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TIMINATOR

  • Karma: +5/-0
Re: 990's vs 781
« Reply #25 on: June 02, 2015, 09:40:22 PM »
We don't set up our pumps that loose.  TIMINATOR
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TUFENUF MARINE PERFORMANCE  623-877-8553
COMPLETE ENGINE MACHINESHOP & PERFORMANCE
JET PUMPS!!!
PM or call me with JETTECH questions for HOTBOAT MAGAZINE!!  see them in the magazine!! OOPS! not anymore! HOTBOAT is boobs up! MODESTY IS A CRUTCH FOR THE INCOMPETENT!

GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: 990's vs 781
« Reply #26 on: June 02, 2015, 09:57:40 PM »
We don't set up our pumps that loose.  TIMINATOR

Huh?
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

TIMINATOR

  • Karma: +5/-0
Re: 990's vs 781
« Reply #27 on: June 02, 2015, 10:20:57 PM »
didn't think that took any explanation, still don't
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TUFENUF MARINE PERFORMANCE  623-877-8553
COMPLETE ENGINE MACHINESHOP & PERFORMANCE
JET PUMPS!!!
PM or call me with JETTECH questions for HOTBOAT MAGAZINE!!  see them in the magazine!! OOPS! not anymore! HOTBOAT is boobs up! MODESTY IS A CRUTCH FOR THE INCOMPETENT!

GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: 990's vs 781
« Reply #28 on: June 02, 2015, 10:26:37 PM »
didn't think that took any explanation, still don't

I don't see anything where a "loose" pump was indicated. You did however make me go back and read though. 

Not being wise, just not understanding the comment. Sorry.

GT
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

TIMINATOR

  • Karma: +5/-0
Re: 990's vs 781
« Reply #29 on: June 03, 2015, 07:28:12 AM »
GT, we all know the factors that affect pump RPM at any HP level, and know that any boat speed probably can be attained by a wide range of RPMs. Our PREFERENCE (not shouting, just emphasis) is to build torque motors and keep the pump RPM down. Since we do all of our engine and pump machining and assembly in house, it is easier for us to match the engine to the pump and vice versa, than most shops. I.E. Motor guy lies about the HP and pump guy has to cut or change the impeller or loosen the pump to get the engine in its power band.
One of my best friends is a retired pump/ flow engineer and we spend lots of time and research on this subject. As a matter of fact he is the Comp jet guy that runs the small block, I'm sure you know who he is. His engine would be more reliable, except his philosophy is to use the lightest, smallest, cheapest, (yes cheapest) part that will JUST do the job, like Pro-Comp rods, no chit!. The last race in point, one of his injectors failed (totally) early in the second heat, and he finished the last heats all on 7 cylinders. Too cheap to carry a spare, really. I believe he ran second and third in those later races. Usually he just splits the block or cylinders. Again the "anybody can build it strong enough, it takes an Engineer to make it JUST strong enough" philosophy.
Back to us. He keeps harping on the fact that pump efficiency relates to output pressure VS input pressure, and even before his input we made our pumps "tighter"(more efficient) than most, and that complements my preference for torque engines. Given the choice, I will always make my power at a lower RPM than most. We prefer the results: less wear, less noise, less fuel consumption at cruise, and less expensive components, because its not the HP that hurts parts, its the RPMs. All of our 70 and 80+ MPH boats run single carb, dual plane intake manifolds at under or around 5000 RPM. Its how we roll, been doing it for 40 years and have it down pretty well. We use single plane intakes to over 100 MPH, and haven't put a tunnel ram on anything in about 10-12 years, except for two guys that had them and liked the "look". They pay for that in fuel and know it. As an example I ran a 21 Daytona for 4 years with thru transom exhaust, swim platforms, pump in STOCK location, American Turbine aluminum "A" impeller (untouched, out of the box), single plane Merlin intake, single stock 1050, AFR 320 heads, Comp roller cam, 10.6 compression, REGULAR pump gas and no additives. 102 MPH RADAR and GPS at 5700 RPM.  Dave (Aggressor) sent me a high helix "A" stainless impeller for evaluation when he first started making them and with no changes it dropped the RPM to 5500 and it only ran 96/97 MPH. Since it was cammed for 6200 RPM, I did what anybody would do, I stuck a bottle on it and it ran 6100 RPM in the 100teens. Still on regular. A ton of folks in Phoenix rode in it, it was only a lake boat, with a bimini top. I used to ride around with the top up and smoke a lot of boats that way. Me, a smartass, but prepared and anal(short for analyze)   TIMINATOR 
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TUFENUF MARINE PERFORMANCE  623-877-8553
COMPLETE ENGINE MACHINESHOP & PERFORMANCE
JET PUMPS!!!
PM or call me with JETTECH questions for HOTBOAT MAGAZINE!!  see them in the magazine!! OOPS! not anymore! HOTBOAT is boobs up! MODESTY IS A CRUTCH FOR THE INCOMPETENT!

TIMINATOR

  • Karma: +5/-0
Re: 990's vs 781
« Reply #30 on: June 03, 2015, 07:38:49 AM »
OK clarification time, pump not loose by normal standards, but ours. MY bad.
If anybody is interested I'll post pics and info on sparkplug "reading", or I'll look up the year and month of the HOTBOAT article on plugs and reading them and then all can find it online, I've got the article/issue around here someplace, (I wrote it).  TIMINATOR
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TUFENUF MARINE PERFORMANCE  623-877-8553
COMPLETE ENGINE MACHINESHOP & PERFORMANCE
JET PUMPS!!!
PM or call me with JETTECH questions for HOTBOAT MAGAZINE!!  see them in the magazine!! OOPS! not anymore! HOTBOAT is boobs up! MODESTY IS A CRUTCH FOR THE INCOMPETENT!

metalmulisha5006

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: 990's vs 781
« Reply #31 on: June 03, 2015, 08:17:23 AM »
I will have to agree with the fuel comsuption is kinda crazy with the tunnel ram..as far as reading plugs I've tuned nos cars before..I've built lots of  engines  but I was trying on this set up pump gas std bore 454 with 550-575 hp with iron heads...I meen I have a 14.1 496  it's well over 700hp  I'm not trying to break any records jus wanna get the boat in the 70+ range and I'll be happy  I've only had it out one time with the 454...but I do thank you guys for all the advise...

Gt so the  keel of my boat is round...sooo wat does that mean to me?
  • Boat #1: 77 python bubbledeck
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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: 990's vs 781
« Reply #32 on: June 03, 2015, 08:34:57 AM »
I will have to agree with the fuel comsuption is kinda crazy with the tunnel ram..as far as reading plugs I've tuned nos cars before..I've built lots of  engines  but I was trying on this set up pump gas std bore 454 with 550-575 hp with iron heads.

Gt so the  keel of my boat is round...sooo wat does that mean to me?


I figured about 550 hp and the rounded keel means drive it like it's stolen.

GT

Sent from my SCH-I545 using SoCal Jet Boats mobile app
« Last Edit: June 03, 2015, 08:50:17 AM by GT Jets »
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
  • Like
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: 990's vs 781
« Reply #33 on: June 03, 2015, 08:41:44 AM »
GT, we all know the factors that affect pump RPM at any HP level, and know that any boat speed probably can be attained by a wide range of RPMs. Our PREFERENCE (not shouting, just emphasis) is to build torque motors and keep the pump RPM down. Since we do all of our engine and pump machining and assembly in house, it is easier for us to match the engine to the pump and vice versa, than most shops. I.E. Motor guy lies about the HP and pump guy has to cut or change the impeller or loosen the pump to get the engine in its power band.
One of my best friends is a retired pump/ flow engineer and we spend lots of time and research on this subject. As a matter of fact he is the Comp jet guy that runs the small block, I'm sure you know who he is. His engine would be more reliable, except his philosophy is to use the lightest, smallest, cheapest, (yes cheapest) part that will JUST do the job, like Pro-Comp rods, no chit!. The last race in point, one of his injectors failed (totally) early in the second heat, and he finished the last heats all on 7 cylinders. Too cheap to carry a spare, really. I believe he ran second and third in those later races. Usually he just splits the block or cylinders. Again the "anybody can build it strong enough, it takes an Engineer to make it JUST strong enough" philosophy.
Back to us. He keeps harping on the fact that pump efficiency relates to output pressure VS input pressure, and even before his input we made our pumps "tighter"(more efficient) than most, and that complements my preference for torque engines. Given the choice, I will always make my power at a lower RPM than most. We prefer the results: less wear, less noise, less fuel consumption at cruise, and less expensive components, because its not the HP that hurts parts, its the RPMs. All of our 70 and 80+ MPH boats run single carb, dual plane intake manifolds at under or around 5000 RPM. Its how we roll, been doing it for 40 years and have it down pretty well. We use single plane intakes to over 100 MPH, and haven't put a tunnel ram on anything in about 10-12 years, except for two guys that had them and liked the "look". They pay for that in fuel and know it. As an example I ran a 21 Daytona for 4 years with thru transom exhaust, swim platforms, pump in STOCK location, American Turbine aluminum "A" impeller (untouched, out of the box), single plane Merlin intake, single stock 1050, AFR 320 heads, Comp roller cam, 10.6 compression, REGULAR pump gas and no additives. 102 MPH RADAR and GPS at 5700 RPM.  Dave (Aggressor) sent me a high helix "A" stainless impeller for evaluation when he first started making them and with no changes it dropped the RPM to 5500 and it only ran 96/97 MPH. Since it was cammed for 6200 RPM, I did what anybody would do, I stuck a bottle on it and it ran 6100 RPM in the 100teens. Still on regular. A ton of folks in Phoenix rode in it, it was only a lake boat, with a bimini top. I used to ride around with the top up and smoke a lot of boats that way. Me, a smartass, but prepared and anal(short for analyze)   TIMINATOR

I wasn't trying to pee on your campfire. Just wanted to know what you meant by loose pump.

And your torque/lower rpm analogy is right up my road.

I feel anytime you need to pull now than about 6k is tone to rethink the whole deal.

Said it 100 times if I've said it one.

Thank you for taking the time.

GT

Sent from my SCH-I545 using SoCal Jet Boats mobile app

  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
  • Like
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    Love
    HaHa
    Angry
    Surprise
    Sad
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

metalmulisha5006

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: 990's vs 781
« Reply #34 on: June 05, 2015, 08:05:50 PM »
Well my throttle linkage and base plates were junk so after a trip to jegs new linkage baseplates and bowls I'm gonna get this damn set up to work in the am...
  • Boat #1: 77 python bubbledeck
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