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Brad @ SCJB

  • Karma: +255/-0
454 Backfiring issue
« on: March 24, 2015, 07:29:05 pm »
Working on a friends boat.....ran great last year. He put a new cap/rotor/wires on it....and it is now backfiring out of the exhaust on both sides at idle. Put the old cap/wires back on and it's still happening. Triple checked firing order....swapped the coil......we are stumped. Only thing hes changed since last year is the cap, rotor and wires.
  • Boat #1: 1978 Liberty
  • Boat #2: 1982 Eliminator Sprint
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Riverlife_

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2015, 07:32:46 pm »
Maybe carb gummed up? From sitting in the off season?


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Brad @ SCJB

  • Karma: +255/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2015, 07:33:31 pm »
Just had the carbs rebuilt.
  • Boat #1: 1978 Liberty
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Brad @ SCJB

  • Karma: +255/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2015, 07:33:39 pm »
Forgot to mention that.
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Brad @ SCJB

  • Karma: +255/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2015, 07:35:20 pm »
The backfire is rhythmic going from one side to the other...which point to ignition in my book.
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eliminator18

  • Karma: +2/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2015, 07:39:44 pm »
Check plugs


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mobboss

  • Karma: +15/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2015, 07:42:48 pm »
When ever I get back firing like that . I pull the # 1 plug and and get it to blow. 
It sounds like 180 out.


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mobboss

  • Karma: +15/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2015, 07:47:24 pm »
Could also be a stuck valve. If all else fails pull the valves covers and make sure all the valves go up and down.


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Brad @ SCJB

  • Karma: +255/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2015, 08:04:57 pm »
Pulled the distributor... Checked the teeth on both sides. Set it at TDC....same thing.

I would say stuck valve as well but its back firing on both sides.
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mobboss

  • Karma: +15/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2015, 08:25:28 pm »
Well you did say it has been sitting for a year??? Stranger things have happened!


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mobboss

  • Karma: +15/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2015, 08:26:08 pm »
Could be 2 valves one on each head


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Riverlife_

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2015, 08:26:13 pm »
Re check plug wires / firing order, maybe some crossed plug wires


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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2015, 08:38:21 pm »
I would run the valves real quick like. If you have to, back them all off a turn and see if it still pops.

Try the damp towel trick too, take a couple of damp shop towels and start to block off the carbs creating a rich condition.

Do you have the right carburetor base gaskets? Are the floats set right ?
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

jyeager

  • Karma: +62/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2015, 09:28:36 pm »
Is it possible that you guys didn't put the wires on right???


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Brad @ SCJB

  • Karma: +255/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2015, 09:35:09 pm »
Checked the firing order a million times...put in a brand new battery....been on the phone with Glenn (gt jets) and hes even stumped.
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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2015, 09:42:10 pm »
Almost has to be a broken ground wire or something just wrong enough to allow it to run.

Have you tried removing the alternator belt?

I am grasping at everything I can on the way down.


GT
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

mobboss

  • Karma: +15/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2015, 10:10:15 pm »
What happens when you rev it up???


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mobboss

  • Karma: +15/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2015, 10:13:07 pm »
Carbon build up on the heads??? Try a little water down the carb when reving  it up. Like a tea spoon!


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JBASHAM

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2015, 10:13:09 pm »
Compression test and or leak down could verify or weed out a sticky valve.


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Brad @ SCJB

  • Karma: +255/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2015, 10:17:51 pm »
Compression test is 120 across the board
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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2015, 10:19:45 pm »
Carbon build up on the heads??? Try a little water down the carb when reving  it up. Like a tea spoon!


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LOL we used to pour like a liter down em....LOL  :thumbup:


Ensure the pick up wires are not backwards......

Green from the 6A to the black/purple and purple to the black/orange... Also too grounding the box is muy importante...


Just out loud for the listeners...

GT
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

Riverlife_

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2015, 10:22:51 pm »
Maybe pulled the plug wires away from the boot?! Bad connection? Cap on right? Lol I'm just fishing here


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mobboss

  • Karma: +15/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #22 on: March 24, 2015, 10:23:11 pm »
Are you guys running a 6al box???? If so try to disconnect it. I have herd of them going batty and doing shit ilike that.


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crewchief22

  • Karma: +66/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #23 on: March 24, 2015, 10:23:58 pm »
Check exhaust temps to see if you have a cooler cylinder.  Will at least help you identify what cylinders are the problems.
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The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?

crewchief22

  • Karma: +66/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #24 on: March 24, 2015, 10:25:46 pm »
Are you guys running a 6al box???? If so try to disconnect it. I have herd of them going batty and doing shit ilike that.


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Maybe change the rpm chip as a test.
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"Racing is life!  Anything that happens before or after, is just waiting"    Steve McQueen

The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?

che77y

  • Karma: +2/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #25 on: March 24, 2015, 10:30:42 pm »
Perhaps a few lazy lifters since she's been sittin?
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jimpen

  • Karma: +68/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #26 on: March 25, 2015, 06:23:11 am »
Brad does it clean up at higher rpm's?


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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #27 on: March 25, 2015, 06:31:11 am »
Brad does it clean up at higher rpm's?


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Nope.

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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

jimpen

  • Karma: +68/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #28 on: March 25, 2015, 06:39:41 am »

Nope.

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. Just having the carb rebuilt sounds kind of fishy.


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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #29 on: March 25, 2015, 07:01:01 am »
. Just having the carb rebuilt sounds kind of fishy.


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Sort of kept trying to go down that road. ...

I think so too.

I'm thinking stupid lean somewhere.

GT

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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

jimpen

  • Karma: +68/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #30 on: March 25, 2015, 07:10:42 am »

Sort of kept trying to go down that road. ...

I think so too.

I'm thinking stupid lean somewhere.

GT

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. That's what it sounds like I would have the carb rebuilder have another go at it or find a new one.


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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #31 on: March 25, 2015, 07:16:07 am »
. That's what it sounds like I would have the carb rebuilder have another go at it or find a new one.


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There are two on a tunnel ram. Twice the opportunity for a slight boo boo.

GT

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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

Brad @ SCJB

  • Karma: +255/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #32 on: March 25, 2015, 07:18:37 am »
The thing is that the backfire isn't a lean pop. It's a loud bang with 6" of flame shooting out. To me thats unburnt fuel getting into the header and burning.

The other thing is that its rhythmic. If I wasn't standing in front of it and checked the firing order maybe 5-6 times myself, I would bet it was a crossed plug wire, but its not.

Hal is bringing over a ready-to-run distributor today and they are gunna give it a go. If it still does it after that, I'm starting to wonder if the timing chain went bad.

Also, its a MSD 6a box, no rev chip in it.
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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #33 on: March 25, 2015, 07:35:05 am »
The thing is that the backfire isn't a lean pop. It's a loud bang with 6" of flame shooting out. To me thats unburnt fuel getting into the header and burning.

The other thing is that its rhythmic. If I wasn't standing in front of it and checked the firing order maybe 5-6 times myself, I would bet it was a crossed plug wire, but its not.

Hal is bringing over a ready-to-run distributor today and they are gunna give it a go. If it still does it after that, I'm starting to wonder if the timing chain went bad.

Also, its a MSD 6a box, no rev chip in it.

So the grounds were good and the pickup wires didn't get reversed?

I was sure that was a possibility.

It could be cross talking, but with two different caps, rotors and wires. It sort of all but eliminates it.

I would eliminate fuel stuff first. But trying the distributor cannot hurt.

GT

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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

rush1

  • Karma: +18/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #34 on: March 25, 2015, 09:26:07 am »
Is an hei distributor make sure the metal ground strap is in the cap, I've seen those get left out.
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quick olds

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #35 on: March 25, 2015, 12:01:15 pm »
Is it possibly  the swapped firing order? I forget what cylinders they swap but maybe thats it. Or  is it jumping spark. In the wires?
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Hoofy

  • Karma: +4/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #36 on: March 25, 2015, 12:08:13 pm »
The swap is 4 & 7
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Brad @ SCJB

  • Karma: +255/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #37 on: March 25, 2015, 12:09:10 pm »
Thanks for the help but as stated the firing order has been checked a dozen times.
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quick olds

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #38 on: March 25, 2015, 12:13:21 pm »
Ok wasnt sure if maybe it was forgotten that it was swapped
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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #39 on: March 25, 2015, 04:01:00 pm »
This Fukker running yet?  Lol

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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

jyeager

  • Karma: +62/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #40 on: March 25, 2015, 04:20:09 pm »
I got my money on some bent pushrods 👍


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81sprint

  • Karma: +18/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #41 on: March 25, 2015, 04:36:13 pm »
Not yet we will be working on it again tonite so fingers crossed
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Hoofy

  • Karma: +4/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #42 on: March 25, 2015, 06:16:32 pm »
Popping out exhaust, cyl is firing with exhaust valve partially open. Pull one plug wire at a time when the popping stops you will know what cylinders are causing the problem. Sounds like incorrect firing order.
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Brad @ SCJB

  • Karma: +255/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #43 on: March 25, 2015, 06:39:44 pm »
Popping out exhaust, cyl is firing with exhaust valve partially open. Pull one plug wire at a time when the popping stops you will know what cylinders are causing the problem. Sounds like incorrect firing order.

not trying to be rude, but we checked the firing order a million times as stated above.

If I had not even checked it myself several times, I would agree with you.
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tunnels

  • Karma: +13/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #44 on: March 25, 2015, 06:47:54 pm »
could there be moister in the distributor or a cross feed between wires?
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I identify as Hansom, Intelligent, and charismatic so I expect to be treated as such!

81sprint

  • Karma: +18/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #45 on: March 25, 2015, 07:50:42 pm »
Still doing it with a new distributer.  Checking float levels now
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Bigblockchevy1691

  • Karma: +6/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #46 on: March 25, 2015, 08:05:13 pm »

I got my money on some bent pushrods 👍


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I have to agree or a couple stuck valves.  Seen this a couple times.  Has there been valve covers pulled yet??


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Flusher

  • Karma: +84/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #47 on: March 25, 2015, 08:12:53 pm »
X2 on pulling the valve covers.

Could you put a timing light on each wire to verify each cylinder is consistently firing?
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Flusher

  • Karma: +84/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #48 on: March 25, 2015, 08:15:10 pm »
Did the plugs get checked?
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81sprint

  • Karma: +18/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #49 on: March 25, 2015, 08:41:02 pm »
I think we got it :)
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Brad @ SCJB

  • Karma: +255/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #50 on: March 25, 2015, 08:41:35 pm »
I think we got it :)

spill the fukkin beans! this is killing me!
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81sprint

  • Karma: +18/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #51 on: March 25, 2015, 08:46:21 pm »
 Dizzy a tooth off and adjusted floats.
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crewchief22

  • Karma: +66/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #52 on: March 25, 2015, 08:49:47 pm »
You heading to the lake for some evening testing?
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"Racing is life!  Anything that happens before or after, is just waiting"    Steve McQueen

The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?

Brad @ SCJB

  • Karma: +255/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #53 on: March 25, 2015, 08:50:05 pm »
Dizzy a tooth off and adjusted floats.

I call BS on the dizzy being a tooth off. That doesn't even make a difference - no such thing lol - and even if it was, the dizzy never came out between last October (when it ran great) until last night after it was already popping.
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81sprint

  • Karma: +18/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #54 on: March 25, 2015, 08:51:29 pm »
Hmm didn't you stab it in there last night there b-rad????
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Brad @ SCJB

  • Karma: +255/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #55 on: March 25, 2015, 08:53:53 pm »
Hmm didn't you stab it in there last night there b-rad????

There is no such thing about the dizzy being a tooth off. It just changes the position of #1. Even then, when I checked the timing, after I stabbed it, it was dead on. Your theory is invalid.  :screwy: ;)

and like I said, it was popping before then. and that 'stab' was the same one that it was running on back in October.
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81sprint

  • Karma: +18/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #56 on: March 25, 2015, 08:56:30 pm »
Lol. We're not sure could have been the floats but whatever it was it's better now
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jimpen

  • Karma: +68/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #57 on: March 25, 2015, 09:00:17 pm »

Hmm didn't you stab it in there last night there b-rad????
. Good to see you all picking on the Ford guy. 


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  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #58 on: March 25, 2015, 09:05:43 pm »
Hmm didn't you stab it in there last night there b-rad????

Anyone else see it?  Lol
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #59 on: March 25, 2015, 09:06:27 pm »
Hmmmm.
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

Flusher

  • Karma: +84/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #60 on: March 25, 2015, 09:10:57 pm »
. Good to see you all picking on the Ford guy. 

He must have as stabbed it in the front of the engine.

Just kidding brotherman.

Peace
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Flusher

  • Karma: +84/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #61 on: March 25, 2015, 09:15:51 pm »
#1 is on the other side of the engine?
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"I want to roll with my brother Joe" - Joe Bateman - January 29, 1950 ~ November 27, 2013

Flusher

  • Karma: +84/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #62 on: March 25, 2015, 09:16:54 pm »
Okay, I'll shut up now
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"I want to roll with my brother Joe" - Joe Bateman - January 29, 1950 ~ November 27, 2013

TrollerDave

  • Karma: +32/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #63 on: March 25, 2015, 09:21:02 pm »
Okay, I'll shut up now

No, please, go on.

 ;D
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FordLover

  • Karma: +72/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #64 on: March 26, 2015, 06:12:12 am »
Hmm didn't you stab it in there last night there b-rad????

That right there looks like someones new quote to add to their profile! lol
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  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: 454 Backfiring issue
« Reply #65 on: March 26, 2015, 06:14:06 am »
That right there looks like someones new quote to add to their profile! lol

I knew I was not the only one lmao.

GT

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  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

 


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