SoCal Jet Boats

Tech Talk => Engine Mechanical / Electrical => Topic started by: spectralen on August 12, 2018, 05:44:42 PM

Title: 460 ticking clacking noise, maybe in front?
Post by: spectralen on August 12, 2018, 05:44:42 PM

   I have a Spectra 20 460 with RPM manifold, edelbrock 750, logs, DUI HEI. Went out the other day, fired it up at the ramp, didn't notice anything wrong. Putted out, put it on plane, ran that way for about 1/4 mile, hammered it for a few seconds, brought it down to idle for a no wake zone and a faint ticking can be heard. Threw out the anchor and started searching. Checked oil level and it was just above add line. Put in a quart with no change in the noise. Pulled alt belt/ still there, pulled valve covers, all rockers are oiled and snug and lifters are tight, not able to push them in. Drove the boat back to the ramp, on plane, for about a mile and it seemed louder. Next day did some more troubleshooting on the trailer. Removed bell housing plate and could hear the noise but not coming from this area. Pulled the spark plugs with no sign of damage there. It sounds like it's coming from behind the timing cover, maybe?
 Has anyone had something like the cam, gears or distributor make noises or maybe it's a bearing? Oil psi looks good though. 

Title: Re: 460 ticking clacking noise, maybe in front?
Post by: MillerKiller510 on August 12, 2018, 05:56:49 PM

Take your oil filter off and cut it in half if you see any metal flakes in there you found your problem

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Title: Re: 460 ticking clacking noise, maybe in front?
Post by: spectralen on August 12, 2018, 06:01:17 PM

  So, if there is no shavings you think the bearings are good?

Title: Re: 460 ticking clacking noise, maybe in front?
Post by: MillerKiller510 on August 12, 2018, 06:57:53 PM

More then I likely when a bearing starts to go the little pieces get stuck in the filter

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Title: Re: 460 ticking clacking noise, maybe in front?
Post by: spectralen on August 12, 2018, 07:03:31 PM

 I am going to pull the distributor to inspect the gear and open the oil filter.

Title: Re: 460 ticking clacking noise, maybe in front?
Post by: spectralen on August 13, 2018, 06:42:08 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qzkf-SCyiU4
 Here is a short clip that might give a hint to what is going on, or not.

Title: Re: 460 ticking clacking noise, maybe in front?
Post by: spectralen on August 13, 2018, 03:10:48 PM

  Pulled the oil filter apart and can see some small glitter in the bottom of the sheet metal cover that the oil filter sits in. Nothing noticeable in the filter element. Does the small amount of material in the bottom consistent with a spun bearing?

Title: Re: 460 ticking clacking noise, maybe in front?
Post by: spectralen on August 19, 2018, 11:19:39 AM

Has anyone had or heard of a blown head gasket that is leaving an exhaust leak only? My ticking noise sounds an awful lot like an exhaust leak and the logs are tight.

Title: Re: 460 ticking clacking noise, maybe in front?
Post by: Tahiti1971 on August 19, 2018, 12:30:02 PM

Quote from: spectralen on August 19, 2018, 11:19:39 AM

Has anyone had or heard of a blown head gasket that is leaving an exhaust leak only? My ticking noise sounds an awful lot like an exhaust leak and the logs are tight.

It sure sounds like an exhaust leak from the video. But sounds on a video can be misleading. Think about this, if the head gasket was blown, you’d loose compression in one or two side by side cylinders. Easy to check  in aid of ruling that out.  I’ve seen all kind of weird things cause motor noises.


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Title: Re: 460 ticking clacking noise, maybe in front?
Post by: LakesOnly on August 20, 2018, 04:42:53 PM

It's hard for me to see in the video, do you have a mechanical fuel pump? Check that if you do. Also, possibly just an exhaust leak.

Title: Re: 460 ticking clacking noise, maybe in front?
Post by: bobjthomson on August 20, 2018, 07:01:24 PM

Exhaust leak bro , sounds like a tractor , pull the manifolds off carefully and see if u broke the gaskets . Failing that I can smoke test them or get them mag tested


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Title: Re: 460 ticking clacking noise, maybe in front?
Post by: bobjthomson on August 20, 2018, 07:02:03 PM

U need to ditch the ford lol jk


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Title: Re: 460 ticking clacking noise, maybe in front?
Post by: spectralen on August 20, 2018, 07:05:06 PM

I've got one of those mechanic stethoscopes and placed it on the fuel pump when running and didn't notice anything but I do have a spare to try. I'm going to try pulling plug wires one at a time and see if I can narrow it down to a certain cylinder. It might be an exhaust leak on the bottom side of the logs. No gaskets, just silicone.

Title: Re: 460 ticking clacking noise, maybe in front?
Post by: Tahiti1971 on August 20, 2018, 07:17:56 PM

Quote from: spectralen on August 20, 2018, 07:05:06 PM

I've got one of those mechanic stethoscopes and placed it on the fuel pump when running and didn't notice anything but I do have a spare to try. I'm going to try pulling plug wires one at a time and see if I can narrow it down to a certain cylinder. It might be an exhaust leak on the bottom side of the logs. No gaskets, just silicone.

Stop! Replace the exhaust gaskets first!!
I use the carbon fiber ones and they have never let me down. Tried the expensive aluminum, no luck. Leaked within an hour.


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Title: Re: 460 ticking clacking noise, maybe in front?
Post by: spectralen on August 20, 2018, 07:26:01 PM

I've read a lot of jet boaters using only silicone with out problems. I have never run gaskets, only a thin coat of silicone. At this point I have nothing to lose. I will put checking the exhaust on the top of the list.

Title: Re: 460 ticking clacking noise, maybe in front?
Post by: bobjthomson on August 21, 2018, 05:08:28 AM

Never use silicone on exhaust manifold, they are never flush unless u machine the heads and flange, that’s why we use gaskets


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Title: Re: 460 ticking clacking noise, maybe in front?
Post by: bobjthomson on August 21, 2018, 05:17:07 AM

When the headers heat up they change shape and can cause leaks


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Title: Re: 460 ticking clacking noise, maybe in front?
Post by: FordLover on August 21, 2018, 09:22:37 AM

Quote from: bobjthomson on August 20, 2018, 07:02:03 PM

U need to ditch the ford lol jk


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He will ditch his ford when you ditch your boyfriend. Neither is probably happening. Lol

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Title: Re: 460 ticking clacking noise, maybe in front?
Post by: bobjthomson on August 21, 2018, 05:55:52 PM

Quote from: FordLover on August 21, 2018, 09:22:37 AM

He will ditch his ford when you ditch your boyfriend. Neither is probably happening. Lol

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What u don’t want me anymore lover boy


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Title: Re: 460 ticking clacking noise, maybe in front?
Post by: Tahiti1971 on August 29, 2018, 10:33:18 AM

Quote from: bobjthomson on August 21, 2018, 05:55:52 PM

What u don’t want me anymore lover boy


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Spectralen, did you get this figured out?


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Title: Re: 460 ticking clacking noise, maybe in front?
Post by: spectralen on August 29, 2018, 12:37:46 PM

 It's not the exhaust. I'm just going to pull the engine. Check everything out that way.

Title: Re: 460 ticking clacking noise, maybe in front?
Post by: spectralen on September 06, 2018, 06:39:46 PM

Pulled the motor and the rod bearings look like new. None are spun. The heads are lifted and pictured over their cylinders in the pics. The rear drivers cylinder, #8, always had a black sooty plug. You can see the exhaust valves to the rear of the motor look to be running richer than the rest. Not sure why. I'm wondering if the head gasket was blown in a way to give an exhaust leak internally? Can I bench test the lifters?

Title: Re: 460 ticking clacking noise, maybe in front?
Post by: spectralen on September 09, 2018, 01:58:53 PM

  Push rods look straight, rocker assemblies all look perfect, The lifters can all be pressed in little with a push rod except for the last one on the drivers side, intake valve for #8. That's the same cylinder that has a black plug all the time. I took it apart and removed some oil. Now it moves in and out like the rest. Can a pumped up lifter make a ticking noise? I don't see any contact with valve to piston.
  I'm really wondering if my head gasket was leaking between #7 and #8. These are some pics.
  Oil pump seems smooth also.

Title: Re: 460 ticking clacking noise, maybe in front?
Post by: angermgmt on September 10, 2018, 06:42:56 AM

When’s the last time you adjusted your valves ?


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Title: Re: 460 ticking clacking noise, maybe in front?
Post by: 427 wilder on September 10, 2018, 10:16:28 AM

Since the heads are off. Set the heads up so you can pour solvent into the ports. Check for leaking valves int and exhaust. With the video it is hard to differentiate noise. I agree it does sound like a exhaust leak. Also, clean the mating surface for the exhaust on the heads and logs. Then take a straight edge to the surfaces and see what you have.

Title: Re: 460 ticking clacking noise, maybe in front?
Post by: MillerKiller510 on September 10, 2018, 04:30:13 PM

I would check the cam as well as the heads looks like a bad cam to me but that's just from a pic

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Title: Re: 460 ticking clacking noise, maybe in front?
Post by: spectralen on September 10, 2018, 07:49:59 PM

Quote from: angermgmt on September 10, 2018, 06:42:56 AM

When’s the last time you adjusted your valves ?



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The valves are non adjustable and the rockers didn't appear to have any play.

I will check the cam, main bearings, and see if the valves hold kerosene. These head gaskets delaminated when I took the heads off. There's material stuck to both surfaces and appears to be made of an aluminum type corrugated metal. Has anyone used this type of gasket or had dealings with them? 

Title: Re: 460 ticking clacking noise, maybe in front?
Post by: SuperJet on September 10, 2018, 11:47:44 PM

Quote from: spectralen on September 10, 2018, 07:49:59 PM

The valves are non adjustable and the rockers didn't appear to have any play.

I will check the cam, main bearings, and see if the valves hold kerosene. These head gaskets delaminated when I took the heads off. There's material stuck to both surfaces and appears to be made of an aluminum type corrugated metal. Has anyone used this type of gasket or had dealings with them?

That’s a standard factory style head gasket. Delam on removal is normal.


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Title: Re: 460 ticking clacking noise, maybe in front?
Post by: angermgmt on September 11, 2018, 11:17:18 AM

I doubt it’s a main bearing issue. Summit sells valve spring tension tools. Might be worth the investment of your lifters all look good


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Title: Re: 460 ticking clacking noise, maybe in front?
Post by: angermgmt on September 11, 2018, 11:18:30 AM

You could have had a rocker arm out of torque.


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Title: Re: 460 ticking clacking noise, maybe in front?
Post by: 461 bahner on September 11, 2018, 07:25:13 PM

It’s a very long shot but free hand your alternator. In the video it was louder near their.


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Title: Re: 460 ticking clacking noise, maybe in front?
Post by: spectralen on September 11, 2018, 09:27:32 PM

I disconnected the belt but still had the noise.

Title: Re: 460 ticking clacking noise, maybe in front?
Post by: spectralen on September 12, 2018, 07:27:52 PM

  I filled the combustion chambers with mineral spirits to see if the valves were seating and found 3 exhaust valves on the passenger side head had a very slow leak. Nothing drastic and I believe I can clean them with lapping compound and get them to seal. Still not finding anything that would make a ticking sound.

Title: Re: 460 ticking clacking noise, maybe in front?
Post by: 427 wilder on September 13, 2018, 05:03:32 AM

I know you said it’s not a exhaust leak. Video wise it sure sounds like it. If it were me, I would straight edge the logs and exhaust flange. To see just how far out they are or if they are. I have never seen this happen to the 429/460 but on the Cleveland and midland heads they crack at the sharp radius by the head bolts. The 460 head does not have the same machine edge but I would look there as well.  Where the port protrudes out from the head.


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Title: Re: 460 ticking clacking noise, maybe in front?
Post by: spectralen on September 13, 2018, 06:42:45 AM

 I'm not saying it's not an exhaust leak, but when looking at the manifolds and heads, I don't see any carbon areas that make a clear exit out of the contact surfaces. When I pulled the heads the gaskets tore apart, preventing me from seeing any type of leak that could be coming from them.
  I'm probably going to just clean everything up and put new gaskets on and run it.

Title: Re: 460 ticking clacking noise, maybe in front?
Post by: ghixon on September 13, 2018, 06:44:08 AM

Quote from: spectralen on August 12, 2018, 05:44:42 PM

   I have a Spectra 20 460 with RPM manifold, edelbrock 750, logs, DUI HEI. Went out the other day, fired it up at the ramp, didn't notice anything wrong. Putted out, put it on plane, ran that way for about 1/4 mile, hammered it for a few seconds, brought it down to idle for a no wake zone and a faint ticking can be heard. Threw out the anchor and started searching. Checked oil level and it was just above add line. Put in a quart with no change in the noise. Pulled alt belt/ still there, pulled valve covers, all rockers are oiled and snug and lifters are tight, not able to push them in. Drove the boat back to the ramp, on plane, for about a mile and it seemed louder. Next day did some more troubleshooting on the trailer. Removed bell housing plate and could hear the noise but not coming from this area. Pulled the spark plugs with no sign of damage there. It sounds like it's coming from behind the timing cover, maybe?
 Has anyone had something like the cam, gears or distributor make noises or maybe it's a bearing? Oil psi looks good though.

I've got a early 70s 16ft tahiti with a 455 , I put it to bed for the winter and the next spring fired it up and it was making a awful rattling and clanking noise in the front on the motor , after a few days of eliminating thing it came down to fly wheel bolts were loose.
It has basset headers and I couldn't hear the noise in the back, it made it sound like the noise was in the front.
Hope this help any one with those phantom noise

Redtahiti

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Title: Re: 460 ticking clacking noise, maybe in front?
Post by: spectralen on September 13, 2018, 06:50:34 AM

 Thanks for the input. The flywheel bolts were tight and I did remove the little inspection cover on the bell housing while running and didn't notice anything coming from there. Flywheels not cracked.
 Thanks

Title: Re: 460 ticking clacking noise, maybe in front?
Post by: spectralen on September 24, 2018, 02:09:01 PM

  Pulled apart the valve train on one head and found a metal band around a valve seal had come off. I wonder if this could be making the clicking?

Title: Re: 460 ticking clacking noise, maybe in front?
Post by: spectralen on September 24, 2018, 02:14:56 PM

 Pics

Title: Re: 460 ticking clacking noise, maybe in front?
Post by: gsmitty on September 25, 2018, 12:37:05 PM

Had a similar problem but didn’t sound like the Video but that is hard to go by. Had a 460 badly build and found noise up high and was wrong push rod size and they where hitting the guides! 🤷🏻‍♂️


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Title: Re: 460 ticking clacking noise, maybe in front?
Post by: spectralen on April 21, 2019, 07:34:56 PM

 I'm putting this thing back together and will start it soon. I found that one of these small head plugs had rotted through and was told by the local machine shop that this will cause an exhaust leak sound. I'll know for sure when I start this thing in a few days here.

Title: Re: 460 ticking clacking noise, maybe in front?
Post by: angermgmt on April 22, 2019, 06:35:38 AM

How was the wear pattern on the bottom of your lifters?


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Title: Re: 460 ticking clacking noise, maybe in front?
Post by: spectralen on May 13, 2019, 02:17:59 PM

 I have it running and no ticking noise. It must have been the rusted out end plug on the cylinder head

Title: Re: 460 ticking clacking noise, maybe in front?
Post by: angermgmt on May 13, 2019, 05:44:57 PM

Sounds strange to me.


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