacing them with big honkin' mufflers. Any ideas?
Ralph


Null


1975_Challenger_461

  • Join Date: Jan 2011
  • Location: Oceanside, CA
  • *
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 229
  • Karma: +1/-0
  • Registered User
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 2
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2011, 06:13:21 PM »
Are you running baffles in your header tips?
"I'm a simple man....
I like lolie pops in my mouth and butter in my ass."

Your Mom

  • Join Date: Feb 2007
  • Location: san diego
  • *
  • Macho Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,784
  • Karma: +20/-0
    • View Profile
    • Made in the Shade
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 64
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2011, 06:16:10 PM »
Through transom header....

ralph

  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
  • *
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 41
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Registered User
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2011, 07:42:44 PM »
Thru transom headers would still be hot,and how loud are they? Yeah, I've got $15 Speedway "Auger mufflers". They quiet it down some, and probably stifle it quite abit too. Maybe those Logs wouldn't be much different?

IRRebel

  • Join Date: Dec 2008
  • Location: Casa Grande, Arizona
  • *
  • Informative Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,635
  • Karma: +16/-0
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 12
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2011, 09:39:16 PM »
I'll be perfectly honest with you, blowers do not really gonna care much which exhaust you use from a "real life" performance standpoint. You can split hairs on a dyno, but in reality we use these things at a multitude of different elevation levels, quality of fuels, etc and I know none of us tunes for that routinely either that would net more HP gain than the headers vs logs scenario.  Yes, TT headers are every bit as loud as OT headers when I tried them on Moo.  Maybe quieter in the NWZ and at low cruise speeds, but WFO or 3000 RPM or so? just as noisy, just as hot, etc.

At the end of the day, if the logs are quiet, cool, and make you happy, I don't think headers are going to make the MAYBE 25 or so HP increase you'd get worth it compared to the aggravation of them on a blown engine. I would, however, make sure you cut off the ends of the snails to the 3 1/2" step and use 3 1/2" or 4" tips.

I don't think thats a bad move at all. I got more than my share of header burns, and if you look around while out on the water, I see less and less blown motors with headers and zoomies than I used to. Everyone going to Center-risers and logs, and I AM seeing more blown engines out there also.  :thumbup:

Ray
"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways totally worn out shouting 'Holy Shit what a ride!"---Crewcheif22 AKA Keith

ka0tyk

  • Join Date: Aug 2010
  • Location: huntington beach, ca
  • *
  • Informative Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,703
  • Karma: +30/-0
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2011, 10:00:45 PM »
i hated the way logs and snails looked and performance... i dont like over transom headers...  so i went center rise.  best of both worlds. 



theres some good deals out there, just keep your eyes open.  when all said and done i spent about $700 total after the manifolds, risers, and SS piping/cutting/welding and transom rings. they look great out in the open and they're also safe under a hatch, TT headers are not.  and TT's will burn the shit out of you if you even get near em.

IRRebel

  • Join Date: Dec 2008
  • Location: Casa Grande, Arizona
  • *
  • Informative Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,635
  • Karma: +16/-0
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 12
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2011, 10:27:12 PM »
You wanna see badass? I'm kicking myself I didn't get a pic of it. I thought I did, but wasn't on the camera. Anyway, Hallet Dave's new setup is cool as friggin hell, retains the rear jump seats, and would work VERY well with a blower engine in that thing!

Ray
"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways totally worn out shouting 'Holy Shit what a ride!"---Crewcheif22 AKA Keith

Duke

  • Join Date: Apr 2011
  • Location: Burbank California
  • *
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 102
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Registered User
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2011, 02:32:16 AM »
hallat dave? rootbeer colored old school hallet? with the shag carpet? wonder if its the same person.
1984 advantage jet boat 454 berkeley

Nordie

  • Join Date: Dec 2007
  • Location: Las Vegas,NV
  • *
  • Team Member
  • Informative Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,132
  • Karma: +13/-0
  • never tattoo unlucky on your body, even if that is your luck it will come back ten fold!
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2011, 06:29:16 AM »
Yep thats hallett dave, and your not! I would say a center rise or water jacketed headers like lightning would be the way to go! Snails are going to take away some power and then its going to sound like every other jet boat

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S 4G


If im not posting..I'm pooping!

Your Mom

  • Join Date: Feb 2007
  • Location: san diego
  • *
  • Macho Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,784
  • Karma: +20/-0
    • View Profile
    • Made in the Shade
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 64
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2011, 07:06:47 AM »
They are all loud at WOT....just as the wind passing your ears.  If noise is an issue cover the engine with a hatch and wear earplugs.

ralph

  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
  • *
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 41
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Registered User
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2011, 08:51:54 AM »
Looks like I'm in the market for logs n' snails. I kinda like the old style way they look. Any one brand flow better than another? Any I should particularly avoid?
Ralph

Brendella Pickle

  • Join Date: May 2010
  • Location: Las Vegas Nevada
  • *
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 663
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • The Boogeyman
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 3
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2011, 09:48:57 AM »
i hated the way logs and snails looked and performance... i dont like over transom headers...  so i went center rise.  best of both worlds. 



theres some good deals out there, just keep your eyes open.  when all said and done i spent about $700 total after the manifolds, risers, and SS piping/cutting/welding and transom rings. they look great out in the open and they're also safe under a hatch, TT headers are not.  and TT's will burn the shit out of you if you even get near em.

Correct me if I'm wrong here... Didn't your wife (or girlfriend) get a serious burn from your's?

ka0tyk

  • Join Date: Aug 2010
  • Location: huntington beach, ca
  • *
  • Informative Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,703
  • Karma: +30/-0
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2011, 10:27:48 AM »
Correct me if I'm wrong here... Didn't your wife (or girlfriend) get a serious burn from your's?

yeah but that was due to the guy that i have weld em up chopping off the section that holds the water in the riser.  thats all fixed now and they're as cool as a cucumber.  also changed the water flow, in from the bottom rear and out of the top front of the manifolds so the whole thing fills up with water. before there was an air pocket at the top and water just skimmed the bottom.  these things didnt come with an instruction manual and it seems like everyone has em plumbed up differently.

ralph

  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
  • *
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 41
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Registered User
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2011, 11:35:11 AM »
I've already had two people get burns from my OT headers, and one of 'em was me! So.... any preference of log manufacturers, or are they all pretty much the same?

Your Mom

  • Join Date: Feb 2007
  • Location: san diego
  • *
  • Macho Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,784
  • Karma: +20/-0
    • View Profile
    • Made in the Shade
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 64
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2011, 12:27:11 PM »
Harman marine are very stout....the water passages go up to ports. Harman marine snails also have a step down. You can cut the first step off to give 3 1/2 and add a small piece of 3 1/2 to have a 4" tip. I went 3 1/2 with 3 1/2 ss angled tips. The butterfly's dont last and the 4" ss tips have a better internal metal flapper option. Ask around...might score a cheap set...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Harman-Marine-BB-Chevy-Exhaust-Manifolds-Never-Used-/200643677380?pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear&hash=item2eb74b8cc4
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HARMAN-MARINE-EXHAUST-RISERS-2-7-8-OUTLET-/160638762772?pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear&hash=item2566d0ff14

ka0tyk

  • Join Date: Aug 2010
  • Location: huntington beach, ca
  • *
  • Informative Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,703
  • Karma: +30/-0
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2011, 01:19:37 PM »
anything use make sure you can pressure test and check for signs of salt.   :thumbup:

http://www.brainbox.us/misc/IMG_20110319_170154.jpg

IRRebel

  • Join Date: Dec 2008
  • Location: Casa Grande, Arizona
  • *
  • Informative Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,635
  • Karma: +16/-0
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 12
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2011, 01:58:45 PM »
I've already had two people get burns from my OT headers, and one of 'em was me! So.... any preference of log manufacturers, or are they all pretty much the same?

This for a Chebbie?



These are very nice, polished, and if you notice, staggered length so the snails are even and the same length hose used on each side.

I also have a set of OT pipes for these, not the best, but I've definately seen worse, that are same length for use with these if you're interested.
 (the pipe on the bottom. The top one is from another set to show how most are staggered for std logs)



Beware, the OT pipes part gets just as hot as headers, although the logs are cool when running.

Ray

PS, every snail I've seen can be cut off to the 3 1/2" step. I have had Harmans, Hardins, even got a pair of nice Nicsons here that can, just FYI
« Last Edit: August 23, 2011, 02:27:20 PM by IRRebel »
"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways totally worn out shouting 'Holy Shit what a ride!"---Crewcheif22 AKA Keith

Your Mom

  • Join Date: Feb 2007
  • Location: san diego
  • *
  • Macho Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,784
  • Karma: +20/-0
    • View Profile
    • Made in the Shade
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 64
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2011, 02:19:19 PM »
In most cases you cannot use a exhaust port gasket on logs but the Harman you can and I do now and have had the other cheap type. Nothing but issues. Bolts comming loose, cracks and exhaust leaks. A good set of felpros on harmans and forget about em...well, give em a polish from time to time....Also try and find a set that is seperated already for inspection and ad some new gaskets from log to snail. Jim brock(on this site)makes em. They are the best period. The green standard ones suck ass and will not last.

ka0tyk

  • Join Date: Aug 2010
  • Location: huntington beach, ca
  • *
  • Informative Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,703
  • Karma: +30/-0
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2011, 04:28:24 PM »
In most cases you cannot use a exhaust port gasket on logs but the Harman you can and I do now and have had the other cheap type. Nothing but issues. Bolts comming loose, cracks and exhaust leaks. A good set of felpros on harmans and forget about em...well, give em a polish from time to time....Also try and find a set that is seperated already for inspection and ad some new gaskets from log to snail. Jim brock(on this site)makes em. They are the best period. The green standard ones suck ass and will not last.

i just used some high temp silicone on my logs and my manifolds... maybe once im done ripping things apart and putting em back together every week ill slap some exhaust gaskets on it. 

N2GLOCK

  • Join Date: Oct 2010
  • Location: Burbank, CA.
  • *
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 207
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2011, 01:07:21 PM »
A good friend has a really nice set of Hardin logs for a bbc. No snails. If you're interested, I can put you in contact with him as I know he's looking to sell them. In my quest for more hp I'm definitely goin with headers. The setup that ka0tyk has on his boat looks real nice but I am not as mechanically inclined as he is. $700.00 for his setup is a great price. I'm leaning toward getting a set of wet Bassett or Rewarder o/t headers and having them ceramic coated to keep the temps down. With a good set of mufflers and the water, I think that the noise will be tolerable. However, I don't run a blower.

Your Mom

  • Join Date: Feb 2007
  • Location: san diego
  • *
  • Macho Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,784
  • Karma: +20/-0
    • View Profile
    • Made in the Shade
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 64
« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2011, 01:58:41 PM »
Theres always header wrap/tape(for your headers). They look cool and come with benefits....

IRRebel

  • Join Date: Dec 2008
  • Location: Casa Grande, Arizona
  • *
  • Informative Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,635
  • Karma: +16/-0
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 12
« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2011, 02:12:09 PM »
Theres always header wrap/tape(for your headers). They look cool and come with benefits....

Where in the world does THAT look cool? or even work on a boat? Wrapping your headers up like a 3rd degree burn victim? Really?   :screwy:

On the other, yes, ceramic coating DOES help, but burns are still inevitable with them. Doesn't cool them THAT much, just protects the finish and lowers the exit exhaust temps.

I think you're on the right track. Especially with a blown engine. Once you install these, prove my point with your results............ :thumbup:

Ray
"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways totally worn out shouting 'Holy Shit what a ride!"---Crewcheif22 AKA Keith

N2GLOCK

  • Join Date: Oct 2010
  • Location: Burbank, CA.
  • *
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 207
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2011, 03:06:52 PM »
Where in the world does THAT look cool? or even work on a boat? Wrapping your headers up like a 3rd degree burn victim? Really?   :screwy:

On the other, yes, ceramic coating DOES help, but burns are still inevitable with them. Doesn't cool them THAT much, just protects the finish and lowers the exit exhaust temps.

I think you're on the right track. Especially with a blown engine. Once you install these, prove my point with your results............ :thumbup:

Ray

I disagree with you sir on the subject of ceramic coating. Several years ago we installed a set of plain Hooker headers on a customers '73 Bronco w/ a 302 Those things got so hot that it melted his plug wires and almost caught his carpet on fire. We pulled them off and he had them coated. Put the headers back on and problem solved. I have ceramic coated headers on my '70 el camino and I am amazed as to how cool they stay. However, I do agree with you on the header wrap situation. Not only does that stuff look ugly, but it also traps moisture and eventually the headers will rot.

IRRebel

  • Join Date: Dec 2008
  • Location: Casa Grande, Arizona
  • *
  • Informative Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,635
  • Karma: +16/-0
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 12
« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2011, 12:36:41 AM »
I call BS on the ceramic coating. ( might as well call it crematic coatin for us on boats)   :thumbup:

Yes it HELPS,  but there is no way on God's green earth it cools down enough to stop burns or any other problems we see with them.

You show me otherwise in normal boating applications, and I will show you my privates in town square, Pheonix at High noon.........

Ray
"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways totally worn out shouting 'Holy Shit what a ride!"---Crewcheif22 AKA Keith

ka0tyk

  • Join Date: Aug 2010
  • Location: huntington beach, ca
  • *
  • Informative Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,703
  • Karma: +30/-0
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2011, 12:44:41 AM »


my gf's leg is proof enough.  exhaust = hot.

 


Website Security Test
Powered by EzPortal

anything
Website Security Test