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Author Topic: holley 4160 600 stumped!!!!!!!!  (Read 4526 times)

mobboss

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holley 4160 600 stumped!!!!!!!!
« on: June 20, 2011, 10:07:20 PM »
ok not touched a carb in about 4 years!!!  so im a little stumped,some help would be awesome. fires up right away, wont idle under 3000 rpms . ok so i looked down the carb when its running , and its dripping gas from the boost ventures, almost like the fuel bowl is under pressure????   my first thought is to much fuell pressure from the pump???? thoughts ideas???  please help.
  • Boat #1: 74 kona makai
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GT Jets

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Re: holley 4160 600 stumped!!!!!!!!
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2011, 10:55:40 PM »
ok not touched a carb in about 4 years!!!  so im a little stumped,some help would be awesome. fires up right away, wont idle under 3000 rpms . ok so i looked down the carb when its running , and its dripping gas from the boost ventures, almost like the fuel bowl is under pressure????   my first thought is to much fuell pressure from the pump???? thoughts ideas???  please help.

Hung float or stuck needle and seat...Whack it with a big screwdriver handle and see if it miraculously cures itself...

Called a "Percussive maintenance"... O0

GT
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

HDriderTH

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Re: holley 4160 600 stumped!!!!!!!!
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2011, 10:56:25 PM »
check the float level  ;)

'82 Sanger Bubble deck, Blown 454....V-drive

mobboss

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Re: holley 4160 600 stumped!!!!!!!!
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2011, 05:17:16 PM »
have done both of those , did not work.
  • Boat #1: 74 kona makai
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ka0tyk

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Re: holley 4160 600 stumped!!!!!!!!
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2011, 05:24:42 PM »
what is your fuel pressure?

mobboss

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Re: holley 4160 600 stumped!!!!!!!!
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2011, 08:43:17 PM »
not quite sure stock fuel pump for a mercruiser, with a quadrajet carb????
  • Boat #1: 74 kona makai
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electrowoman

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Re: holley 4160 600 stumped!!!!!!!!
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2011, 05:38:52 PM »
Bad needle and seat or the butterflys are hanging open to far.   That's if it's the secondaries you're
seeing the fuel leaking from.   

If it's the primary side all of the above and how's your choke plate sitting?

Vacuum draws the fuel....


IRRebel

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Re: holley 4160 600 stumped!!!!!!!!
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2011, 11:51:47 PM »


Actually, not so much on a 4160. It just has no secondary accelerator pumps and the vacuum control merely allows the throttle mechanism to engage the secondary throttle plate when conditions are "right" . There is NO secondary metering plate, per se, on a 4160, as the 4150 has. Totally different animal to tune. But YES, Correct on Vacuum drawing the fuel, but so is  the 4150. So many HATE the 4160 and declare the 4150 the "way to go" it drives me crazy. 

Post some pics of what you have. I kinda had this on Pickle when I first bought it. Turns out, the, well, whats a good polite word for "jackass"?.........anyway, mounted a screw into the mechanism to make it act like a "mechanical secondary"  Seen this mod on the net as well. Not a good idea.

4150's have their place. 4160's do as well. Sounds to me, and just thinking out loud from reading this a few times, That it is either a carb linkage problem, as Electrowoman pointed out, not allowing the carb to return to "idle"  or "reset" state, OR a needle seat problem. Not much else can cause secondary problems on a 4160, short of warped bowls, throttle plates, vacuum leaks, etc. The normal crap we deal with on any of the Holley's.

Please get this, that BOTH the 4150 (Double Pumper) and the 4160 HAVE primary accelerator pumps. What they do is when the throttle is Mashed, off or near idle, or "hit aggressiveley" is dump a bunch of fuel in nearly immediately. The 4150 has the ability to do this even on the mechanically operated secondaries (Meaning it CAN do both at the same time, if necessary). The 4160 does not have this ability. The metering blocks on a 4150 are there to SPECIFICALLY measure and meter fuel on both ends of the carb. Not all four corners, that's what a Dominator does. Why the 4150 requires a LOT of plug reading, and tuning.

4160 works on a VERY different principle. Secondarys can ONLY open, controlled by the diaphragm and spring, when vacuum is where you want it. The butterflys will then open relative to throttle position, BUT fuel will only be introduced as vacuum says it's necessary, based on the spring used on the secondaries (Hopefully set up after a few plug readings), the jets used,  and vacuum available.

Understand that under a mashed and held full throttle, a 4150 acts the exact same way as a 4160 after the first few seconds. Fuel will NOT be pulled from either bowl unless vacuum exists to suck it out. The accelerator pumps only exist for increasing throttle position changes. No matter how quickly. Yes, the 4150 shines from idle to balls out, because it has two, can open the secondaries imeediately, and...........IF the engine vacuum supports it.........suck the fuel from both bowls. The Dominator does the same thing, but on all four corners being able to be tuned independantly.

Long way around your problem, but you got something leaking from the carb Needle/seat area is where I'd be looking on the secondary side. Could be warped bowl, warped or bent main housing. Could actually just be an old Nitrophyl float so soaked it never actually floats and holds the needle open all the time.

Ray

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways totally worn out shouting 'Holy Shit what a ride!"---Crewcheif22 AKA Keith

Nordie

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Re: Re: holley 4160 600 stumped!!!!!!!!
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2011, 06:57:23 AM »
not quite sure stock fuel pump for a mercruiser, with a quadrajet carb????

Im confused now...you say 4160 but above you say quadra jet....soooo???


If im not posting..I'm pooping!

electrowoman

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Re: holley 4160 600 stumped!!!!!!!!
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2011, 07:08:40 AM »
I agree with the rebal, probably the needle and seat.

 If you set the float height and the fuel didn't continue to run out the hole then that probably isn't the needle and seat.   
 I bought a used 850 vac secondary marine carb the guy couldn't get working right.   Flooding at idle was the description.

Somehow the linkage that closes the secondary butterfly AND one throttle plate were slightly bent.   

That held the secondaries open about 1/8 inch which was enough to draw fuel.

Just sayin look at everything.   

GT Jets

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Re: Re: holley 4160 600 stumped!!!!!!!!
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2011, 07:52:14 AM »
Im confused now...you say 4160 but above you say quadra jet....soooo???


C'mon Nordie, we all know you confuse easily..... ;D

He is saying it was the same fuel pump it had when there was a Quadrajet carb on the engine, now it is a 4160...

Follow the bouncing ball my man. ;)

GT
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

GT Jets

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Re: holley 4160 600 stumped!!!!!!!!
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2011, 07:55:50 AM »
not quite sure stock fuel pump for a mercruiser, with a quadrajet carb????


Put the Quadrajet back on if you still have it...Hands down the best possible carburetor for that I/O unless you have changed the camshaft. Mercruiser had a winning combo with the spread bore and the mild cam combo.

Just my opinion. BTW we have two I/O boats, one has a Carter AFB (labeled under Weber) and one has the Quadrajet, they both run tits LaRue...

GT
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

mobboss

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Re: holley 4160 600 stumped!!!!!!!!
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2011, 08:51:30 AM »
when i bought this boat a couple of valley boys got ahold of it!!!! (no offence) but really had no clue about mechanical or electrical work. well to make a long story short, they left the air cleaner off of it and other things and the carb rusted!!! its gone !!! maybe good for some parts ,but thats it! so i bought a holley. i like holley easy to work on and i have a ton of stuff for them that i saved over the years. and yes i do plan on a few minor hopups intake , cam . just trying to get it to run right , so i can reaaly see what i i have right now.
  • Boat #1: 74 kona makai
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electrowoman

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Re: holley 4160 600 stumped!!!!!!!!
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2011, 09:08:04 AM »
 :-[  I hope that doesn't mean water  IN  the ENGINE  too. 

mobboss

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Re: holley 4160 600 stumped!!!!!!!!
« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2011, 01:20:58 PM »
nope oil looks good! and just to clarify it is dripping in the primary side not secondary side. accelerator works perfect! all linkage looks good and does not appear to be bent or man handled.
  • Boat #1: 74 kona makai
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electrowoman

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Re: holley 4160 600 stumped!!!!!!!!
« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2011, 01:27:29 PM »
Ok, now we are narrowing it down.   For the front to bleed, power valve blown.   Float sticking, needle and seat failure.    Did you remove the sight pug from the bowl and set the level?

If the answer to the level was yes I would go right to changing the power valve.

mobboss

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Re: holley 4160 600 stumped!!!!!!!!
« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2011, 02:34:20 PM »
yep set the float level first thing! power valve was brand new. going to check it out anyway. needle and seat were too. walked thur the whole carb before i put it on. which is why i thought it maybe fuel pressure?
  • Boat #1: 74 kona makai
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IRRebel

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Re: holley 4160 600 stumped!!!!!!!!
« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2011, 04:32:00 PM »
yep set the float level first thing! power valve was brand new. going to check it out anyway. needle and seat were too. walked thur the whole carb before i put it on. which is why i thought it maybe fuel pressure?

Could be fuel pressure, maybe. You've narrowed it down quite a bit, actually, but to be honest, too much fuel pressure would probably lead to uncontrollable float levels. So I seriously doubt that's it.

I'd be pulling the primary fuel bowl and metering block and checking the metering block and main housing for straightness with a machinist's block or rule at least, then checking for gasket failure, etc. Sounds to me like fuel is getting into the air bleeds or idle circuits, now that we know it's the primary's. Hopefully the secondary side is all ok.

Ray
"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways totally worn out shouting 'Holy Shit what a ride!"---Crewcheif22 AKA Keith

electrowoman

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Re: holley 4160 600 stumped!!!!!!!!
« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2011, 04:34:59 PM »
If the power valve is good it may be the wrong one or a vacuum leak is letting it open.

What is your idle vacuum and which power valve is in there?  The power valve
number should be half your idle vacuum reading.

No torn gaskets, clean carb gasket surfaces?

The fuel should come out the bowl sight plug and  also come out the bowl
overflow tube if the fuel pump is over riding the needle and seat.

 I'm betting it's the power valve though.

Be it the wrong one, a vacuum leaking allowing it to open early or what ever.

That just seems to be the area to focus on to me.

Good luck.




GT Jets

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Re: holley 4160 600 stumped!!!!!!!!
« Reply #19 on: July 03, 2011, 04:48:27 PM »
You might also look into possibly having the incorrect metering plate gasket in place...This has happened to me before...

GT
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

mobboss

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Re: holley 4160 600 stumped!!!!!!!!
« Reply #20 on: July 03, 2011, 07:08:22 PM »
thank you all!!! those are things i will check!!! the metering gasket is the right one the metering plate is in good shape. not sure about the power valve.base gasket is new ,and in perfect shape.
  • Boat #1: 74 kona makai
  • Boat #2: 71 schiada v drive

 


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