Water pressure

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quick olds

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« on: February 17, 2013, 12:30:39 PM »
Whos running a regulator off ther pump and what one do you recodmend workin on the boat today and wanted to get the plumbing done thanks for info


beerjet

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« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2013, 12:51:15 PM »
Ive always ran a gate valve.
This subject is preference.
Boats have always had gate valves without issues but again, its preference either way.

-beerjet-
i dont but im all for stuffin shit in her ass to make her go away :-*

quick olds

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« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2013, 02:22:10 PM »
Ya it has a gate valve now i was just thinkin it would be more consistent to run a regulator

GT Jets

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« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2013, 03:22:09 PM »
Ya it has a gate valve now i was just thinkin it would be more consistent to run a regulator

You will find way larger temperature settings swings (stupid spell check...) with a regulator valve. Gate valve provides variable flow, regulator will not.

GT
« Last Edit: February 17, 2013, 08:18:52 PM by GT Jets »
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

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quick olds

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« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2013, 04:12:37 PM »
Ok that makes sense i just dont want to run too much water and as of now im gonna run my headers dry they were blue when i got them so im gonna paint them with black header paint and run them dry

beerjet

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« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2013, 08:46:28 PM »
Thats a whole other can of worms....
That everyone will say their way is the best.

-beerjet-
i dont but im all for stuffin shit in her ass to make her go away :-*

Horizonjet

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« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2013, 09:16:47 PM »
Dont they run too hot dry? and is it better to run water through them?
72 Horizon BBC

beerjet

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« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2013, 09:44:49 PM »
They run hot either way.

-beerjet-
i dont but im all for stuffin shit in her ass to make her go away :-*

GT Jets

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« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2013, 10:10:54 PM »
They run hot either way.

-beerjet-

X2
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

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« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2013, 01:17:11 AM »
Just another two cents, I put a gate valve on mine when I had my pump rebuilt. McClure says a good working pump will produce 150psi and that is too much for a water jacket. Adjust the gate valve to run a good temp that works while driving or idling and you're good.

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« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2013, 06:53:23 PM »
Is running dry better? Or is it just a personal preference? 
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beerjet

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« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2013, 07:05:13 PM »
I dont think anyone has proven anything either way.
The main reason for running water through them is to preserve the chrome.
And keeping the temp down for passengers.

-beerjet-
i dont but im all for stuffin shit in her ass to make her go away :-*

quick olds

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« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2013, 07:19:12 PM »
I closed my valve to the headers to see how much of a difference it will make and it opened up alot and my chrome was shot when i got tge headers so im painting tgem black and running them dry but i dont have an engine cover to worry about catching on fire and all my seating is infront of engine just gotta remember there dry now and not touch them when walkin around my boat after a run

quick olds

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« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2013, 07:21:08 PM »
Oh and im just gonna run the gate valve unless i start having gasket issues thats all i was worried about was having too much pressure and blowing gaskets thanks for the info guys and ill try to make some meets this season >:D

RockyCapone

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« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2013, 06:52:10 AM »
Oh and im just gonna run the gate valve unless i start having gasket issues thats all i was worried about was having too much pressure and blowing gaskets thanks for the info guys and ill try to make some meets this season >:D
I was went round and round with this last year, in the end I put a pressure gauge on the manifold started with a 150 psi-gauge didnt move, then to 0-60 same thing- finally ended up with a 0-10 psi and found my stocker runs only at 8 psi under full throttle I have 2 water dumps on mine temps stay very cool never above 160. So if your worried try a gauge, I bought it a regular hardware store-I think it was intended for boilers? I face it towards me while driving and look at it here and there, I suck up seaweed soup I'll see pressure fall. I watch only because I blued my Bassets last year....grrrrrrr
1978 Southwind Formula 1 T body
454 Berkley
IF I GET BORED AND HAVE NOTHING TO DO I'M CALLING GTJETS AND ASKING HIM IF I SHOULD RUN A T-STAT IN MY JETBOAT--THAT SHOULD BURN OFF 8 HOURS EASY
....it would have been cheaper to spend our money on cocaine and hookers

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« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2013, 11:23:54 AM »
White Rouge and a buffing wheel should take that bluing off. Tested it on a set I had and it took some pressure but the bluing and yellowing came right off

In my best "grandad" voice with a cigarette hanging out of my mouth....  "if a day goes by and you learn nothing, I hope like hell you got a lot of sleep".... :thumbup:

RockyCapone

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« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2013, 01:12:25 PM »
White Rouge and a buffing wheel should take that bluing off. Tested it on a set I had and it took some pressure but the bluing and yellowing came right off
If that works I'll buy the beer at least till I pass out.
 
1978 Southwind Formula 1 T body
454 Berkley
IF I GET BORED AND HAVE NOTHING TO DO I'M CALLING GTJETS AND ASKING HIM IF I SHOULD RUN A T-STAT IN MY JETBOAT--THAT SHOULD BURN OFF 8 HOURS EASY
....it would have been cheaper to spend our money on cocaine and hookers

jet fever

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« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2013, 10:54:13 PM »
I have a Thermostat 160* with a by-pass in the Thermostat housing to solve the Eng temp issue and no gate valves to solve water pressure issue the Reason = ( Gate valves may cause excess pressure into block or over transom headers if Leaned out to achieve proper temp in block your restricting the flow on the exit to keep the water slow enough to keep at a warm temp.)
On over the transom headers one line goes from your Themostat housing and feeds your Header pressure TEE which some have a gate valve to control inlet water pressure.  One line goes to a gate valve and then overboard If you Lean out the gate valve your putting more water pressure to the Header TEE because it cant dump overboard and it may end up with water in your oil and vise versa if its open too far too much water dumps overboard & you blue your Headers
I have a 12 psi Relief valve off of the pump Jet drive "Water Feed" to not allow excess water pressure into my block (the water dumps overboard if relief lifts I had to install a new outlet) I have two Header water inlets and exits for great flow without pressure build up
The water that feeds my wet stacks is supplied now from the plug port (That is pipe plugged on your manifold) - I have a 90* elbow installed under the Thermostat housing on the intake manifold water crossover that runs to the hose that goes to the gate valve in between the 90 elbow and Header TEE to control flow to the wet stacks without interupting water flow exiting the engine.  This gate valve is not disrupting "pressure".  Adjust this gate till you get a fine mist from your Headers they don't need a bunch of water
The new route of the water exiting my engine is now from each fitting off of the Thermostat housing going to two "individual" dumps overboard :beer: :beer:


« Last Edit: April 01, 2013, 03:28:01 PM by jet fever »
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jet fever

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« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2013, 03:40:45 PM »
Okay so mine is pump to 12 PSI Reg to tee
Tee to water pump inlet through motor out 160 Thermostat housing
From thermostat housing one line to headers one line to dump overboard

This solves blocktemp issue pressure issues and colored header issues
My two cents
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74hondo

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« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2013, 10:54:25 AM »
Jet fevers set up is just like mine except I don't run a thermostat. I did a post on a topic about this about two years ago. There is a difference between pressure and volume of water. I'd say go with this setup, minus the thermostat if you don't already have one. It gives you a lot of room to adjust.

jet fever

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« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2013, 08:15:37 PM »
Well the Thermostat keeps your Engine @ proper temp ( I like 160* )

Mine has two small bypass pores machined in but you can buy a bypass kit for a chevy
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GT Jets

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« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2013, 11:44:32 PM »
Well the Thermostat keeps your Engine @ proper temp ( I like 160* )

Mine has two small bypass pores machined in but you can buy a bypass kit for a chevy

What determines "proper temp"?

I have no problem with thermostats other than it is one more thing to screw up.

If the water flow is unregulated other than a reduced opening at the gate valve, it is basically doing the same thing, IMHO going with a pressure regulator is one step forward, then the stat is a step back. I am a fan of one or the other or none.

Literally the only time I like to see a thermostat is when the engine has an automotive style water pump on it.

To each their own, but I like to keep things silly simple, if the clearances are correct in the build as far as machining, the motor will be completely happy running at 120*F, you can make a ton of HP running the motor cooler. It lowers combustion chamber temperatures which reduces detonation as well...

Two Fer. :thumbup:

If you found something that works for you, run with it... ;)

On the race boat, I liked using the drain holes in the block to feed the water and have water leaving all four corners of the heads... Seemed to really even out the temperatures and keep sand/silt at bay.

GT
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

jet fever

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« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2013, 02:46:14 AM »
Well Proper Temp is a constant temp (as much as possible from lake water) anywhere from 140*-180* so 160 is kinda the middle road. Thats my opinion not far off from your 120*
So people can use the thermostat to help that out
A engine will appriciate a constant temp which will actually NOT cause detonation unless the combustion chambers are REALLY hot  and your right it will run happy @ 120*
Furthermore with your Gate valve you COULD achieve good Engine block temp but the lack of water valume going through the Heads could be costly head gasket, water in the oil, intake gasket any of those could fail from the PRESSURE let alone turn your nice looking pipes into an ugly mess from the lack of water
Hey probly more than most run with gate valves but if you have the chance to plum a proper set up why not right

Anyway the thread is water pressure and my opinion gate valves are not the best option to control flow or pressure.  Hence I have regulator for pressure its a 12 psi with a relieve that dumps overboard constant psi ALL DAY and Thermostat for Temp two seperate issues but are tied to each other through this process and I was sharing my set up
Not everyone knows what they are doing when turning that gate it will flow fine going in the inlet but you run a gate to slow the flow on the outlet to reach your 120* right  that creates back pressure if you divorce the block cooling and regulate pressure and keep good water flow you should be good to go and not everyone will run a thermostat or a regulator but when your WOT theres hella water pressure right and when your cruising theres less flow so why you wanna keep adjusting the gate valve??? :screwy:  Hence I got the regulator just for the pressure
It works dont get me wrong but your motor will see HELLA (NOR CAL TERM)  fluxuations in temp and pressure so bottom line to me its just reassurance Not trying to write a book just trying to get out my thoughts  :beer:
« Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 03:10:22 AM by jet fever »
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« Reply #23 on: April 09, 2013, 06:07:30 AM »
Well I thought the 12psi water pressure is about WOT. Cars cooling systems you don't want over 15psi any time. When cruising/ idling boat water psi is not 12psi which causes engine temp to go up 160. If you set idle water psi at 12, WOT water psi would be much greater which is not good.



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RockyCapone

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« Reply #24 on: April 09, 2013, 07:43:48 AM »
My thoughts on all this. The pressure in a car's cooling system is determined by the radiator cap only 12-15 psi the norm. The reason for the pressure is only to raise the boiling point of the water, boiling water will not absorb heat and transfer it to the radiator-and a t-stat stops or limits the water from leaving the radiator so that we can have heat transfer from the engine coolant to ambient air. The water flow from a standard water pump is much lower than what a jet makes but if you had no restrictions or very low restrictions on the water coming out of the block the pressure isnt a problem what we will see is a very high volume of water, on a car it must be slow so the radiator can absorb the heat.
The problem I have with a tstat, and I've researched this up down is this, 1. our boats suck up sand and grains unless you have a inlet filter, not many people have, and I cant see that working well with a tstat that was intended for antifreeze that is way more lubricated than water, 2 the shock of very cold water-Colorado river this weekend was 51*F confirmed with my Fluke laser pointer- going into an engine that is 160-180 when the tstat opens will cause the metals to contract and expand like crazy, 3. marine engine are set up looser than a car engine because a car spends most of its life at 1500-2500 rpms while a jet boat spends most its life at 3500 or higher and it will stay at WOT longer than any car engine so pistons in our boats will expand much more than a cars engine.
I couldnt build heat in my engine for nothing this past weekend say maybe 130 once after a 60 second WOT blast otherwise it just stayed at 100 mostly. Poor and slow water flow into the engine can and will cause hot pockets in the engine and that will cause warping and cracking-also keep in mind-this is important-car's coolant systems are air free and many of the new cars have air bleeder valves to purge the air pockets-I never checked but I can only GUESS the water coming from a jet pump is loaded with air bubbles.
Its not so much keeping and eye on the water temp but the temp of the oil, it will tell you way more and that was the reason I had the temp gun with me to verify my oil temp was good, yes I will get an oil temp gauge but I just put in new oil and was just trying to get to the lake and shake down my new intake and HEI combo. Even with such cold water temps I saw oil temp float around 190-220. In the race car world an ideal engine ready to make a 1/4 mile pass I would love to see 120-130 degree water temp and 180 oil temp.
Now again this is coming from a guy who has a good back ground in drag racing and VERY limited knowledge in jet boats but this is just what makes sense to me and from all that I researched so far. So if anyone believes Im way off tell I'd love to hear and/or learn more, I'm not here to get into a pissing match I'm just trying to help out and even to make sure I'm right.  ::)
1978 Southwind Formula 1 T body
454 Berkley
IF I GET BORED AND HAVE NOTHING TO DO I'M CALLING GTJETS AND ASKING HIM IF I SHOULD RUN A T-STAT IN MY JETBOAT--THAT SHOULD BURN OFF 8 HOURS EASY
....it would have been cheaper to spend our money on cocaine and hookers

 


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