SoCal Jet Boats
Discussion => Boat Racing => Topic started by: Brad @ SCJB on September 28, 2012, 04:39:24 PM
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What do you guys think of this new rule being proposed? Changes are in BOLD Its still up for vote from current members of the class. I have yet to cast my vote...still feeling it out. This is open for constructive discussion.
2. Power to be supplied by one (1) U.S. Built automotive or light truck engine including aftermarket parts with the following limitations:
A. Cast iron blocks with a maximum displacement of 515 cubic inches are allowed.
B. OEM aluminum engine blocks with a maximum displacement of 475 cubic inches and a maximum bore spacing of 4.400" are allowed. Aftermarket aluminum blocks are not allowed.
C. Aluminum cylinder heads are optional.
D. Chevrolet big block engines must use common wall intake port cylinder heads designed and machined for use with a 4.849" bore spacing.
E. A maximum of two (2) valves per cylinder is allowed. No overhead cams allowed. All intake manifold bases must be cast for a minimum distance of three (3) inches from the intake to cylinder head interface or spacer plate. No restrictions on valve train or oiling systems.
F. Naturally aspirated, any form of carburetion or fuel injection is allowed.
G. Engine must be located forward of the jet drive.
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its for the small blocks, but, i fell they should have a weight penalty if they want to use them.. hell, there should be a minimum weight for the boats running in the class.
just my .02
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yah i would think that if theres no weight penalty there is a definite advantage.
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The proposed rule change includes a 40 cubic inch penalty to offset the lighter weight and limits them to small block factory available blocks only. Should be no problem with that...
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what does said aluminum block weigh?
750-800hp small block, but then again i guess you could build a 1000hp big block if your wallet is big enough
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I know I'm kinda new to this but isn't rule G kinda obvious?
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I know I'm kinda new to this but isn't rule G kinda obvious?
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this is racing and if its not in the rules racers will try it
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Just like in NASCAR
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The proposed rule change includes a 40 cubic inch penalty to offset the lighter weight and limits them to small block factory available blocks only. Should be no problem with that...
yah but corvette has a really nice small block that is aluminum . there all kinds of power to be made out of it. even with a cubic limitation . in my opinion weight is a huge disadvantage. light faster smarter!
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I know I'm kinda new to this but isn't rule G kinda obvious?
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Trying to keep it simple.... I remember way back when, they were putting jet drive units in all sorts of different places..I would be willing to bet the "(1) US built" in rule 2 came in at the same time as the engine in front of the jet drive... :sly:
You have to understand that these rules are written because of someone trying something others considered cheating...
You know what they say about stupid rules..... It's always because someone did something stupid. ;)
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yah but corvette has a really nice small block that is aluminum . there all kinds of power to be made out of it. even with a cubic limitation . in my opinion weight is a huge disadvantage. light faster smarter!
that was my point, shirl runs a corvette motor so it was only a matter of time
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Can the bearing surface of an LS live through a CJ race? If it can...kick ass. Usable BBC blocks are getting hard to find...(usable by my standards)...keep up with the times or get left behind. I'd gladly lose some cubes to go to a more efficient head with a much more efficient smaller bore. I'd approve of the rule changes.
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I voted yes for 475 alum. small block with the CI restriction.
Giving up 40ci's is huge.
I could pick up one of those blocks for a lot less then I paid for my Dart block.
I also feel it would help bring in some new racers who can identify with this motor more than the BB's of the 70's.
Good used BB's are getting harder to come by, so you are almost forced to buy a new block.
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Looks to me that the second rule is aimed directly at LSX motors. Particularly, the LS427 (LS7), although I haven't heard of any done in the 475 CI range. Probably possible though.
I guess my first question would be, Define OEM. Did the block have to come from a production vehicle, or can it simply come from GM, Ford, etc. and their Performance divisions? GMPP does NOT make an aluminum version of it's LSX block. At least as of yet.
The other side of that is the first line wherin the cast iron LSX (454 and much bigger) block WOULD be allowed, as I read it, and as Pat says, would be a welcome addition for the same reasons.
I know the LS2 can be re-sleeved to become an LS7, but I haven't heard of an aluminum block (other than aftermarket like RHS, which may well be why this rule and how it's worded) capable of what GM's iron LSX block can be bored and stroked to.
I don't see a downside to it, weight restrictions or not. If you think about it, it's splitting hairs, really, when y'alls boats have different hull weights to begin with, equipment, setup, fuel capacity, and in drivers alone, picture tossing Ralph in one and Daniel (Willowog) in another. The difference in engine weight from a cast iron big block with aluminum heads to an aluminum LS engine becomes less critical. As Ron says, will likely bring new blood into the class and at the same time keep the big dollar machines out, which is what the class is about anyway.
SHOUTOUT! That's not picking on you Ralph, I probably outweigh you these days, bro! ;)
Ray
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no worries Ray :thumbup:
i think the small blocks will have a a big advantage. It is progress for the class and Im not against it ;) i dont feel you will get any new racers because of it but, we will have to see how it pans out.
ill be watching from the beach
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it looks like a sign of modern times and technology. in the end most camps that win usually have the money.its just a step in the right direction and should make for some interesting racing and set ups. if those that cant afford to keep up with the big dogs and still want to have fun get the nastalgia class going again :thumbup:. i feel in the end its all about good friends and racers having a good time
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On a side note........I guess those rules also stop anybody from running a Viper V-10 in one of the things too huh? :screwy:
Ray
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do they have a steel block under 515 cu. in.?????????
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do they have a steel block under 515 cu. in.?????????
Under 515, but no, aluminum sir! ;)
Ray
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still want to have fun get the nastalgia class going again :thumbup:. i feel in the end its all about good friends and racers having a good time
working on it ;) :thumbup:
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475" aluminum block won't be competitive with 515" in a "more torque" wins form of racing. Handling is another issue and semi-v's like are being run don't handle as well in rough (circle type) water if too light. All things considered go ahead and allow them they will not hurt the class won't win at least for a while and will possibly help build the class.
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A 40Ci handicap for 200lbs are you kidding me :screwy: If you guys only knew the hp that a 475 hp lasx can produve with its great (MODERN) cylinder head youd guys would think twice especialy since a decent bbc, bbf can easily produce 1.2hp per ci and there making 1.3 na with the new ls factory heads so I VOTED NO but I'm only one voice and probably the only person who actually researched ls/lsx motors. I under stand the block cost I use 30+yo bbf blocks cause I cant afford 3k+ A460 blocks So I make due with what is available. I still believe the class should be restricted back to 500ci and have a minum weight of 1850lbs after a heat race
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Sore Loser :'(
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wow, 1.2 to 1.3 per ci.........you guys need to go back to school and learn how to build some power. those kinda numbers aint gonna get you up front in this class. back to the ole drawing board ay.
glad to see some people actually posting on this site. whats up with the 300 and thanksgiving race, whos gonna make them, come on lets see a show of hands out their :thumbup:
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Probably sit most of this season out again.
Tom running for US-1?
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Compared to other racing venues I've been involved in, why not just make the boat weight have a minimum with driver, and not restrict the engine size? Would cover alot more than just aluminum blocks. Possibly could cover future Kevlar boats, ultra light unsafe boats, etc. Just hook up a scale, everyone has to weigh this, this is the engine size you're allowed, now go for it. Seems simpler to me, just my 2 cents. :thumbup:
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Compared to other racing venues I've been involved in, why not just make the boat weight have a minimum with driver, and not restrict the engine size? Would cover alot more than just aluminum blocks. Possibly could cover future Kevlar boats, ultra light unsafe boats, etc. Just hook up a scale, everyone has to weigh this, this is the engine size you're allowed, now go for it. Seems simpler to me, just my 2 cents. :thumbup:
I like this. Wouldn't be hard to do, simply weigh the boat/trailer at the launch ramp then weigh the trailer after. Easy math from there.
Tony has a point in, let's face it, in Nascar, Tony Stewart outweighs 2 Kasey Kanes.................. :sly:
Ray
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Bad form to require a promoter to have scales for one class that unfortunately is not that strong yet. If you had so many boats you needed to qualify for the heats and if the class was nation wide then scales would not be that significant to the guys putting on the race. (With that kind of interest it would be a professional event with things like prize money! What a concept...)
I think that opening up the rules is fine just be prepared for what you get. I would hope that if someone was so passionate about it they would put one together and test it to see if it's competitive. Even if it didn't test well it would be a fun river boat.
As far as the weight savings Alum. over Iron and assuming scales are not involved I'm sure that enough weight can be saved in a hull to make up the difference. ( read vac. bagged, Epoxy/Carbon/Kevlar). Have fun with this subject it's a good one.
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I think that opening up the rules is fine just be prepared for what you get. I would hope that if someone was so passionate about it they would put one together and test it to see if it's competitive. Even if it didn't test well it would be a fun river boat.
I've been running cast iron block LS based engines in my Comp Jet (CJ60) for two years now. I now have a 454 cid LS aluminum engine in the boat now just waiting for this rule to be approved. It will not be super competitive, but it will be fun. I plan to run it in Nostalgia Jet at Parker and if the rule is approved in January I will run the boat in CJ at Puddingstone.
I'm hoping that we will have a few boats come out and run NJ with me... How about it Brad and Ron? There is a rumour that there might be a sponsor that will pay the entry fee's for all NJ entrants... A great way to introduce new drivers that will step up to Comp Jet... Lets show some interest and the sponsor may come forward... Just sayin'
Shirl Dickey
CJ60
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Shirl I know you know the small block & LS better than anyone and I figured if anyone would give it a shot it would be you. Good luck, have fun. By the way does anyone on this site besides us old guys know what your "Eracer" means?