SoCal Jet Boats
Tech Talk => Engine Mechanical / Electrical => Topic started by: j1mmy420 on April 13, 2014, 10:39:01 PM
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well i took the badfish to lake elsinore today. had to get towed in. engine began to knock. by the time i noticed it was too late.
the motor shut down on me and it does not look good at all. there a whole in the oil pan. engine still turns over but knocks but does not start.
i dont know where to begin. i need everyones suggestions /opinions/options on this one.
i have never rebuilt an engine before but have done a couple swaps on classic cars.
biggest problem is going to be cashflow.
everyone what are my options i do t wsmt to miss this season
thanks in advance
jimmy
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Get another one sbc are cheap
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well i took the badfish to lake elsinore today. had to get towed in. engine began to knock. by the time i noticed it was too late.
the motor shut down on me and it does not look good at all. there a whole in the oil pan. engine still turns over but knocks but does not start.
i dont know where to begin. i need everyones suggestions /opinions/options on this one.
i have never rebuilt an engine before but have done a couple swaps on classic cars.
biggest problem is going to be cashflow.
everyone what are my options i do t wsmt to miss this season
thanks in advance
jimmy
I use G&S machine shop in rialto. $450 gets your crank turned, new bearings, new pistons, valve job, on your heads, new(stock) cam and a gasket set. Rebuilding a sbc is fairly simple with the right tools and a torque wrench. Your motor is shot anyway might as well tear into it and learn a thing or two.
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Question... How much can you spend?
I have put in at least eight ZZ350's with better than great results. You can buy a short block for just over $2k and a ready to run for just over $3k. You can't build one for that.
JMHO
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So basically money will be the issue in my case. I going to give g&s a call. I don't mind tearing it down and rebuilding myself. I should have the tools needed.
Anything else I can rent or borrow. Or I'll look for someone's used engine.
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So basically money will be the issue in my case. I going to give g&s a call. I don't mind tearing it down and rebuilding myself. I should have the tools needed.
Anything else I can rent or borrow. Or I'll look for someone's used engine.
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ask for Luis. He usually gets in around 10am. Tell him Anthony sent you. Another good machine shop is Brothers auto center in Ontario. Price won't be too different. If u need any help don't be afraid to ask. There is a lot of knowledge on here. Good luck👍👍👍
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Thank you bbhhawIian18
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I am in the high desert
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I am in the high desert
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Where at I have a short block with a good rotate assembly good block need to be cleaned up out of 70 camaro
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I am in Victorville near the college
Might be interested in that short block
I feel so lost right now
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You need to find out what happened to that sbc, with a windowed pan, the block is probably trashed too.
What HP do you have, what impeller?
A roller suburban short block with decent heads, (64cc's, like vortec or 612's) aluminum intake, 750 holley, will make 325 hp all day long.
A ZZ4 is a good option, too $$$
Good luck,
Dan'l
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It was my fault. Low on oil.
Dammit!
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It's basically a stock sbc from the 70s
With basic bolt ons. Not much horse power but enough to get the 26' float plus 4-5 pasengers plus gear and beer up to about 45-50 at about 5500rpms Berkeley jet
Not sure about the impeller
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I meant 4500rpms sorry
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I have access to a running 454 that came out of an RV with 50k miles.
Is that a bad idea?
I just want to get back on the water lol
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I have access to a running 454 that came out of an RV with 50k miles.
Is that a bad idea?
I just want to get back on the water lol
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are you kidding me it runs throw it in there and have a blast this summer then worry about it over winter
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I like the way you think rush1
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Will the motor mount work ? I thought a bbc is a little wider
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It should the only thing is the exhaust is different
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Is this a 4 point mount setup? If so the front mount is different between bbc and SBC.
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Not sure. I plan on geting in there this weekend to access the damage and take some photos and get some numbers off the block and heads so I can see what I am working with.
If anyone has an extra motor they would want to sell. Please feel free to let me know
Thanks everyone
Jimmy
760-498-1403
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The 454 is fuel injected. if the motor even fits without too much complication is this even an option? I also found a fresh rebuilt 350 short block for a decent price. What would I be able to use from my old engine with having to rebuild Heads etc...
sorry for so many questions but this is beyond my knowledge of engine/boat repair
thanks again .
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are you kidding me it runs throw it in there and have a blast this summer then worry about it over winter
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X2
from my phone
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Jimmy drop that 454 in there buy some exhaust and an intake manifold and basically your done
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You can't run the injection on that 454 it's not worth the hassle if you're on a budget
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Short list-
need:
water pump block off plates or crossover
logs and snails and hoses to transom, or headers
intake manifold
possibly a carb
front motor plate for bbc
chevelle or jet boat bbc oil pan, truck pan is too tall.
fuel pump, may have to go electric. (most fuel injected blocks dont have a fuel pump boss on the block)
alt. bracket
plug wires
Can re-use:
distributor
rear motor plate
driveline
starter
alternator & belt
balancer pulley
t-stat housing
sending units for gauges
oil drain hose/plug
that's all I can think of, there's prolly more...
Dan'l
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Wow awesome responses thank you so much. Here are some pictures of my engine in its current state. One of the pictures shows the hole in the oil pan
I know it's not pretty. But let me know your thoughts thanks
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Thats a "different" alt set-up... Kinda cool though.
My advice would be to just find another small block, and run it! Its gonna be the cheapest and quickest route since you are already setup for that- IMO.
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I dig the alt set up. I built one of those for a customers early hot rod it was like a 29 sedan or something like that can't remember now. I made brackets that mounted off a 9" ford rear end welded a pulley to the yolk. It worked out cool.
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Xx
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I do get that response a lot regarding the Alt setup.
Ok so I am on the hunt for another 350.
I plan to pull the motor this weekend and access the damage. This particular motor has low hours/miles too.
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Xx
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sorry had the app open in my pocket
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I do get that response a lot regarding the Alt setup.
Ok so I am on the hunt for another 350.
I plan to pull the motor this weekend and access the damage. This particular motor has low hours/miles too.
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I think that will be the quickest way to get back on the water. Good luck bro
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Would a 327 from a 68 camero work?
I found a good deal on a fresh rebuild
Let me know what you all think
To small? It's a long lock has pan to intake needs carb
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Would a 327 from a 68 camero work?
I found a good deal on a fresh rebuild
Let me know what you all think
To small? It's a long lock has pan to intake needs carb
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I don't know why not.
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No real difference in power between stock-ish 327 and 350. There are some old timers that swore by the bore/stroke ratio of the 327's but either can be built into a much better 383 down the road.
More importantly to you is what the bearing clearances were set at in any motor you are looking at. Honestly you might be better off with a motor that has a bunch of miles on it than one that is sold as "a fresh rebuild". With more mileage comes the assurance that it was built well enough and the bearing clearances if not "jetboat" right when new are at least looser now which is better for you.
Best idea yet is look for a Cheby 400 small block. We ran one for years and years after we wore out the 350. A dozen kids who all ski and tube will put some mileage on a boat let me tell you. :thumbup:
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No real difference in power between stock-ish 327 and 350.
The 327 will have to run slightly more rpm than the 350, the impeller might need to be trimmed...
Dan'l
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I recommend a Vortec head SBC from a 96-00 truck. Fix or replace your oil pan (and pump pickup), swap in an RPM or AirGap intake (and maybe your carb), your ignition, and enjoy. Plenty of upgrades available when/if you are interested.
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I recommend a Vortec head SBC from a 96-00 truck. Fix or replace your oil pan (and pump pickup), swap in an RPM or AirGap intake (and maybe your carb), your ignition, and enjoy. Plenty of upgrades available when/if you are interested.
X2 i read somewhere that a 5.3 vortec makes about the same power as a 454
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I recommend a Vortec head SBC from a 96-00 truck. Fix or replace your oil pan (and pump pickup), swap in an RPM or AirGap intake (and maybe your carb), your ignition, and enjoy. Plenty of upgrades available when/if you are interested.
His oil pan won't fit a 1 pc. rear main block (010), but a Vortec truck pan will work. The drive line at the crank is different on a 1 pc. rear main block, too.
Vortec headed sbc's run real good in a squirt boat, I'd also go roller cam at this point, too :thumbup:
Dan'l
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X2 i read somewhere that a 5.3 vortec makes about the same power as a 454
I agree 5.3's are pretty impressive. But a 5.3 is based on LS architecture, it's a totally different motor.
The vortec Flusher is referring to is a 5.7l 350 thats the same basic design as SBCs of the last 40-50 years and would be a good candidate for an "easy" swap.
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Wow those are all great suggestions and advise
I really appreciate it. My money situation right now isn't great so building or upgrading isn't an option although that was my plan from the beginning.
Right now I just don't want to miss this season.
I found 2 inexpensive running motors. Both right by my house
One is 350 out of a 70s Chevy truck same exact block number as mine. About 50k miles Did not smoke or knock for 200$ intake to pan.
The second is a 305 :/ that was recently rebuilt and installed and pulled out to upgrade at about 10k miles 100$ intake to pan
What do you all think??!! Really cheap I know
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His oil pan won't fit a 1 pc. rear main block (010), but a Vortec truck pan will work. The drive line at the crank is different on a 1 pc. rear main block, too.
Vortec headed sbc's run real good in a squirt boat, I'd also go roller cam at this point, too :thumbup:
Dan'l
Oh, yeah. Crack head moment there. He could convert it to a 2-piece seal crank. Might have one I could donate if a PTO is not viable. Bet I could make one if need be.
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Wow those are all great suggestions and advise
I really appreciate it. My money situation right now isn't great so building or upgrading isn't an option although that was my plan from the beginning.
Right now I just don't want to miss this season.
I found 2 inexpensive running motors. Both right by my house
One is 350 out of a 70s Chevy truck same exact block number as mine. About 50k miles Did not smoke or knock for 200$ intake to pan.
The second is a 305 :/ that was recently rebuilt and installed and pulled out to upgrade at about 10k miles 100$ intake to pan
What do you all think??!! Really cheap I know
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$200 for a running 350?!
Screw it, slap that baby in there and enjoy the summer. Then figure something else out when you can afford it. JMO
Double check your pan height and compare to the other just to make sure u have enough clearance.
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I should have enough clearance for the pan. I believe that it is the exact same pan too. Won't know for sure until I have both engines in the same room
Here's a picture of the 350
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Wow those are all great suggestions and advise
I really appreciate it. My money situation right now isn't great so building or upgrading isn't an option although that was my plan from the beginning.
Right now I just don't want to miss this season.
I found 2 inexpensive running motors. Both right by my house
One is 350 out of a 70s Chevy truck same exact block number as mine. About 50k miles Did not smoke or knock for 200$ intake to pan.
The second is a 305 :/ that was recently rebuilt and installed and pulled out to upgrade at about 10k miles 100$ intake to pan
What do you all think??!! Really cheap I know
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IMO I wouldn't touch the 305. The 350 would be the way to go. Even though the casting numbers are they same you still should pull the pan and verify that it's a 4-bolt block and that everything looks good.
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Wow those are all great suggestions and advise
I really appreciate it. My money situation right now isn't great so building or upgrading isn't an option although that was my plan from the beginning.
Right now I just don't want to miss this season.
I found 2 inexpensive running motors. Both right by my house
One is 350 out of a 70s Chevy truck same exact block number as mine. About 50k miles Did not smoke or knock for 200$ intake to pan.
The second is a 305 :/ that was recently rebuilt and installed and pulled out to upgrade at about 10k miles 100$ intake to pan
What do you all think??!! Really cheap I know
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IMO I wouldn't touch the 305. The 350 would be the way to go. Even though the casting numbers are they same you still should pull the pan and verify that it's a 4-bolt block and that everything looks good.
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I decided to with the 350
I pulled the pan and valve covers before purchasing the 350 and we'll although I don't really know what exactly to look for. It appears to be ok
No damage or disconnected parts no rust or sludge or oil build up. According to the seller it is in fact a 4 bolt main. I am hoping this can get me through the summer even of it's just cruising to the sand bars.
Then a full tear down of my old motor is next. That motor had some good power.
Hopefully the swap goes as planned
Doesn't seem to complicated but we'll see
I got the replacement engine on a stand so I can clean it up and hit it with a can of paint etc...
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I have NIB Comp XMarine cam if you are interested...
Flat tappet, never been run or installed.
Glad your going to give it a shot. :thumbup:
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I have a 650 edelbrock sitting in my garage. Needs to be freshened up a bit. We can tear it apart and give it a good cleaning. Should get you on the water and through the season. Bring it back when you don't have a use for it. No charge bud.
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Thank you
I have a almost new edlebrock intake and carb on my old setup I was going to use. So I should be good there
Just debating on if I should use my heads or not
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Thank you
I have a almost new edlebrock intake and carb on my old setup I was going to use. So I should be good there
Just debating on if I should use my heads or not
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What are the head #'s, new and old ones?
Dan'l
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I will get the numbers this weekend
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My old heads that are currently in my boat are 3998991
The heads on my "replacement engine" are 333882
Both blocks have the same casting number
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Very similar low performance heads, 76+ cc's, and will be real lazy with a stock/stock replacement piston.
Finding a set of smaller combustion chambered heads, 64 cc, 62 cc, or even 58 cc would bump up the comp. ratio by a point or better, and
give you some hp.
Dan'l
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Intakes
Edelbrock street master
Or performer?
My old engine has a street master
But the replacement engine came with a performer
I have a holly double pump carb
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Intakes
Edelbrock street master
Or performer?
My old engine has a street master
But the replacement engine came with a performer
I have a holly double pump carb
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For a dual plane, performer made the most hp on the top end when I was in school
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Intakes
Edelbrock street master
Or performer?
My old engine has a street master
But the replacement engine came with a performer
I have a holly double pump carb
The Street Master is an ancient design. I would definitely go with the Performer over the Street Master. Not that the Performer is all that new (30+ years), it is still being produced and the Street Master; I don’t ever remember those being the hot ticket. Maybe that is why it was a short-lived design.
I would run the Performer until you are in a position to upgrade to a modern intake design. BUT if you are never pushing that engine over 5500RPM, you will probably never see any gain.
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Thank you for the feedback
The motor is going in this weekend
If I'm lucky I'll be able to take her for a test run on Sunday or Monday perhaps Elsinore
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Painted the intake Manifold to match.
Let's see how it holds up.
Hopefully this weekend this thing can come back to life
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:thumbup:
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Here is are a few pics of the final install
Engine started right up on the first try
I have to figure out how to time it. I adjusted it by ear but I don't even know what to listen for. Just left it where it sounded smoothest and started easy.
This is where a motor head would be helpful.
I will get a video link of the engine running for your opinions
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Looks good brother. Not sure if autozone or o'reilly rents out a timing light but you can buy one dirt cheap.
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http://youtu.be/jgCa28YJpws (http://youtu.be/jgCa28YJpws)
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video added
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video added
sounds healthy
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