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Dyer

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« on: August 12, 2019, 04:56:04 PM »
So i have not put oil in my jet for 3 trips now and on my 4th trip i heard a ( swink ) and my motor just died and wants to crank but something is preventing it from doing so. I just found out about adding oil to the punk. Have oil in motor and never got hot at all. Could i have froze the Berkeley and now it has stopped my motor from cranking?


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« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2019, 05:04:27 PM »
Did you look up in from underneath to see if you sucked up a rope?

Dyer

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« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2019, 05:31:02 PM »
Did you look up in from underneath to see if you sucked up a rope?
I did look under the boat where it intakes the water and i see nothing in there. I did notice it shake a lot out the whole before but didn't know if that was normal

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perryb

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« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2019, 05:50:31 PM »
You'll have to elaborate on "Wants to crank". Does it, or does it not spin over when you twist the key.?  Does it crank but not start, or does it just go "CLUNK" when you twist the key? I would be surprised if the bowl  bushing would stop the engine.

Dyer

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« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2019, 08:32:01 PM »
You'll have to elaborate on "Wants to crank". Does it, or does it not spin over when you twist the key.?  Does it crank but not start, or does it just go "CLUNK" when you twist the key? I would be surprised if the bowl  bushing would stop the engine.
It goes (CLUNK) when i twist the key


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TrollerDave

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« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2019, 10:53:56 PM »
Is there a way for you  to disconnect the pump from the motor?


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Dyer

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« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2019, 06:05:17 AM »
Is there a way for you  to disconnect the pump from the motor?


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I think i have to disconnect the yoke?

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TrollerDave

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« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2019, 11:21:59 AM »
I think i have to disconnect the yoke?

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However you can disconnect the pump. You should be able to turn the pump by hand. It might be a bit tight. Then you can try to start your motor. It will give you a direction to start.
If you disconnect the yoke, will that let you spin the jet? You should be able to slide the coupler down on the pump shaft to maybe give you enough room. Is there no access to get the driveshaft off of the flywheel?


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Dyer

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« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2019, 11:42:42 AM »
However you can disconnect the pump. You should be able to turn the pump by hand. It might be a bit tight. Then you can try to start your motor. It will give you a direction to start.
If you disconnect the yoke, will that let you spin the jet? You should be able to slide the coupler down on the pump shaft to maybe give you enough room. Is there no access to get the driveshaft off of the flywheel?


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I will check to see what room i am working with when i get off work today. Like I said, i am new so trying to figure out best thing to do and how to go about it lol. Thank you for the help so far bro

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TrollerDave

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« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2019, 01:32:34 PM »
What kind of boat and jet? Are you able to post some pics of the back of the motor? 
Random thought, is there a loader or rock grate in the intake of the jet?


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Dyer

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« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2019, 05:26:47 PM »
What kind of boat and jet? Are you able to post some pics of the back of the motor? 
Random thought, is there a loader or rock grate in the intake of the jet?


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Berkeley JE pump i believe, 1990 Commander.

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« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2019, 07:00:46 PM »
So there should be 4 bolts that hold the driveshaft to the flywheel. If you can get those off, itíll separate the jet from the motor. The only problem is getting them if you drop them in the flywheel cover.
If you take it apart at the yoke, would that give you enough room to turn each side separately?


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zonahawk

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« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2019, 07:43:25 PM »
Dyer, Indiana?


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Dyer

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« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2019, 09:03:41 PM »
So there should be 4 bolts that hold the driveshaft to the flywheel. If you can get those off, itíll separate the jet from the motor. The only problem is getting them if you drop them in the flywheel cover.
If you take it apart at the yoke, would that give you enough room to turn each side separately?


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I do not know. Sounds like i should try your way haha. Being careful not to drop them in the flywheel cover ofcourse

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Dyer

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« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2019, 09:04:19 PM »
Dyer, Indiana?


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No, SoCal

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TrollerDave

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« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2019, 09:37:01 PM »
I do not know. Sounds like i should try your way haha. Being careful not to drop them in the flywheel cover ofcourse

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Kind of the blind leading the blind here.

I was hoping someone with more experience would chime in. But that is the easiest way I can think of to separate the two. That way you can isolate and see where the resistance is coming from and go from there.
Unless itís both. Then you just need to figure out how many organs you can sale and still live. 


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« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2019, 06:36:36 AM »
I seriously doubt that not putting oil in the bowl for your last four trips seized the pump to point of locking up.

Usually what happens is, no oil is put in the bowl...  EVER!  Rather than locking up, the shaft and bowl bushings wear badly, until the the bushings wear completely away, followed by the bore in the bowl being destroyed.  Four trips is not going to cause catastrophic failure.

On the other hand, the thrust bearing really should get a lot more attention than it does.  As the name implies, the thrust bearing manages the axial (fore/aft) movement of the shaft.

Ponder this for a moment.  In a pump with an A impeller producing 150 PSI of bowl pressure, the shaft has over 9,542 pounds of force pushing forward.

You actually want to over-grease the thrust bearing.  The idea is to flush moisture out of the bearing.  Yes, you will have to clean up some grease that is forced out around the driveline yoke.  We recommend ten pumps of grease into the thrust bearing every other trip.

A common issue is when operators allow the water level, in their bilge, to rise to the level of the thrust bearing.  The bearing gets pretty warm during operation, when the water level covers the bearing, it cools rapidly, the grease and bearing contracts, causing a low pressure, and moisture finds it way in to corrode the bearing.  Once the bearing experiences a little corrosion damage, it starts to self destruct.

How can this be prevented?  If you know that you got water in the thrust bearing, flush it out with grease at the end of the day.  In an insert pump, don't let it go until the pump self distructs, they are very expensive to replace the suction housing.

More importantly, once the thrust bearing fails, the only thing controlling the thrust forces is the engine thrust bearing.

The thrust main bearing is not intended to control much load.  When the crankshaft is pushed forward, the crankshaft thrust surface is forced against the bearing surface.  These mating surfaces rely on oil leakage from the main journal diameter.  The oil takes the path of least resistance, which is to the front of the thrust main bearing.  The result is hard metal-to-metal contact that sends debris through the engine, destroying everything.

Here are the first things I would do:  1.) Check your oil for metal particles.  2.) Put a breaker bar on your harmonic damper bolt and see if the engine will budge.  3.) Check the condition of your battery, cables, starter, etc.

Should you then want to remove your driveline, you have a two-piece driveline.  There are four nuts and bolts in the middle, holding the two halves together.  There are also the previously mentioned bolts holding the front half of the driveline to the PTO or crankshaft.  Lastly, there are the two u-joint cap u-bolts on the pump shaft yoke.  Be very careful to not drop a u-joint cap and loose the needle bearings.

Hopefully your thrust bearing didn't fail, destroying your engine.  If so, your impeller will have cut into the suction.  It could be pricey.

Good luck
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Dyer

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« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2019, 07:11:24 AM »
I seriously doubt that not putting oil in the bowl for your last four trips seized the pump to point of locking up.

Usually what happens is, no oil is put in the bowl...  EVER!  Rather than locking up, the shaft and bowl bushings wear badly, until the the bushings wear completely away, followed by the bore in the bowl being destroyed.  Four trips is not going to cause catastrophic failure.

On the other hand, the thrust bearing really should get a lot more attention than it does.  As the name implies, the thrust bearing manages the axial (fore/aft) movement of the shaft.

Ponder this for a moment.  In a pump with an A impeller producing 150 PSI of bowl pressure, the shaft has over 9,542 pounds of force pushing forward.

You actually want to over-grease the thrust bearing.  The idea is to flush moisture out of the bearing.  Yes, you will have to clean up some grease that is forced out around the driveline yoke.  We recommend ten pumps of grease into the thrust bearing every other trip.

A common issue is when operators allow the water level, in their bilge, to rise to the level of the thrust bearing.  The bearing gets pretty warm during operation, when the water level covers the bearing, it cools rapidly, the grease and bearing contracts, causing a low pressure, and moisture finds it way in to corrode the bearing.  Once the bearing experiences a little corrosion damage, it starts to self destruct.

How can this be prevented?  If you know that you got water in the thrust bearing, flush it out with grease at the end of the day.  In an insert pump, don't let it go until the pump self distructs, they are very expensive to replace the suction housing.

More importantly, once the thrust bearing fails, the only thing controlling the thrust forces is the engine thrust bearing.

The thrust main bearing is not intended to control much load.  When the crankshaft is pushed forward, the crankshaft thrust surface is forced against the bearing surface.  These mating surfaces rely on oil leakage from the main journal diameter.  The oil takes the path of least resistance, which is to the front of the thrust main bearing.  The result is hard metal-to-metal contact that sends debris through the engine, destroying everything.

Here are the first things I would do:  1.) Check your oil for metal particles.  2.) Put a breaker bar on your harmonic damper bolt and see if the engine will budge.  3.) Check the condition of your battery, cables, starter, etc.

Should you then want to remove your driveline, you have a two-piece driveline.  There are four nuts and bolts in the middle, holding the two halves together.  There are also the previously mentioned bolts holding the front half of the driveline to the PTO or crankshaft.  Lastly, there are the two u-joint cap u-bolts on the pump shaft yoke.  Be very careful to not drop a u-joint cap and loose the needle bearings.

Hopefully your thrust bearing didn't fail, destroying your engine.  If so, your impeller will have cut into the suction.  It could be pricey.

Good luck
Thank you very much for the info. I will do as you listed and hope for the best. Like i said, i am newbie with first jet boat. Bought it with a  ewr 496 stroker thinking i wouldn't have to worry about any motor issues and hear i am after 5 trips out. Time to learn lol

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Dyer

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« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2019, 07:12:23 AM »
Kind of the blind leading the blind here.

I was hoping someone with more experience would chime in. But that is the easiest way I can think of to separate the two. That way you can isolate and see where the resistance is coming from and go from there.
Unless itís both. Then you just need to figure out how many organs you can sale and still live. 


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Garage sale this weekend

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TrollerDave

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« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2019, 09:03:08 AM »
There you go. Solid advice and a tutorial in jet pump care and operation. I wasnít sure about the bolts in the middle of the driveshaft, thatís why I mentioned the ones on the flywheel.
Good luck. Let us know what you find.


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Dyer

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« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2019, 09:32:13 AM »
There you go. Solid advice and a tutorial in jet pump care and operation. I wasnít sure about the bolts in the middle of the driveshaft, thatís why I mentioned the ones on the flywheel.
Good luck. Let us know what you find.


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Dyer

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« Reply #21 on: August 17, 2019, 01:39:43 PM »


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Well I pulled the plugs and found this
Plugs out, disconnected from the jet and NO CRANK still... 

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carlos1977hawaiian

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« Reply #22 on: August 17, 2019, 03:24:29 PM »
Welcome to the jet boat world my brother one trip it runs beautiful and the next time you take it out is nothing but problems. Thatís why they say boat stands for

Bust
Out
Another
Thousand

Good luck and hopefully you find your problem.....


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Dyer

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« Reply #23 on: August 17, 2019, 04:48:10 PM »
Welcome to the jet boat world my brother one trip it runs beautiful and the next time you take it out is nothing but problems. Thatís why they say boat stands for

Bust
Out
Another
Thousand

Good luck and hopefully you find your problem.....


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That it does. Initiation fees. I am now in ( the whole )

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TrollerDave

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« Reply #24 on: August 17, 2019, 08:19:45 PM »
Well I pulled the plugs and found this
Plugs out, disconnected from the jet and NO CRANK still... 

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That SUCKS! Sorry man.
At least now you now where to start.


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