Author Topic: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck (Read 5188 times)

76NORDIC · « **Reply #50 on:** September 19, 2011, 09:30:16 PM »

Good luck Pat, GetRdone

lbhsbz · « **Reply #51 on:** September 19, 2011, 10:09:18 PM »

Yes, you've got it...add beer until it works right.

lbhsbz · « **Reply #52 on:** September 19, 2011, 10:18:48 PM »

....and if it still knocks, add guiness...it's thicker...lol

Shit, I should go to bed

lbhsbz · « **Reply #53 on:** September 20, 2011, 10:55:45 PM »

Ok, engine is out and torn down...cam was about 90 degrees out...cleaning up rust under the bearings on the rods and block...should be back together tomorrow, boat running by Thursday.

Tio Pancho · « **Reply #54 on:** September 21, 2011, 06:11:47 AM »

Pat I take it there was no damage then. I am really curious as to how I put that in that way. Thought I was pretty careful. Let me know how the carb looks.

lbhsbz · « **Reply #55 on:** September 21, 2011, 10:18:11 PM »

Got in a bit deeper. The crank has a few gouges in it...a bad one on #1/2 rod journal, but it's between the bearings so not a big deal except it makes a stress riser...which i'm not sure I should be concerned with since it's only handling one cylinder worth of power being where it is. #8 rod journal on the crank has a nice groove from a piece of crap that found it's way into the bearing. Mains show signs that the line bore has a sag in it in the middle, but I've yet to devise a way to measure it. Crank needs a polish, a new set of bearings, and the big ends of the rods are a little beat up....hammer marks or something, so those need cleaned up. Clearances look alright with existing bearings, but all bearings have the some or more of the coating worn off...except the block side of the #3 main.

enginedoctor · « **Reply #56 on:** September 22, 2011, 09:09:46 PM »

Frank if you and Bebo need any assistance , pleae call me! Here for ya

shop # 1-714 879-1079 / cell 1-562 661-0905.
Or if you have questions!

Tio Pancho · « **Reply #57 on:** September 22, 2011, 09:16:59 PM »

I'm not sure which I should get rid of, the boat or Bebo.

They are both eating me out of house & home.

lbhsbz · « **Reply #58 on:** September 22, 2011, 09:21:59 PM »

It'll be right when it's done the way I want to do it, and I'll stand behind it. Better to spend a little now than a lot later. Took the crank in today to get some water damage/dings cleaned up, and brought home my straight edge to attempt to quantify what i see in the main bearings. There is a definate misalignment issue...3 isn't in line with the rest of em and 4 seems a bit off too...can't come up with a number, but I can feel it. Experience has taught me to go with my gut when I think something isn't right....and while it might work....this kind of bearing wear before the engine has even been fired points to badness once it does fire. I'm taking the block in tomorrow and will supervise a line hone operation
to make sure the mains end up straight to the point where I can't detect a misalignment, then I'll be ready to stand behind the assembly of the engine. I was tempted to slap it together...but everytime I've questioned myself in the past, I've regretted it. I wouldn't do it on my motor and i won't do it on yours.

Here's a dye transfer picture that proves #3 main is a problem....

lbhsbz · « **Reply #59 on:** September 22, 2011, 11:24:19 PM »

The straight edge I used to mark the dye was blued against a AA grade granite surface plate this morning...so for all practical purposes, it's as straight as straight gets.

IRRebel · « **Reply #60 on:** September 23, 2011, 12:27:20 AM »

Pat, and this is more a question than a statement, bro, and I am not really second guessing you, but this is a seasoned block and crank and I value your input and thought into everything. But think seriously through on this thought.

I don't know much about BBC engines, I'll conceed that all day long, but I'm going to assume the same applies from Mopar and Ford blocks as well in that they are all odd fire from the corners and sequential fire in the center. BBC firing order is 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 if I'm not mistaken. Same as Ford, a little different from Mopar, BUT, sequential firing on center cylinders is the same but where ALL the also-mentioned engines have MUCH larger main journals than a BBC has.

Anyway, my point is, is it NOT conceivable that this "bow" in the center main journals is normal and compensated for, since that is where the vast majority of crankshaft deflection is going to occur, given the constant pounding the center (really, the #3 gets the pounding and #4 worse than #2 because of harmonics) journals receive on a routine basis? A seasoned block is not a factory block, we can at least agree on that, but given the bulk of the devastational forces of a BBC on it's crankshaft and reciprocating assemblies lie in the center 4 cylinders, which we can also agree on, would it not make sense IF you can determine (and you will if you can measure it) the crank is also somewhat twisted from it's stock state to account for this naturally?

In a nutshell, unless your dealing with a NEW block and NEW crank, a little extra clearance in #2 main, more in #3, and at least the same in #4 if not more, makes perfect sense to me.

Ray

lbhsbz · « **Reply #61 on:** September 23, 2011, 09:29:57 AM »

The way I see it, if every critical surface was re-machined...it doesn't matter how seasoned the block is. Seasoned blocks are better, because they're generally about done moving around, so any machine work should stay where you put it. The block can be beat to hell, but that's why we go through and reset all the critical dimensions...and they should be in the right place after the machining operations.

This block has had the caps cut and has been align honed...in which case, the mains should be straight. Going through the trouble to work on the mains and have them misaligned in the end seems counterproductive. We're not after shiney here...we're after straight. I will throw a block away before I align hone it for this very reason...align honing is an art, and few people can do it right.

Here's a shitty picture of the bearings.

There's pretty even wear on all but #3.... a little more than I'd expect to see under these circumstances, but nothing to cause concern. I'm going to reuse them all, even the #3 bearing. The oil clearances are perfect. Keep in mind, this engine has never been started, and the crank probably hasn't turned 50 times in these bearings. It also had no compression (cam timing) so I'd say that the crank has never had any load on it since it was ground 30/30....the crank is dead straight...I checked it.

My thoughts are...if there's this kind of uneven wear in the #3 bearing when no load whatsoever has been introduced the crank...it'll probably get destroyed as soon as this thing gets put under load. It might not, but that's a chance I'll let some other engine builder take....I figure if I make it as right as I can before assembly, it'll have the best chances.

lbhsbz · « **Reply #62 on:** September 23, 2011, 11:05:46 AM »

Quote from: IRRebel on September 23, 2011, 12:27:20 AM

Pat, and this is more a question than a statement, bro, and I am not really second guessing you, but this is a seasoned block and crank and I value your input and thought into everything. But think seriously through on this thought.

I don't know much about BBC engines, I'll conceed that all day long, but I'm going to assume the same applies from Mopar and Ford blocks as well in that they are all odd fire from the corners and sequential fire in the center. BBC firing order is 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 if I'm not mistaken. Same as Ford, a little different from Mopar, BUT, sequential firing on center cylinders is the same but where ALL the also-mentioned engines have MUCH larger main journals than a BBC has.

Anyway, my point is, is it NOT conceivable that this "bow" in the center main journals is normal and compensated for, since that is where the vast majority of crankshaft deflection is going to occur, given the constant pounding the center (really, the #3 gets the pounding and #4 worse than #2 because of harmonics) journals receive on a routine basis? A seasoned block is not a factory block, we can at least agree on that, but given the bulk of the devastational forces of a BBC on it's crankshaft and reciprocating assemblies lie in the center 4 cylinders, which we can also agree on, would it not make sense IF you can determine (and you will if you can measure it) the crank is also somewhat twisted from it's stock state to account for this naturally?

I agree with you that the center mains take a pounding. This is also a block that has probably never seen more than about 30 or 40 or so hp per cylinder in it's life...with that in mind, I don't see this block being distorted to this point, but it's a valid point for engines that have seen some hp and actually rather common on diesel stuff. I've just never seen any permanent block distortion on gasser stuff....doesn't mean it can't happen though. I don't necessarily follow you on the "compensated for " part though. How would that work? I suppose you could simply make the center mains larger and add oil clearance, but then you are solving one problem by adding another. The crank twist wouldn't matter unless it was also bent, which would have showed up on both halves of the bearing...not just the block side. Regardless, all of it was machined, and the objective behind machining a block is to correct things that are not correct, and straigten things that are not straight. It should now straight, and it's not. It's far from straight. The work was not checked before the block left the machine shop....or maybe it was and the problem was ignored....plain and simple.

Quote

In a nutshell, unless your dealing with a NEW block and NEW crank, a little extra clearance in #2 main, more in #3, and at least the same in #4 if not more, makes perfect sense to me.

Ray

I'd rather have a seasoned block and a used crank....the block is done moving and the crank has been tested, with proper machine work, they will work better than new. New only means that nobody has blowed it up before....plenty of new parts out there that are junk and need work right outta the box.

SoCalPSD · « **Reply #63 on:** December 08, 2011, 10:33:51 AM »

How's this thing comin?

Fat fingered from the phone-Corey

Tio Pancho · « **Reply #64 on:** December 08, 2011, 11:43:37 AM »

Funny you should ask. We actually got it fired up last weekend thanks to Pat. Sounded pretty good, and Bebo was delirious happy. Carb was leaking down too much fuel, so we put on a 770 dual feed that my buddy had and it worked great. Its a vac secondary w/ choke, but don't tell Pat. Need to order the correct sending units for oil press and water temp, then its out to test!

We had a little fire at my house day after thanksgiving so we have been living at a hotel since. We will post up some video this weekend for sure.

SoCalPSD · « **Reply #65 on:** March 06, 2012, 10:17:11 PM »

So what's goin on?

Fat fingered from the phone- Corey

Bebo · « **Reply #66 on:** March 07, 2012, 05:34:33 PM »

wow thanks guys i really appreciate it!

We got the boat going took it out to elsinore. The valve for the water intake was broken and wasnt open and we didnt know it so it got super hot! the sensor plastic inside of it melted out so we ordered new one of those and new valve to! Havnt takin it out since. We are finishing up getting the alternator wired too. Other then that its set to go again. when it ran it ran great! Thanks for the support guys

Bebo

lbhsbz · « **Reply #67 on:** March 07, 2012, 08:29:23 PM »

Ahhhh...yer killin me !

If you got it that hot, please make damn sure you retorque all the headbolts.....don't just put a torque wrench on 'em and make it click....back them all off 1/2 turn, then retorque, one at a time. Felpro blues are good headgaskets, but they can't hang in a marine engine with no cooling for more than a minute or so....they get hot under load, and quick. Start at one end of the head...put a paint pen dot on each bolt, them put a second dot as you loosen and re-torque to make sure you didn't miss any. Order isn't really important, just do all of them.

lbhsbz · « **Reply #68 on:** March 07, 2012, 08:47:24 PM »

Nevermind...you ran it until it quit, it's most likely cooked. I'll be surprised if it still spins. Warranty is now void...LOL

Author Topic: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck (Read 5188 times)

76NORDIC

Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck

lbhsbz

Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck

lbhsbz

Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck

lbhsbz

Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck

Tio Pancho

Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck

lbhsbz

Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck

enginedoctor

Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck

Tio Pancho

Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck

lbhsbz

Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck

lbhsbz

Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck

IRRebel

Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck

lbhsbz

Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck

lbhsbz

Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck

SoCalPSD

Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck

Tio Pancho

Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck

SoCalPSD

Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck

Bebo

Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck

lbhsbz

Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck

lbhsbz

Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck