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The tread asking about types of racing got me thinking so I thought I would throw it out there.
Car racing has gone a long way with series races and spec classes and the outboard guys seem to have joined in the game but there has been a real reluctance in the inboard ranks aside from APBA Hydro classes.
Here is my idea... Two classes.
PRJ (Personal Racing Jetboats). 16' mod V sealed injected small blocks basically stock running on pump gas. Run 10 miles with traditional APBA 5 minute countdown starts. Set it up like Legend cars, one hull type, one sealed motor, one pump spec. This would be an inexpensive Breeder class. I would hope to get a turn key boat to cost +- $25k.
PJ (Pro Jet). Open hull designs, single motors up to 512CI, Aluminum blocks ok, alcohol ( promote "green" racing), canopies (promote "safe" racing), open pump designs. Run 100 miles with APBA 5 minute starts. Pit stop refueling. More like world of outlaw cars with pit stops. Run a circuit of say 10 races a year. This would be a true pro class capable of having TV coverage (hence the length) with sponsorship capabilities.
Any comments?
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I think you just created a completly new organization .
After Joe Schmoe see's it and realizes how budget freindly it is .
Dare I say it :sly:
-beerjet-
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imagine crashes in the pits! :o
sounds like a great idea.
Another class: PFRJ (Personal Family Racing Jetboat, must be your weekend family boat!)
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I think you on to something there.
I crew'd for and raced in the ASA Speed Truck Challenge ( www.speedtruck.com ) using sealed "spec" engines. I for one think that it makes since to have a spec class.
The unfortunate part of a spec engine class is that the guys with resources will buy and dyno multiple engines to get the one or two that are better then sell off the rest to the other guys.
The other issue is going to be that every hull will need to be blue-printed to verify consistancy or the under performing guy will be trying to blame the hull (because he won't admit it's the driver).
Good luck
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Throw all the "stones" you want but my entire family would really appreciate some type of noise limits.
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The sealed engines idea comes right out of Legends cars. there are only approved engine providers and they are checked for matched power, sealed and sold through a trade in policy. The rich guys can go Pro Jet or stick to Comp Jet racing.
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Noise is an issue especially if we could identify enough "urban" sites to put races on (thinking of Town Lake, Austin TX or Tempe AZ or on the river downtown Chicago). I would see no problem with the spec class to have through hull wet headers. Pro Jet ether needs the noise or maybe make it a turbo class?
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More thoughts...
PRJ hulls standard fiberglass single design. weighed and balanced and tested before delivery. Possibly a rental arrangement for the guy who can't buy his own ( also done with Legend cars).
PJ hulls like f-1 outboards. cutting edge modular carbon fiber vacume bagged certainly not a CJ (keep that as is). Pit strategy and how you do that could be interesting and exciting from a TV coverage point of view. Think of a guy coming into the pit "channel" (at a reduced speed) and throwing down the reverse bucket swinging into a pit box then getting refueled like an Indy car and flying out in 10 seconds. The spray, the jet blast blowing crewmen out of the water, avoiding other guys doing the same thing... (Seeing a Jack Roush kind of guy with hat and unlit cigar dripping whet on top of a pit box would be hilarious!)
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I think you on to something there.
I crew'd for and raced in the ASA Speed Truck Challenge ( www.speedtruck.com ) using sealed "spec" engines. I for one think that it makes since to have a spec class.Â
The unfortunate part of a spec engine class is that the guys with resources will buy and dyno multiple engines to get the one or two that are better then sell off the rest to the other guys.
The other issue is going to be that every hull will need to be blue-printed to verify consistancy or the under performing guy will be trying to blame the hull (because he won't admit it's the driver).
Good luck
what team did you pit for? i used to pit for asa speed trucks too!
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what team did you pit for? i used to pit for asa speed trucks too!
I got pulled out of crew chief retirement to help Scott Saunders with the #40 truck and his rental #4 truck. Later helped Robert Kroeker in the #58 truck and I drove the #29 truck when we could afford it.
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This is overall IMO a good idea..I like it. The sprint boat guys may be a good place to start, they are always looking for ways to promote the sport and they sort of already have a "closed course" venue. May be able to pick their brains and get an idea of how to get started.
The biggest problem I see is "yellows" legend cars are a lot different than a boat, in way more ways than one, fueling in the water, no matter what fuel your using will not fly at most locations, especially in Cali. Also this type of racing at any length will have longevity issues, spec motors or not, there is a "crate motor" class in the Whitewater Marathon game, both a BB and a SB class, you would think the boats would be pretty closely matched, but the opposite is true, you would have to moniter/police this very hard, that takes many people to accomplish, so the dedication level would have to be very high.
I would love to see something like this take off, but honestly right now given the state of the economy and your main sponsor base being on the verge of bancruptcy, I would not hold my breath, hell even NASCAR is hurting financially..
Good luck!
GT
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my buddy terry young had the purple number 4 truck we raced in 05
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I agee about the economy and this would not be the best time to debut something like this, but if this was to happen this is the time to plan and design it. Costs to design and build a buch of boats is comming down. and slow times are when people want some good entertainment. The time to spring this is when the economy is coming out of the pit. The guys who spend thousends to have a family boat and a race boat or have a fourteen year old who wants to race, this could be the cheepest way to do it. But like Legends it's main use would be a breeder class, and sealed engines would work. Licenced engine builders would have to build the motors within spec or loose credibility with his other clients. Now I have a question. What would you guys say of a rental race boat going for say $500 per weekend? You show up and drive everything else is done. sound fair?
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I think showing a (for example) Stocker SBC 16' boat class on a short course 10 lapper or less would be a great way to get this started .
Everything is realativly inexpensive and not far off from waht were doing now so broken parts could be aquired on any weekend .
I'm probably way off , but I like what your saying .
-beerjet-
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Now I have a question. What would you guys say of a rental race boat going for say $500 per weekend? You show up and drive everything else is done. sound fair?
I think $500.00 per weekend is gonna be way to cheep considering what is going to be involved.
When we would rent out my truck it would go for between $2000.00-$4000.00 rental fee plus a $4000.00-$5000.00 crash deposit. The fees would vary depending on where the race was (towing costs), how many days (Friday practice, Saturday race or Saturday only), and how many people were needed to support the vehicle (if you bring your own crew or come alone).
If you can supply a competitive boat at the water for $500.00 per race weekend I would be interested in running one.
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Sorry bout the confusion on pit stops. That would only be for Pro Jet not PRJ. And if we had to pull them out for refueling it could only work if we had a long ramp like Bulewater before the casino. But development of a spillproof refill would be my hope.
As far as $500 / race, I was thinking if that was attainable that would mean $5k / year for the whole series plus travel, motels, food etc. A guy could see if he liked the racing and step up to ownership if he likes it. The profitability of providing a boat for $500 might be a BIG problem. Depends on how the whole thing goes together. Again I was taking the Legend Cars as a model.
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when i was reading this it imediately came to mind that renting a boat like this could be a really good idea, getting joe shmoe some seat time is an awesome idea...however another way to bring profit is to make these joe shmoe to certify...meaning a place a business were they need to take a class and certify to drive them...i couldnt justify just some joe going there hoping in a race boat and takin off...the possibility of it ending up wrecked and what not...or god forbid hurting others is serious business...i think paying for the rental of the boat should exclude fuel and other such items...meaning you should make these boats run on 91 then they can bring their own and put it into a "spill proof" can...these were things that went through my mind...im all for it...it reminds me of richard petty experience amongst others...
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The Legend Cars require approval to race which includes a certification class where they learn the rules and get seat time in a non racing environment. I think the rentals were rented "wet" but refilling was up to the racer. There was also a deposit, I think, for damages and of course a rather comprehensive release form. Rookie rules still apply. Pump gas I would want as a class rule to help keep costs down. What I've been thinking of about the PRJ class now is the details of the class. Loader, plate, shoe, are are they allowed and can you dink with them? Are you allowed to jet the carbs? My first thought was no to all to keep the costs again under control but it might be a better learning environment to allow it all. Should it be possible to rent the safety equipment, (jacket & helmet) or should that be part of the price of admission? What do you all think?
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A big part of the rental deal is going to be getting the boat to the water. When we rented a truck the fee included delivery to the track and return to shop. If you're renting a single boat, that is not as difficult as renting several at a time. But, I don't think each renter is going to want to pick up at a shop and tow to the races them selves.
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Please don't get me wrong, I think it is a great idea and should be followed up on, I just don't want you to under estimate the per race costs.
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I would say we are a loooong way off at setting a rental price.
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Didnt LifeLine rent equipment at one time at the races ?
Definately take some kind of comprehensive test or course before hopping in a boat .
Maybe even a day of "Qualifying" one at a time type of laps to see if these guys can even handle a ride .
A cert should be given and a certain amount of races a year should be driven to keep it .
-beerjet-
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OK been having problems with pix's lately but I'll try to show you the first iteration of the PRJ boat.
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Since that one worked...
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Hi Tom !
Is that a Russian Chevy ???
Spelling is a little funky :-\
-beerjet-
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Took the chevy model from an on line site and pasted it into the model I take no responsibility for accuracy of anything at this time!!! ;D
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These are huge ideas .
As soon as the people see a glimmer of economic hope ,
things could happen .
I'll retreat back to my hole now .
-beerjet-
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Model is 15'-9" and 6'-7" wide Room for two so I can sell them as a river boat too but then I'll have to make the Coast Guard happy with flotation and lights and cleats and... triple the price.
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I would think rental would include delivery to the track and I could see stacking six or so boats in an enclosed trailer but launching them for the races could get to be a problem. Just a bunch of details to work out.
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I'm really over the top with this now. I've modeled up the PRJ with an accurate small block, Interior wood floor, steering, gauges, gas tank and a bit of color. I think it's got both new and old school in it. Stable new hull design, Old school layout. Being as small as it is costs are looking to be pretty low. SeaDo has a twin engined jet about the same size selling between $15-$20k. I think that would be a good goal for the two seater. Racer would be less.
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Got some more views
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This brings to mind something I thought of a couple of years ago.
They have Senior PGA golf, Senior LPGA golf. They talked about Senior Baseball and football leagues, probably with flags.
Why not Senior Nascar????
Think about it, call it the Depends cup! Toss these old ex-racers in Buick Park Avenues and LeSabres, Ford Crown Victorias, and Chevy Caprices, and limit the race to 50 Miles. No in car hydration system, but an incar Cathater or colostomy bag could be susbstituted.
The track could be littered with School crossings, bus stops and Lane Restrictions. The Pace car could either be a golf cart or a Jazzy Scooter, and Pit Road would include a CVS drive-Thru.
Just my .02
Ray
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Well I've spent too much time on this but here is another shot so far. The small block is true to scale now with a lot more detail (even AN fittings and 9mm plug wires). Battery isn't hooked up yet. Motor is based on Edelbrock crate motor with Victor Jr. intake and 650 Holly upgrade. Also dolled up the paint. If loto comes in or that Saudi Prince sends that $10million he promised me in that e-mail they should be ready for next season.
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i love it i absolutely love it...this is becoming more realistic
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I thought you guys needed a view that would give you a sense of scale. If you all rush in and put down large deposits to hold your delivery we can start building the plug (for the boat) right away.
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I love the play on words Tom !
"Aire Craft"
Boat Works.
I love it !
I'm still in if you feel like building one out of wood for a plug.
-beerjet-
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Thanks beerjet but it's "Kraft" with a K. Started that moniker years ago when I designed a deck cleat that fliped under the deck and was flush when stowed. Under capitalized, life's story. The stock river version will be equipped with them.
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P.S. If I find a new job I'm thinking of building a running prototype out of wood then pulling a mold off of it.