Piston swapping

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2savage4you

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« on: May 06, 2008, 04:15:33 PM »
Whats all involved with it? Disassemble , press off/on the piston, rebalance everything. Hone the cylinders again? install . Is that about it or is there more to it......

2sav



pw_Tony

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« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2008, 04:20:34 PM »
Measuring, checking the cylinder to piston clearence, and then determining how much work needs to be done from there. The piston balance isn't nearly as critical as the crankshaft balance, so if you get new pistons and they are close to the old ones, it's ok, not perfect, but good.

2savage4you

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« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2008, 04:25:34 PM »
Im thinking about doing a swap and if its too much involved and i need alot of machine work i might just build another engine and say F it.....


2sav

pw_Tony

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« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2008, 04:26:56 PM »
Im thinking about doing a swap and if its too much involved and i need alot of machine work i might just build another engine and say F it.....


2sav

It's one of those, "it all depends" kind of deals  ;D

beerjet

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« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2008, 04:35:08 PM »
Im thinking about doing a swap and if its too much involved and i need alot of machine work i might just build another engine and say F it.....


2sav
Is it just me or has the build recently gone in reverse  ??? get a game plan and stick with it

-beerjet-
i dont but im all for stuffin shit in her ass to make her go away :-*

2savage4you

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« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2008, 04:50:42 PM »
Is it just me or has the build recently gone in reverse  ??? get a game plan and stick with it

-beerjet-

Well remember im a broke ass jet boater ;D and im trying to decide what is the best way to go about this...Should i say f it and run CAST pistons?  Swap them out?........Build a motor that i know it will last.......Too many options and too much time on my hands :banghead:

2sav

pw_Tony

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« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2008, 05:11:51 PM »
Well remember im a broke ass jet boater ;D and im trying to decide what is the best way to go about this...Should i say f it and run CAST pistons?  Swap them out?........Build a motor that i know it will last.......Too many options and too much time on my hands :banghead:

2sav

How do you know they are cast?

76 Bonneville

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« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2008, 05:13:17 PM »
Cast pistons are fine, just get it done. Build your dream motor next winter. C'mon its May already, and you're so close.

2savage4you

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« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2008, 05:24:48 PM »
Cast pistons are fine, just get it done. Build your dream motor next winter. C'mon its May already, and you're so close.


I am so tempted to do just that, but i am worried my season would end sooner then expected.... I could easily drop in a smaller cam , run the peanut heads and get the boat wet. Who know's the boat might even run good, its a light lay up. But i dont want to be the guy that cant keep up with the crop ;D  But then again , sitting on the beach sucks too......

How do you know they are cast?

RyanBrindle had a set of cast pistons in my shed, we compared them to one another.......Identicle (sp)
Except his were FERDS and mine are Cheby's

2sav

pw_Tony

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« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2008, 05:36:56 PM »
I would pull the pan off, and check to see if there are part numbers on the bottom of those pistons, and see if you can find out what they are. Some forged have the rough casting in the valve notches as well

429heads

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« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2008, 05:41:26 PM »
Is this motor 2 bolt or 4 bolt
is crank forged or cast under size 10=20 under new or used
forged rod or stock rods rebuilt or  have good bolts or
have stock rod bolts.
Do you know if motor is balanced and how?
is the cam in it the one you would use to big to small what
what berg were used in motor. name brand or re builder
and how much are you going to change in motor.
 My 2 cent says start new and do it rite this time you will have
lots of repeat cost if you rework, sell motor complete build a killer
wont cost that much more, start rite and do it rite plan your work
and work you plan one time and done, and stick to plan Good berg,
good cam ,good pistons,good rods good crank, block,good heads best
maching you can get, and balance job. Run fast and make it to last in short
 time you will spend more on gas than motor $200  oil on way:banghead:

2savage4you

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« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2008, 05:53:09 PM »
2bolt
Cast crank
Stock rods
Balanced?
Cam yes.
Berg??? Builder wasnt me, dont know
Change pistons unless i build a new motor then i will use H beams ;D
Reading that just made me tired : banghead:

2confused

beerjet

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« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2008, 06:33:27 PM »
2bolt
Cast crank
Stock rods
Balanced?
Cam yes.
Berg??? Builder wasnt me, dont know
Change pistons unless i build a new motor then i will use H beams ;D
Reading that just made me tired : banghead:

2confused
Believe me . You wont have to worry about "keepin up " with anybody . Those cast piston , mild cam , peanut port head motors are the ones that give you the least trouble . Just be nice to it and it'll buy YOU enough time for a mill on the side . Dave (engine doctor) is offering his knowledge and Ron is offering up a cam and we'll all do what we can to get you water worthy . Keep chipping away at or else you'll just keep goin in reverse and you'll never see water . Except from shore of course . Put this thing together and see what it does . Cant you taste it ! I can fukin taste it !

-beerjet-
i dont but im all for stuffin shit in her ass to make her go away :-*

2savage4you

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« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2008, 06:45:16 PM »
Thanks Omar, and everyone for the help..  I get so damn frustrated when this shit pops up, i just want everything perfect the first time.. But i keep forgetting its a boat ( Bend over and take it) we will run this motor so wish us luck ;D

Now back to our regularly scheduled program ;D

2sav

hotrod56cars

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« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2008, 07:02:03 PM »
Sebastian and Marc got 2 1/2 years out of a stock truck BBC that they bought semi-rusty and they didn't baby it either. I think it did like 55 on the GPS.  :sly:
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« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2008, 07:03:07 PM »
This is getting to be our regular program dude.  Get it on the water this summer man, you don't need to keep up with anybody. I assure you that you will be ahead up me, but I will be having a great time same as you.   8)
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2savage4you

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« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2008, 07:07:56 PM »
Sebastian and Marc got 2 1/2 years out of a stock truck BBC that they bought semi-rusty and they didn't baby it either. I think it did like 55 on the GPS.  :sly:


Thats what i want to hear ;)

2sav

hotrod56cars

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« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2008, 07:29:39 PM »
They beat the sh!t out of that thing.  ;)
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NO REGRET$ ... Arguing on the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics / no matter how good you do you're still retarded!!!!!

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« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2008, 09:44:36 PM »

 But i dont want to be the guy that cant keep up with the crop ;D  But then again , sitting on the beach sucks too......



2sav

i'll be back there with you, having a nice cold boat soda, enjoying being on the water, now get that f'n thing done
BEAUTY IS ONLY A LIGHT SWITCH AWAY
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jet boat performance

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« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2008, 10:30:42 PM »
2 Sav you can build a pretty decent 350 to 400 hp "claimer" motor for cheap with cast piston (inexpensive rotating assy) or buy a inexpensive block , slap in in have fun heck a decent motor turn key can be built easily for under 2 K  ;D Tom

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« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2008, 09:04:30 AM »
Cast pistons are lighter than forged - much harder to balance once the cast pistons are swapped. You would have to weld up the crank.

A piston swap IS basically rebuilding the engine, you have to completely dissasemble the engine, so why wouldn't you put in new rings and bearings while you are there?

Cast pistons are actually better than forged in many cases: they are lighter (engine rev's quicker), typically have a good flame front, and are designed to last. They are not better in cases where you are abusing the piston itself, IE detonation, ton of boost, etc.

A cast piston will handle some boost and nitrous oxide (I have a cast piston 440 that has a 200 shot on it, never a problem and that engine has seen a LOT of NOS), just don't get crazy with it. A cast piston isn't going to want a 400 shot and/or 15 lbs of boost, it just won't be strong enough.

That is where a Forged piston is better - more strength, so things like a lean condition, excessive boost, ect don't affect it.

If you are building under 1.5Hp per CI, including all of the power adders, cast is the way to go in my mind.

I always like to have a spare engine and parts (hence the reason I want to get rid of the olds, it was an orphan), so my suggestion is to run what you have, enjoy, and build another one on the side. Right now your season is ended 'cause you don't want to run what you have. Run it until you can't.









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Marcsrollin

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« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2008, 09:22:02 AM »
Cast pistons are lighter than forged - much harder to balance once the cast pistons are swapped. You would have to weld up the crank.

A piston swap IS basically rebuilding the engine, you have to completely dissasemble the engine, so why wouldn't you put in new rings and bearings while you are there?

Cast pistons are actually better than forged in many cases: they are lighter (engine rev's quicker), typically have a good flame front, and are designed to last. They are not better in cases where you are abusing the piston itself, IE detonation, ton of boost, etc.

A cast piston will handle some boost and nitrous oxide (I have a cast piston 440 that has a 200 shot on it, never a problem and that engine has seen a LOT of NOS), just don't get crazy with it. A cast piston isn't going to want a 400 shot and/or 15 lbs of boost, it just won't be strong enough.

That is where a Forged piston is better - more strength, so things like a lean condition, excessive boost, ect don't affect it.

If you are building under 1.5Hp per CI, including all of the power adders, cast is the way to go in my mind.

I always like to have a spare engine and parts (hence the reason I want to get rid of the olds, it was an orphan), so my suggestion is to run what you have, enjoy, and build another one on the side. Right now your season is ended 'cause you don't want to run what you have. Run it until you can't.




All excellent points! 2sav you stated that you don't want your season to end early due to the motor , but if you don't get something going soon your season won't start at all!

What rod said about sebastian and I and the bone stock 454 truck motor is completly true and then some. We had no clue as to what we were doing at that time ( 4 seasons ago ) and were running a b/c cut impeller and ran that stock motor at 5500 to 6000 almost the whole time! 2 1/2 seasons into it it finally spun a bearing. But we went to the river everyother weekend the whole time we had it. It was a simi light layup hull and did 56 mph on the gps. We were so happy we dident know what to dowith ourselves.
If you think anyone on here is gonna be hauling ass in parker you are dead wrong!! Have you seen how choppy that water is??
Get your motor put togeather and get in the fuking water and have a good time and just take it easy till you get your big motor finished!
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2savage4you

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« Reply #22 on: May 07, 2008, 09:30:12 AM »
Thats everything i wanted to hear.......Ive got it stuck in my head that i have to run forged or it just wont work........I guess i have to stop being so anal about it and just get it in the water...
So what it all comes down to is not being the last in line but just being there to be the last in line ;D
I will finish up this engine in the next few days get her back in the boat and get r done >:D

Im still going to pick up the other block and slowly build it, did i say slowly already ;)

so im going to run a 454 with a performer intake peanut port heads and a 800 cfm Holley, that should be good to about 50 mph ya think ???
2sav

Ralph Brunt

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« Reply #23 on: May 07, 2008, 09:45:31 AM »
with the price of gas its all about floating for me

CHEAP, FAST, RELIABLE...PICK 2 CANT HAVE ALL 3
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« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2008, 09:50:32 AM »
with the price of gas its all about floating for me

 ;D ;D ;D

I say f' it and just run it, that boats gonna haul ass no matter what you do, later you find the inside wisdom of horsepower grasshopper  ;D

 


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