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Poll

Chevy or Ford?

Chevy
29 (45.3%)
Ford
28 (43.8%)
Other
7 (10.9%)

Total Members Voted: 61


The Big Debate - Ford Vs. Chevy

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GlassCutter

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« Reply #50 on: September 15, 2007, 09:33:09 PM »
Word !   I knew I liked this guy.  If drag races were won with words I think you all are looking at his brake lights.  Haters -- the line forms here.
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« Reply #51 on: September 15, 2007, 10:17:26 PM »
so what can i say=run what ya brung

AND HAVE A LOT OF FUN!!!   ;D
~Greg
Forgive your enemies.  It messes up their heads.

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« Reply #52 on: September 15, 2007, 11:25:56 PM »
How the hell did I miss this debate.
Chevrolet all the way!!
LakesOnly don't know shitt!!!
You CAN indeed get over 700 hp from stock Chevy block, crank and heads. My Sanger had over 700 hp.
It is very rare to see a 460 ford run hard. It might run good for a 460 Ford, but dollar for dollar it will be crushed by the Chevy. Yes there are some fast Fords, but at what cost. I'll go dollar for dollar against ANY Ford based engine combo.

speedymopars

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« Reply #53 on: September 22, 2007, 03:28:11 PM »
Wait - wasn't someone saying here that a set of manifolds for a Chevy are 200 bucks, but an Olds versions are only 100? I just bought a set of edelbrock wet manifolds, nickson snails, marine pan, attached to a running Marine BB Mopar for 300 bucks...  Wouldn't that make the Chevys more expensive to set up than the other motors?



GC - Thanks :-)
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GlassCutter

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« Reply #54 on: September 22, 2007, 04:51:18 PM »
Chevy guys are like Liberals, they can't stand hearing the truth.
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« Reply #55 on: September 22, 2007, 06:10:58 PM »
How the hell did I miss this debate.
Chevrolet all the way!!
LakesOnly don't know shitt!!!
You CAN indeed get over 700 hp from stock Chevy block, crank and heads. My Sanger had over 700 hp.
It is very rare to see a 460 ford run hard. It might run good for a 460 Ford, but dollar for dollar it will be crushed by the Chevy. Yes there are some fast Fords, but at what cost. I'll go dollar for dollar against ANY Ford based engine combo.

i dont care how much money i have to spend i will never own a chebby, besides that they wont ever look this cool

CHEAP, FAST, RELIABLE...PICK 2 CANT HAVE ALL 3
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They are all fukin tasty. My long time favorite, "Dirty Dicks -beerjet-
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« Reply #56 on: September 22, 2007, 06:59:27 PM »
Wait - wasn't someone saying here that a set of manifolds for a Chevy are 200 bucks, but an Olds versions are only 100? I just bought a set of edelbrock wet manifolds, nickson snails, marine pan, attached to a running Marine BB Mopar for 300 bucks...  Wouldn't that make the Chevys more expensive to set up than the other motors?



GC - Thanks :-)

Used parts are priced by supply and demand, there is no or very little demand for used marine mopar parts, that's one possible reason why yours were cheap. Most people that have Olds engines want something else, Ford or Chevrolet, and there's a billion of those used Olds marine parts for sale. It's one thing to get your boat's parts cheap but it needs to stay running to stay cheap. $300 for all of those parts plus the engine is a steal, for any brand and I'm sure you're very aware of that.

While I have your attention (hopefully) do you know the major differences between the mopar compared to the Chevrolet's and Ford's? (2 or 4 bolt mains, main cap bolt diameter's, rod bolt diameter's, do the head bolts go through/into water jackets, etc etc etc... thanks!)


Ralph there is no doubt that your drag car's engine is SIK, that's a huge understatement... but there's more than one reason most pro drag racer's run Hemi's and not Ford's version of the Hemi.


I'm still waiting to see percentages of races won for each manufacturer...
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Ralph Brunt

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« Reply #57 on: September 22, 2007, 08:00:59 PM »
Rod, its because NHRA has outlawed the ford hemi. that being said john force is trying to get the ban lifted, and if anybody can he can

CHEAP, FAST, RELIABLE...PICK 2 CANT HAVE ALL 3
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« Reply #58 on: September 22, 2007, 10:51:21 PM »
Used parts are priced by supply and demand, there is no or very little demand for used marine mopar parts, that's one possible reason why yours were cheap. Most people that have Olds engines want something else, Ford or Chevrolet, and there's a billion of those used Olds marine parts for sale. It's one thing to get your boat's parts cheap but it needs to stay running to stay cheap. $300 for all of those parts plus the engine is a steal, for any brand and I'm sure you're very aware of that.


I know. law of supply and demand. I do think it is funny how normally the Mopar stuff is way expensive, except in the boating world . Things are turned upside down here ...



While I have your attention (hopefully) do you know the major differences between the mopar compared to the Chevrolet's and Ford's? (2 or 4 bolt mains, main cap bolt diameter's, rod bolt diameter's, do the head bolts go through/into water jackets, etc etc etc... thanks!)


Typically, Mopars are 2 bolt mains. Because they use the block itself for side support for the main caps, this is able to handle 800 HP. From there to 1200, they have side bolts that screw the side of the caps into the block (a la hemi). From 1200-2500, Indy makes a block with the side bolts, but with 1/2 inch bolts instead of 7/16ths. KB uses 9/16 inch bolts up to 3000 HP, then double side bolts beyond that. No one knows how much this can take, the top fuelers pushing well over 7000 HP don't break them (reportedly, they are at 8300 HP now!).

Both Chevy and Ford use bolts into the block, but only in one direction (up) with no side support. A 4 bolt main chevy / ford is not as strong as a 2 bolt Mopar for this reason. This is the weak area of the ford blocks, the entire assy pulls out of the block. Bob Glidden used to complain that after a run, they could change the main bearings without touching a bolt :-)

For the rods, there are either 3/8ths or 7/16th bolts for the big end, and 1.094 pin on the top. This is either a liability or an asset depending on what you want. Really the Chevy .990 pin is good enough and it is lighter, so for gas apps over 6800 RPM, the Chevy pin is the way to go. Below that, there is an advantage to the Mopar for strength. If you compare a Chevy rod to a Mopar rod, the chevy one looks a bit weak. Aftermarket is a different story, they all have 7/16th bolts, and are all set up for the Chevy pin and bearing (at least for the mopars).

Head bolts on a mopar do not go into a water jacket, and there are either 5 (wedge) or 6 (hemi) 7/16th bolts per cylinder. Aftermarket blocks can have this bumped to 1/2 inch. No real mods needed for high boost / compression / fuel like the Fords.
 
If you compare the crank snout between the mfg, it is easy to tell the Mopar - it's twice as big! This is one of the weak areas of the Chevy, you always hear about crank snouts being broken. 



Ralph there is no doubt that your drag car's engine is SIK, that's a huge understatement... but there's more than one reason most pro drag racer's run Hemi's and not Ford's version of the Hemi.


I'm still waiting to see percentages of races won for each manufacturer...

Yes, they don't survive the horsepower, plain and simple. They come and go, as do the aftermarket blocks (arias, tfx, etc), but the Mopar design is the one that can survive (KB).

As far as the real percentages, it's easy.
TF - 100%
Funny car - 100%
TFboat - 100%

I seriously doubt Force will try to move off of what him and Coil have been winning with for 20+ years.  The NHRA is a little gun shy of any other designs for the fuel classes - they hate accidents and the track getting oiled. In the non fuel ranks though, IE pro stock, it is the pontiac head design that is winning races. They make a Mopar like bottom end (except they don't make the skirts as long, helping with both windage and weight), and then throw a set of custom pontiac heads on. In the IHRA and the mountain motors, its the Fords that are the big dogs and win *everything*. In the NMRA it's those damn little motors (Ford 302 based 347's) with the big hairdryers going deep into the 6's. BTW - Ralph - That Ford HEMI is sweet.

****
Comparing factory to factory blocks (no aftermarket)

Size of stroking (CID) - Advantage Ford
Block height - Advantage Mopar
Bobweight - Advantage Chevy
Valvetrain stability - Advantage Mopar
Block Strength - Advantage Mopar
Parts availablity on the water -  Advantage Chevy. (Big) Disadvantage Mopar.
Oil system - Advantage Mopar
Head CFM - Advantage Mopar
Changing the starter - Chevy's bolts point up making it difficult to pull in a jet boat, Advantage Mopar and Ford
 

Bore stroke CID
4.362 3.850 460
4.320 3.750 440
4.250 4.000 454

The 454 will have the biggest ooph down low where the stroke makes up for the small bore size. The irony is they have the lightest parts and should be able to rev the highest.
The 440 will make the most power up higher in the band and be able to rev highest.
The 460 splits the two but is closest to the Mopar.

Mopar has the hemi head, which flows the best. Chevy has the splaid valve heads, which are not quite a wedge, not quite a hemi. They flow well, but have an issue with runner length, as there are two different sizes so you can't optimize for any one RPM.

Ford's runners typically flow great on the intake.


*****


After it is all said and done, it is really the brand that makes you proudest that you should use. I know my Mopars take a beating and beat on everyone else. My buddy says the same thing with his fords, and another with his Chevys (except I beat them at the strip :-). If you are anywhere south of 600 horsepower, it doesn't matter and as long as we all have fun, that is what it is all about. In the old days, the Chevys, Fords, Mopars and Pontiacs ran pretty damn close to each other at the strip. 

Just watch your NOS intake on the Fords so you don't remove your bottom end without tools, and make sure you Chevy guys don't overload the crank snout and change your oil regularly as that rear main gets unfiltered oil....
 




« Last Edit: September 22, 2007, 11:07:16 PM by speedymopars »
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hotrod56cars

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« Reply #59 on: September 22, 2007, 11:04:43 PM »
THANKS SPEEDYMOPARS, Awesome info!

The Chevrolet rear main gets unfiltered oil? WTF?  >:(

I just wanted more info since in the grand scheme of things there is a lot more out there than just Ford's running against Chevrolet's.  ;)
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GAWnCA

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« Reply #60 on: October 02, 2007, 10:05:42 PM »
This is our heritage! BIG V-8s that chug gas and smoke ass! My 2 cents.

Mind if I use that????  :D
~Greg
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« Reply #61 on: October 29, 2007, 07:17:11 PM »
Do crate motors count if they do I think I know who won that one.  :o

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« Reply #62 on: October 29, 2007, 10:08:58 PM »
Do crate motors count if they do I think I know who won that one.  :o

Mopar?  ;D

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« Reply #63 on: October 29, 2007, 10:12:38 PM »
Word    Mopar hands down
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« Reply #64 on: October 29, 2007, 10:48:46 PM »
Word    Mopar hands down

Factoring in cost? Or just by HP? Or?
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NO REGRET$ ... Arguing on the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics / no matter how good you do you're still retarded!!!!!

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GlassCutter

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« Reply #65 on: October 29, 2007, 11:00:49 PM »
Any way you slice it. Especially using a majority of stock parts. Stout bottom end, good oiling, stable valve train, easy 500 inches, 1000+ cfm intakes system (six pack) Hemi anyone?
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« Reply #66 on: October 30, 2007, 08:16:22 AM »
Factoring in cost? Or just by HP? Or?

In cost and HP, I would say most HP per $. Unless you're talking Hemi then it's most cool factor per $ lol

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« Reply #67 on: October 30, 2007, 08:26:22 AM »
I  didn't mopar had a 620 hp crate motor? ::)

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« Reply #68 on: October 30, 2007, 11:43:11 AM »
I think Chevrolet's 540 crate motor is 740 HP. I think it's around $12K. So other than just vague comments, what does MOPAR offer for crate engines (HP and cost)? Ford?
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NO REGRET$ ... Arguing on the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics / no matter how good you do you're still retarded!!!!!

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« Reply #69 on: October 30, 2007, 11:53:09 AM »
I was checking out the 540 crate motors and the only ones that were over 600 HP were mopar's. I have yet to see one 540 chevy crate motor over 600 HP.
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« Reply #70 on: October 30, 2007, 11:55:53 AM »
chevy has a 720hp 572ci crate motor
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« Reply #71 on: October 30, 2007, 12:20:37 PM »
The one in summit and jegs is only 620 HP.
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« Reply #72 on: October 30, 2007, 12:20:55 PM »
The one in summit and jegs is only 620 HP.
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« Reply #73 on: October 30, 2007, 12:24:03 PM »
Sorry nick I stand corrected , the one from GM is 720 HP. 12:1 compression
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« Reply #74 on: October 30, 2007, 01:31:54 PM »
no big deal mark  ;D
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