Null


Null


running motor out of the water

  • 21 Replies
  • 9832 Views

motorhome6

  • Join Date: Oct 2008
  • Location: Banning Calif
  • *
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 110
  • Karma: +1/-0
  • 1980 Crusader hot rod
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
« on: October 19, 2009, 01:07:24 AM »
  I was wondering ,when running the motor out of the water for tuning , do i need water going thru the pump for any reason , i have it going the the motor only but just thought i would ask before i have a chance to damage the pump for any reason. have only run for couple minutes so far.
                                                 thanks guys    motorhome 6.
 man am i up at 1:00 am wondering this stuff   :screwy:


Null


crewchief22

  • Join Date: Apr 2007
  • Location: Mentone Beach, CA
  • *
  • Team Member
  • Informative Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,396
  • Karma: +66/-0
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 193
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2009, 05:36:43 AM »
It's best to disconnect the driveshaft when running the engine out of the water, but that isn't always possible.  So... Yes you need to be running water through the pump also. 
  • Boat #1: '77 Hondo Pantera GT Jet
"Racing is life!  Anything that happens before or after, is just waiting"    Steve McQueen

The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?

motorhome6

  • Join Date: Oct 2008
  • Location: Banning Calif
  • *
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 110
  • Karma: +1/-0
  • 1980 Crusader hot rod
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2009, 10:28:53 AM »
 Thanks crewchief22    I only have about 1/4 inch play in driveshaft at end of spline at pump  ,there's no way to keep drive shaft out of the way  in less I take the PTO off also, if I can even get to the PTO bolts with the driveline so close . Is there any way to get water in pump besides spray it in intake with the hose ?  can you put water in the inspection hole at top of pump or no.  these sound like stupid questions to me but I don't know how you guys do this when your tuning w/ boat on the trailer at home

76NORDIC

  • Join Date: Sep 2007
  • Location: The OC / Brea McIntyre Park
  • *
  • SCJB Plus Member
  • Informative Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,508
  • Karma: +23/-0
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 143
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2009, 11:04:45 AM »
I put a tee on the line coming out of the pump going to the engine, has a hose fitting on it also. Hook the hose up, turn it on, and I have water going to both ;)
  • Boat #1: 76 Nordic BBF 460 Jet
The definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results.....Einstein

I refuse to call people an ass anymore. It insults hard working donkeys worldwide!

motorhome6

  • Join Date: Oct 2008
  • Location: Banning Calif
  • *
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 110
  • Karma: +1/-0
  • 1980 Crusader hot rod
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2009, 12:37:16 AM »
  ok thanks 76 NORDIC

76NORDIC

  • Join Date: Sep 2007
  • Location: The OC / Brea McIntyre Park
  • *
  • SCJB Plus Member
  • Informative Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,508
  • Karma: +23/-0
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 143
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2009, 07:55:38 AM »
I'll post a pic today after work ;)
  • Boat #1: 76 Nordic BBF 460 Jet
The definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results.....Einstein

I refuse to call people an ass anymore. It insults hard working donkeys worldwide!


Null


motorhome6

  • Join Date: Oct 2008
  • Location: Banning Calif
  • *
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 110
  • Karma: +1/-0
  • 1980 Crusader hot rod
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2009, 02:58:26 PM »
   OK GREAT, I appreciate that  76NORDIC... :)

TJS Nordic

  • Join Date: Oct 2007
  • Location: Connecticut
  • *
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 694
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2009, 05:03:48 PM »
Here is how I run my motors out of the water... ;D
T.J.


76NORDIC

  • Join Date: Sep 2007
  • Location: The OC / Brea McIntyre Park
  • *
  • SCJB Plus Member
  • Informative Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,508
  • Karma: +23/-0
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 143
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2009, 05:27:30 PM »
TJ you showoff :thumbup: :thumbup:   Tis badass :thumbup:
  • Boat #1: 76 Nordic BBF 460 Jet
The definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results.....Einstein

I refuse to call people an ass anymore. It insults hard working donkeys worldwide!

76NORDIC

  • Join Date: Sep 2007
  • Location: The OC / Brea McIntyre Park
  • *
  • SCJB Plus Member
  • Informative Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,508
  • Karma: +23/-0
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 143
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2009, 05:46:42 PM »
This is how I did it, others here will have different ideas or ways of doing it or why they take the shaft out. A real pain in the ass for me, this works well for me, and have used it this way for quite some time now. I used all stainless pipe fittings and brass also. I extended the pipe from the pump to make it easier to get the hose on. The first ball valve is there if ya need to regulate the water to your engine, or if ya blow a hose you can shut it off and limp home. The second ball valve on top of the tee is so when I am working on my boat alone as usual, I can shut it off, turn the water on, get in the boat start it and then turn it on, no running back and forth. Also have a cap on top of the hose fitting as you can see.  Just my .02
  • Boat #1: 76 Nordic BBF 460 Jet
The definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results.....Einstein

I refuse to call people an ass anymore. It insults hard working donkeys worldwide!

GT Jets

  • Join Date: Jan 2007
  • Location: Morgan Hill CA
  • *
  • Informative Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11,748
  • Karma: +192/-0
  • Team Evil Weiner
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 138
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2009, 06:21:07 PM »
Motorhome,

What are you worried about tearing up and how long do you need to run it dry?

The only place you should need any water in the pump is on the shaft packing and wear ring, not much to boot.

It is easy to get a little water in the packing area with a small sprinkler and a pair of vice grips... I have a little tool I made to get er done.

In all actuality, and I fully expect to get crap for this, you really do not need to wet the pump unless it is set up fairly tight, but remember to back off the pacing lands and maybe even squirt some mineral oil (I use vacuum pump oil) on the shaft at both ends of the packing (inside and outside the boat). The packing can overheat if left tight and it runs for too long. I have been doing it this way since the late '80's and have yet to experience any ill effects.

Some of the pumps I have done this on were set up stupid tight and have stainless impellers...They do rattle pretty good, but they don't break anything....

I do have a super secret modification that can be done on a Berkeley to keep them preloaded and makes them super quiet, even while in the water at idle, but that's another story and thread. :sly:

note; water on the wear ring does not keep the packing cool....

TJS, that is simply badass, probably not something you will find in the "Poor Boy Garage"... :screwy:

GT

Tom, don't kick me in the junk LOL... ;D
« Last Edit: October 20, 2009, 06:28:52 PM by GT Jets »
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

OC2Vegas

  • Join Date: Apr 2007
  • Location: Laguna Niguel, Ca
  • *
  • Informative Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,311
  • Karma: +12/-0
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2009, 07:21:05 PM »
Here is how I run my motors out of the water... ;D
T.J.



Show off!

your videos never get old!
1979 Sanger Superjet
BBC, 12JG

motorhome6

  • Join Date: Oct 2008
  • Location: Banning Calif
  • *
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 110
  • Karma: +1/-0
  • 1980 Crusader hot rod
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2009, 01:52:05 AM »
yeah ,that video was bad ass, thanks for the pics 76nordic .  GT ,I just want to do a quick tune and check things out. Its a new motor for me (used), adjust carbs and timing, check for leaks. Ive had all flats way back when .This is my first jet boat. I havent even messed with the pump yet (stock Berkley). I don't know anything about the shaft packing and wear ring yet. I bought the boat with a blown 455  in it , blown meaning motor parts in boxes needing rebuild . I bought a BBC w/about 500 HP that was out of a circle boat( flat bottom). The guy I got the motor from said it would run 5500 rpm all day. That was in a flat though. I'm trying to just get it in the water and see how it runs before winter hits then this winter do the pump ,paint and interior. I think I'm going to set my water line coming off the pump like 76NORDIC has his , looks nice and simple ....  I'll have many more questions  after I test the boat . All the info you guys have given me from the beginning of this build has saved me sooooo many headaches  thanks to all you guys for helping every time I get stumped .This next summer I plan on partying with you guys on the lake, any lake, I 'll buy the beer my first lake trip. Wait a minute....How much beer would that be ? Would I have to fill the back of my truck and the boat full of beer AND still have to go back for more ?????? I still think thats better than all the headaches I could have had. 

GT Jets

  • Join Date: Jan 2007
  • Location: Morgan Hill CA
  • *
  • Informative Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11,748
  • Karma: +192/-0
  • Team Evil Weiner
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 138
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2009, 07:45:21 AM »
1:52 AM?   I thought I had a problem  ;D

FWIW, backflushing the pump does near nothing to protect the pump internals (no offense 76), be sure to back off the two 3/8" packing bolts a few turns , you can always count the turns you loosened them and go right back when you're done.

Just don't be like me and forget to tighten them back up :-[

Good luck with it....BTW 5,500 RPM in a prop boat uses less science than in a jet (different HP) because of the torque requirement, don't get me started though (already went through this over on PB  :banghead: )

GT
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

jet boat performance

  • Join Date: Dec 2006
  • Location: Atascadero ,California
  • *
  • Informative Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,152
  • Karma: +25/-0
    • View Profile
    • jetboatperformance.com
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2009, 08:25:06 AM »
The "Clunkty" stacato rattleing noise prevelant in jets (particularly with heavier Bronze and stainless Impellers)  at idle (on the trailer) is what we refer to as "machine noise" it transfers thru mounts and sometimes sounds like its coming from the cranshaft . In a jet that does not have worn frt or rear bearings its a non issue . It can be corrected with shaft and/or drive line replacement (combined wear issues) We have also eliminated or lessened that same noise by "doping" the splines with silicone sealer during Drive line assembly. RE running jets out of the water ( a beat to death subject) Best not done with the DL in IMO however , in a "sound pump" with normal clearances and good bearings, running for a short time at or slightly above idle should never be a real issue IMO . re packings , most modern shaft rope packings are teflon impregnated and or PTFE coated (self lubricating) and for that matter even the old white "stinky goat fat" packings can withstand a fair amount of time out of the water , packings do benefit from a the small amount of water that passes thru them for cooling we like them to be adjusted to where an occasional  very small drip can be seen (engine off) every so often The biggest issue that causes packing failure and realated shaft wear is "over tightening" (causes "burnishing") , Snug them ever-so loosly and run em" Tom

Glenn buddy just trying to get my head around the vice grip packing cooler dealy maybe a pic ?  :screwy:

motorhome6

  • Join Date: Oct 2008
  • Location: Banning Calif
  • *
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 110
  • Karma: +1/-0
  • 1980 Crusader hot rod
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2009, 11:33:18 AM »
thanks GT and Tom  thats good to know, I'll make sure the packing is correct  .

btnhtillidie

  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Location: Los Angeles
  • *
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 111
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2009, 07:41:10 PM »
I have always wondered why you cant tap the suction housing for a hose bib? Take Jacuzzi for instance, no packing to deal with. Tap the housing for hose bib somewhere along the side. hook hose up that is split on a Y connection that way you can regulate the water to the engine and still have in on full blast for the pump. Of course it's not going to be a lot of water but a hose on full blast will give you what 60 PSI? More than enough for the pump. Water will be Distributed some what through the pump Shaft,Ring, Impeller etc.

if you really wanted to get nuts with it hook up a second hose from another Spicket and run water through the intake. 



Now this is all in theory..........

btnhtillidie

  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Location: Los Angeles
  • *
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 111
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2009, 06:15:05 PM »
another thing i was thinking about was buying a strong magnet like thing. Ya know the ones that they put on the sides of the car. Making one cut to fit the Intake on the jet that way it keeps rocks and junk out of the jet when traveling. Only down side would be forgetting about it. and launching with it on. 

76NORDIC

  • Join Date: Sep 2007
  • Location: The OC / Brea McIntyre Park
  • *
  • SCJB Plus Member
  • Informative Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,508
  • Karma: +23/-0
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 143
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2009, 07:04:08 PM »
another thing i was thinking about was buying a strong magnet like thing. Ya know the ones that they put on the sides of the car. Making one cut to fit the Intake on the jet that way it keeps rocks and junk out of the jet when traveling. Only down side would be forgetting about it. and launching with it on. 
   For me the first time I launch I back into the water pretty good and then pull out, kinda washing it out, and then backing it back in, then good to go :thumbup:
  • Boat #1: 76 Nordic BBF 460 Jet
The definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results.....Einstein

I refuse to call people an ass anymore. It insults hard working donkeys worldwide!

btnhtillidie

  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Location: Los Angeles
  • *
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 111
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2009, 07:33:06 PM »
   For me the first time I launch I back into the water pretty good and then pull out, kinda washing it out, and then backing it back in, then good to go :thumbup:

Yea same here, I was just thinking out side of the box....

Luckie Stiff

  • Join Date: Aug 2007
  • Location: Austin Texas
  • *
  • Team Member
  • Informative Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,933
  • Karma: +29/-0
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 13
« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2009, 07:37:33 PM »
another thing i was thinking about was buying a strong magnet like thing. Ya know the ones that they put on the sides of the car. Making one cut to fit the Intake on the jet that way it keeps rocks and junk out of the jet when traveling. Only down side would be forgetting about it. and launching with it on. 

Hey, if you find one that'll stick to the aluminum, buy two, I'll take one  ;D
"Don't you realize that there are already enough people in the world to hate without you putting so much effort into giving me another?"

btnhtillidie

  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Location: Los Angeles
  • *
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 111
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2009, 08:26:48 PM »
Hey, if you find one that'll stick to the aluminum, buy two, I'll take one  ;D

Ah phock i didnt even think of that. K


Null


 


Website Security Test
Powered by EzPortal
Null

Website Security Test