SoCal Jet Boats
Tech Talk => Engine Mechanical / Electrical => Topic started by: honda1 on February 01, 2010, 05:03:27 PM
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I have a olds 455 with block class Fa and F5 puts it 72-76 Fa is marine how can I make a sound 450Hp with out all the problems ???
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Buy a chevrolet. Thats the only way not to have olds problems. Matt
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...X 2.......Chevy or Ford :)
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there is a write up in a hot boat mag...on everything ya got to do.ill look for it.
olds have oil problems,all the oil goes up but dont come down.fix= drill heads for drain lines going back to oil pan, oil restricters in the cam and crank...let me find that mag. ;D
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I hear you guys and agree and untill I can aford to do a BBC this is what it is for now want it to run this summer and collect BBC parts as I go along :-[
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there is a write up in a hot boat mag...on everything ya got to do.ill look for it.
olds have oil problems,all the oil goes up but dont come down.fix= drill heads for drain lines going back to oil pan, oil restricters in the cam and crank...let me find that mag. ;D
looking at my motor the return holes in the heads are almost horizonal can see why oil dosnt get back to the pan to quick
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Nothing wrong with the Olds! It was THE definative jet boat engine back in the day, and many knowledgeable people on here can support that.
450 HP? should be a cake walk, really.
I've posted this no less than 5 or 6 times, but at the risk of beating a dead horse, yes, drainback is the main issue. There are restrictor kits to the top end, special pushrods, etc, etc. (My experience is based on Pontiacs with the same condition.)
The "problem" is the oil system is too good. Pumps too much oil to the top end (Hence the "restrictor kits or fixes")
Not really necessary, IMO. removing all casting flash and adding a large capacity pan/pickup WITH a windage tray should solve most issues. Yeah, we used to smooth the inside of the heads and lifter valley, but that was extreme. the problem is more cavitation of the overly efficient oil pump through frothing of the oil on drainback. The smoothing and streamlining stopped that.
Regardless, in the 5000 rpm range, you'll be fine. It's when you push the issue with hotter cams and make your max power to 5500 or better these things show their ugly head.
450 @ 5000? Easily attainable. Call Tom at JBP or Dave at A&D to find out how.
Ray
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For what it will take money wise to get the Olds to make a reliable 450HP, you would be able to build a longblock 454 that will do the same.
IMHO, if you are going to build a BBF or BBC anyway, I would start there, otherwise you will be putting in twice the effort for half of the result..
There is nothing wrong with a properly prepped Olds, the will run long, hard and forever...But you have to start from the beginning on one, meaning not in the middle......
Start with all the parts spread out on a table and hand inspect and critique each area of concern...
Have I ever mentioned I hate doing shit twice? :banghead:
GT
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For what it will take money wise to get the Olds to make a reliable 450HP, you would be able to build a longblock 454 that will do the same.
IMHO, if you are going to build a BBF or BBC anyway, I would start there, otherwise you will be putting in twice the effort for half of the result..
There is nothing wrong with a properly prepped Olds, the will run long, hard and forever...But you have to start from the beginning on one, meaning not in the middle......
Start with all the parts spread out on a table and hand inspect and critique each area of concern...
Have I ever mentioned I hate doing shit twice? :banghead:
GT
Nothing wrong with the Olds! It was THE definative jet boat engine back in the day, and many knowledgeable people on here can support that.
450 HP? should be a cake walk, really.
I've posted this no less than 5 or 6 times, but at the risk of beating a dead horse, yes, drainback is the main issue. There are restrictor kits to the top end, special pushrods, etc, etc. (My experience is based on Pontiacs with the same condition.)
The "problem" is the oil system is too good. Pumps too much oil to the top end (Hence the "restrictor kits or fixes")
Not really necessary, IMO. removing all casting flash and adding a large capacity pan/pickup WITH a windage tray should solve most issues. Yeah, we used to smooth the inside of the heads and lifter valley, but that was extreme. the problem is more cavitation of the overly efficient oil pump through frothing of the oil on drainback. The smoothing and streamlining stopped that.
Regardless, in the 5000 rpm range, you'll be fine. It's when you push the issue with hotter cams and make your max power to 5500 or better these things show their ugly head.
450 @ 5000? Easily attainable. Call Tom at JBP or Dave at A&D to find out how.
Ray
the motor i have is relitively fresh just want to change a few things :P
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the motor i have is relitively fresh just want to change a few things :P
Marcsrolling will kick me in the junk for this but............
Valvetrain alone is going to cost you a buttload of dough....
The original Packajet Berkley 455 motors made just under 390 HP, so 450 is not a stretch...The problem will be trying to make it at under 5,000 RPM.
I'm thinking Torker or Torker 2 intake, a Holley 850 DP and a 1" carb spacer, I would order a custom cam, many have used Clay Smith Cams with good results (not my area on the Olds), pick up the restrictors and whatnot to slow the blood flow, The largest oil pan you can fit, the best valve cover breathers money can buy and headers....You will be close...Very close...
My dads friend has one of the hardest running 455's I have ever witnessed, it will run 5K until you run it out of fuel and hauls ass...
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OK hear ya GT ive got all but carb resticters and cam kit comp has a kit with roller rockers push rods lifters chain and gears and cam has lift and duration and correct overlap for OTH kits about 450.00any body want to buy my inclosed trailer ;D
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Ok...here ya go...IMHO...
for a marine "Olds"...which I believe are great engines I suggest:
1. Restrictors for mains/proper oil clearances...thru out.
2.Stock oil pump but Blueprinted./Huge marine pan
3.Isky or Clay cams.
I prefer .0007/10 per 1.000 Journ. dia. oil clear. on the Olds for rods and mains./ cam oil clear..0030/10
Just my opinion. 8)
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Thanks Dave wisdom from the doc is of value :thumbup:
Ok...here ya go...IMHO...
for a marine "Olds"...which I believe are great engines I suggest:
1. Restrictors for mains/proper oil clearances...thru out.
2.Stock oil pump but Blueprinted./Huge marine pan
3.Isky or Clay cams.
I prefer .0007/10 per 1.000 Journ. dia. oil clear. on the Olds for rods and mains./ cam oil clear..0030/10
Just my opinion. 8)
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I had mondello built 455 olds in the old boat. And ran it hard for 6 years. But the season before last I had my bassett t valve stick open and at idle she sucked water and mushroomed some valves. but where im going with that is everyone talks so much shit on the olds motors and I could not have been more happy with mine, shit 6 seasons of runnin really hard on her and the only reason she's not around now is the damn t valve. And the new boat has an olds small block, ran the shit out of it all last season without fail (minus some ignition issues) and went out on saturday charged the batterey and she fired right up and idled. So I say build that olds how dave says and have fun with her. sorry about my little rant im just kinda tired of the "put a chevy in it" responce all the time. And if not build the olds go ford lol
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Yaaa....I have plenty of experience with Olds.....even the diesel ones..never had any trouble.
Build them correctly and they last forever....maintenance free. :)
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When you figure in the cost of BBC mounts, bell hing, alternator, dizzy, intake, logs, etc. that just about pays for most of the shortblock if you already have the foundations. Something to think about . . .
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I have the foundation but iam going to check those clearances as Dave said Dave on PB a guy had drilled the back of the heads at the oil return and put fittings in to drain oil back to pan said it worked great seems like cool idea ???
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That works too. Just like putting Indy heads on a hot Mopar O0
Mmmm . . . Indy heads make me pitch a tent. S'cuse me I gotta go somewhere
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A guy on PB drilled back of heads at the drain back holes and ran lines back to pan drain hole and said it works great seems pretty cool idea ???
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contact Lynn at Mondello performance products in Paso Robles. 805 237 8808
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Thanks mopartec :thumbup:
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Tom ill call you about that oil pump talk soon :thumbup:
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your very welcome there Honda1.
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contact Lynn at Mondello performance products in Paso Robles. 805 237 8808
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: bought many a parts from them including a motor :thumbup: