With the 460 the heads are gonna be your limiting factor. And in a jet boat you want as much torque as you can build down low.

532 is probably the largest you want to go in a family boat, with the rod length and pin location involved you usually can't get the dish in the piston deep enough to keep the compression ratio pump gas friendly(10.0 to 1 or less). In your application, buy a set of Pro-Comp bare heads, do NOT use their parts/valves in a marine application!  You can "get away with it" for a while, but when a valve fails, it takes out everything with it. Not worth the savings. The castings are fine though, and the best bang for the Horsepower buck going. These have very large hardened seat rings that will accept stock, small valves, or can be opened up to about anysized valve you would ever want to put into them. I do have a set of baked, blasted, magged, surfaced, race bronze guides, ported, big valved(new 2.19/1.78 Stainless steel), fresh factory Ford heads for $475.00/pair. These have the big chambers required for strokers to keep the compression down to reasonable levels. They have been abandoned at my shop for over 4 years, and I am asking only whats owed on them. I sell the Aluminum Pro-Comps bare for $795 per pair. We have the parts and machinery to finish them correctly. If you buy any heads from anyone, make SURE that the guide to stem clearances are correct for a boat, (they will need more clearance than on a car), and that quality Stainless valves are used. The bigger and more aggressive the cam, (roller?) the better the quality valves are needed. Remember: a 600 HP motor in a drag/street car will run high 10 second quarter mile times, and thats about as long as you will ever stay "on it" on the street too. Boat guys will run flat out, wide open for miles! It is much more difficult and expensive to build a reliable marine engine. We build both, but the boat stuff requires better parts and different clearances. About one fourth of our work in here is the result of partially or fully destroyed marine big blocks built by high perf CAR engine shops. Most car engine builders/shops don't know what they don't know, and that will hurt YOU and your wallet.  Talk to a trusted marine engine guy about cam sizes/overlap, there are many styles and types of thru transom exhaust manifolds. You can NOT run aluminum logs without water thru them, but there are tricks to make them work better. The logs will KILL the horsepower with  a stroker!  TIMINATOR

Hey thanks for the help guys. Tim you cleared up alot of little details, I will be asking you for more advice in the future, if you could pm me a shop number that would be great (for purchase purposes). I had a feeling that boat engines would be different then that of a hot rod. Thanks again -Bill...

So anything over 10 to 1 compression is gonna take better then 93 octane?
If so...
On that 557ci motor would a thicker commetic gasket help lower the compression enough to run pump gas?

I Have another cheaper choice as well.
-Scat 900 crank (non forged on the crank and rods... crank good for 900hp)
-Scat I-Beams
-JE piston (forged)
Whole assembly includes bearings and rings as well 1,300.00 doll hairs... Also compression will be 11:2:1
It keeps it a 460 but I could buy a decent set of heads and keep the cost low. Still dont know if this would allow it to run 70ish mph...

no im not talking about the iron scj head  (dooe-r) or old motorsport C/J head but, the newer kasse designed scj head with the new valve angles not like the OLD c/j heads. that being said i believe if you ever get your hands on a set of tfs streets you will be pleasantly suprised at the quality rite out of the box ( i know i was).

for all who are reading this, all new parts should be suspect until verified otherwise....... remember the more you pay for a part the worse it fits lol

So Tim, what kind of flow are we talking about here on the Ford heads & on the pro-comp heads??? Are the pro-comps aluminum? Also cumbustion chamber sizes? How much for a finished set of the pro-comps???

-Like I asked before, what will it take to make a boat do 70ish-12345, do I even need to get huge displacement, or can it be done an easyer/little cheaper way???(if not I understand)

-Also I havnt asked this yet, is it possible to have a boat that fast (70ish)running off a 750dble pumper? If not how big?(sorry all I know is fuel infection systems/nothing about carbs)

you can get a dished piston to keep the c/r  down with the 72cc chambers that most aftermarket alum heads come with. the pro-comp is available in 72 and 95 cc combustion chambers as well as the edelbrock heads ( both standard valve layout). both flow less than the other heads i stated before... they make off the shelf pistons for the stroker kits for the p-51 and newer scj a or b heads. ( both have non stock valve layout)

there are many options for the bbf, do your research befor buying your parts.
ralph

I agree with you Ralph, there are many options. I am on here to get ideas and learn. Let me ask you, if it were your boat with a 460 that needed rebuilt, what would you build in order to run 70ish & be as reliable as possible, oh & run off pump gas???(c.i., carb, cam, heads etc) Oh and I gotta keep the logs, I have 2 small kids, the old lady wouldnt like dry stacks lol...

the.perv.....


What hull are we talking about here? got a picture....The JE is your weak link IMHO, very inefficient intake design....It will take the horsepower, it just wont be able to make full use of it in its stock form....With some carefully thought out modifications they can work, but they sort of suck stock...

The object of the game when making a jet work is to have torque available close to the high rpm range, a jet pump is virtually a very effective engine dynomometer. It will literally absorb all the HP you can make. What keeps it accelerating is torque, plain and simple, once you have used up the turning capability of the engine, that is where it will hit the RPM invisible wall...

Just MY .02c...

I believe if you shoot for the mid 5000's as far as RPM you will be fine, once you start thinking you can turn 6,000 plus RPM and go faster, you will be chasing your tail forever. Not to mention breaking a bunch of expensive parts in the process....

Choose heads, valves and cam and build the engine from there....Starting at the crank and pistons gets too difficult...Not many options.

IMHO, heads are always the hard part. Especially on a Blue Oval. Very odd valve train geometry. Ralph Brunt knows his way around the 460....Buy him a root beer and bend his ear...

I am not a Ford guy, but in the end, it is just a bunch of iron, steel and aluminum twisting a funny lookin' Frisbee moving a little water....

Good luck.

GT

It is a 77' Spectra 18', It has a mini day cruiser look to it. Ill try to get some pics. I would say it's a hog compared to a sanger or witchcraft that sits out of the water 6 inches. But its paid for lol...& its pretty clean for a 77'

Before I broke it I would guess it ran about 55-57ish @4500, thats the max it would turn

By the way, what pump is a good pump? Other then the JR???@6k
Can I do anything with this pump? Or is it a paper weight?

Spectra hulls are typically very well built but heavy hulls, you may want to lower your expectations a wee bit...

A heavy hull, coupled with a somewhat inferior performing pump package and I think you are going to be floating in Disappointment Bay....

To get these pumps to work takes quite a lot of thought. Being an "insert" type intake, the ramp is both short and steep, this really limits the performance expectation reality.

It can and has been done, but I think it would be more realistic to shoot for a 65 MPH family cruiser and use the money you saved to find a "Hot Rod". Realistically you would probably need to be in the neighborhood of in excess of 750 HP and have made numerous changes to both the hull and the pump to achieve the mid 70's with what you have to work with thus far. Whereas a different hull and pump package could do it with less than 600 ponies....Food for thought.

not trying to be a kill joy, just trying to be "real".

GT

Hey no biggie, thats why im on here lol, to look & learn.
Maybe it would be best if I rebuilt the pump I have & gave the old 460 some spruceing up and just make it reliable. Im not to worried about it, at least if it runs we can enjoy the lake (in a low murmering voice...& maybe sell it and buy a eliminator or youngblood fork lol...

Just what is it with the JE pump that pisses you off Glenn?  It is no less, or more, efficient than any other Berk pump out there. Is automatically set back, like everyone modifies their JG's to do, has a built in ride plate. Yes, they can benefit greatly with a shoe, and other mods depending on the hull, but we're talking 70 ish numbers here. I think Ralphs boat would probably STILL pull off 80+ MPH with a JE pump, maybe more moving the motor back a tad.   

My point being, there's NOTHING WRONG with the JE pump. It just does not work like the traditional Berks, nor does it necessarily respond to, or even accept, the typical "hot rod" mods normallly done on those. It is already "set-back" eliminating a ton of work there, it sits much lower in the hull, thereby lowering COG (Can't do that on a JG) AND eliminating the need for "Droop Snoots, etc to get the thrust angle deeper in the water.

It's intake is a little on the smallish side, not much. But if you compare the intake size of a JE to the SUCTION HOUSING inlet size of a JG, they're damn near the same, and the JE has this dimension right in the water. No intake required, No need for inducers......

IMHO, the JE can perform and hang with any JG given the same mods, tests an treatments. Both can and will benefit from loaders and shoes, but boats with the JE need to be handled a little differently. Most of the mods done to boats to move COG to the rear has already been done, etc, etc, etc. I don't get why it's so hated and compared to a Panther???

From the suction housing back, your JE pump is the same exact animal as every other Berk out there.

Ray

If you really believe all that , you are just lying to your self cause you have one! There is a reason why they stopped making them a loooong time ago! And a reason why you will never see one at any race , circle or drag!

Just what is it with the JE pump that pisses you off Glenn?  It is no less, or more, efficient than any other Berk pump out there. Is automatically set back, like everyone modifies their JG's to do, has a built in ride plate. Yes, they can benefit greatly with a shoe, and other mods depending on the hull, but we're talking 70 ish numbers here. I think Ralphs boat would probably STILL pull off 80+ MPH with a JE pump, maybe more moving the motor back a tad. 

Fair question...Those that know me know that I will never make a statement without being able to back it up, or at least try to back it up.

First off, I never insinuated that it pissed me off....But it is the least efficient Berkeley pump design out there.. Hands down.

The suction piece (hull insert and transition) is the flaw in the whole design, the inlet is steep and short and when speed becomes the desire, this would be the first thing I would change. If you were to hold a round keel or a delta pad Berkeley intake next to an E set up, the differences would hit you like a lightning bolt. The entrance path is completely different and much more abrupt making proper loading at speed possible, but extremely difficult. They do have a descent holeshot though.

I know of very few 80+ MPH boats with a JE. Very few.

My point being, there's NOTHING WRONG with the JE pump. It just does not work like the traditional Berks, nor does it necessarily respond to, or even accept, the typical "hot rod" mods normallly done on those. It is already "set-back" eliminating a ton of work there, it sits much lower in the hull, thereby lowering COG (Can't do that on a JG) AND eliminating the need for "Droop Snoots, etc to get the thrust angle deeper in the water.

The thrust angle is more of a hindrance than a benefit in most cases, I compare it to a very "sloppy" set back. None of the geometry is what I would call desirable. Water does not like to change direction abruptly,  something the JE would like to do twice when compared to the JC/JG config.

It's intake is a little on the smallish side, not much. But if you compare the intake size of a JE to the SUCTION HOUSING inlet size of a JG, they're damn near the same, and the JE has this dimension right in the water. No intake required, No need for inducers......

Longer=more efficient, more efficient many times = faster, better handling and safer.

IMHO, the JE can perform and hang with any JG given the same mods, tests an treatments. Both can and will benefit from loaders and shoes, but boats with the JE need to be handled a little differently. Most of the mods done to boats to move COG to the rear has already been done, etc, etc, etc. I don't get why it's so hated and compared to a Panther???

Panther pumps are a totally different animal. Don't confuse the two together. The JE pump has its purpose, a heavy cruiser that can benefit from more cockpit space due to the setback of the engine, top speed gains were not one of those...IMHO

So I have to respectfully disagree.

From the suction housing back, your JE pump is the same exact animal as every other Berk out there.

Ray

Similar yes. Same no.  You could not simply remove all the nozzle, steering and reverse gate and simply swap them over to a JC. There is a bit more to it than that. The bowls are identical, I agree.

Not trying to discourage anything to the OP, just trying to for warn him that he may be in for one hell of a frustrating journey.

And Ray, no disrespect brother, just defending my comments.....There is a reason you don't see JE's on the circle boat circuit.

GT