SoCal Jet Boats
Tech Talk => Engine Mechanical / Electrical => Topic started by: Tylertjeep73 on January 16, 2015, 09:38:06 AM
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So I used the seach function heavily
468 BBC high with OT Bassett headers
The oil is milky, now in reading every other thread on here
I just wanna verify my action plan
Turn off header water and test
Gate the cooling water from the jet with a gate valve and set for 160 when running hard
If that doesn't fix the issue
Pull the intake manifold and reseal it
Anything else I'm missing here ?
Compression test was a little low at 95 on my Matco tester on all cylinders and it passed a blowdown
So I'm pretty sure it's not head gasket issues
Also pulls good vacuum when running
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Do all your plugs appear normal?
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That would be a good plan. Have you changed anything lately that could contribute to the problem? Have you noticed your t valve coming on earlier the normal.
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I just got the boat hasn't even hit the water yet
All plugs are normal good element and proper coloration
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Your plan will be a good starting place. Does it have a big cam?
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It's noticeable but not too lopey
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It's a lunati voodoo supposedly middle of the range
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So I used the seach function heavily
468 BBC high with OT Bassett headers
The oil is milky, now in reading every other thread on here
I just wanna verify my action plan
Turn off header water and test
Gate the cooling water from the jet with a gate valve and set for 160 when running hard
If that doesn't fix the issue
Pull the intake manifold and reseal it
Anything else I'm missing here ?
Compression test was a little low at 95 on my Matco tester on all cylinders and it passed a blowdown
So I'm pretty sure it's not head gasket issues
Also pulls good vacuum when running
I'm going to cone back to this. This information is incorrect.
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So I used the seach function heavily
468 BBC high with OT Bassett headers
The oil is milky, now in reading every other thread on here
I just wanna verify my action plan
Turn off header water and test
Gate the cooling water from the jet with a gate valve and set for 160 when running hard
If that doesn't fix the issue
Pull the intake manifold and reseal it
Anything else I'm missing here ?
Compression test was a little low at 95 on my Matco tester on all cylinders and it passed a blowdown
So I'm pretty sure it's not head gasket issues
Also pulls good vacuum when running
160°F at idle. Not balls to the walls.
What rpm are your headers starting to wet?
What size is the outlet of your dump line.?
GT
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Hasn't even been on the water yet but at idle they are pouring water out the weep holes
160 for idle copy that
And 5/8
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At idle in the driveway with the hose on super low flow
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Hasn't even been on the water yet but at idle they are pouring water out the weep holes
160 for idle copy that
And 5/8
There should no water to a fine mist coming out of the headers at idle.
Do you have anything coming out of the headers? Did you turn on the water and then start the motor?
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No motor then water
I hydro locked my first one once... Never did that again lol
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There should no water to a fine mist coming out of the headers at idle.
Do you have anything coming out of the headers? Did you turn on the water and then start the motor?
Correct.
No header water at all running on the hose.
GT
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Hasn't even been on the water yet but at idle they are pouring water out the weep holes
160 for idle copy that
And 5/8
I personally guarantee you do not have a 5/8" outlet fitting. Probably closer to 3/8". I'm not talking about the hose. Talking about the actual dump fitting in the side of the hull.
You can use a drill index to get a diameter.
Up to about 450hp, you should be about 3/8" max. The higher the hp, the bigger the dump fitting. After about 800hp, you should have two dump lines .
You caused your own issue.
It sounds like something is plumbed incorectly if you were running at 160°F and still have water at the headers.
I would pull the tee apart and check it for a broken spring or rusty parts.
Ir may even have some crap, like a stick stuck in it.
GT
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Compression test was a little low at 95 on my Matco tester on all cylinders and it passed a blowdown
So I'm pretty sure it's not head gasket issues.
The important thing is that it is consistent from cylinder to cylinder. I ran three different compression gauges (two were loaners from AutoZone) on mine over a period of about a week and the readings were all over the place. First time out, I thought I melted my engine down because the first AutoZone loaner was indicating only 40PSI.
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I just got the boat and am solving a pre existing issue I have had the boat literally a day
I'm going to set my initial temp when I get on the water the first time so I'm just gathering the information
The t has a small ball bearing and a spring and appears to be in good new condition
Tho dump hole in the side of the boat is big enough to fit a half inch drill bit into
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I just got the boat and am solving a pre existing issue I have had the boat literally a day
I'm going to set my initial temp when I get on the water the first time so I'm just gathering the information
The t has a small ball bearing and a spring and appears to be in good new condition
Tho dump hole in the side of the boat is big enough to fit a half inch drill bit into
Wow.
Did this boat run properly before you got it?
I am guessing no.
You will likely need to decrease the size of the dump fitting. It will otherwise run way too cold.
GT
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Where do you live you may have a close by member to you with some knowledge
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Where do you live you may have a close by member to you with some knowledge
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Ill be screwing around all day tomorrow at my shop if you wanna bring it by. I see your in claremont, my shops in pomona. Pm me or send me a text. Dennis - 9096643517
"RTCP"
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We have some amazing people on this site. Thumbs up!
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Thanks guys!!! I fitted the dump line to 3/8 like gt said
I'm on my way to laughlin so I'll see how it goes ? Lol
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Jumping in with both feet.... Be careful and methodical checking her out. No need to force an engine overhaul right out of the barn. B
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Thanks guys!!! I fitted the dump line to 3/8 like gt said
I'm on my way to laughlin so I'll see how it goes ? Lol
Make sure the headers do not come in until after about 1500rpm. The water temperature is pretty much irrelevant.
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Make sure the headers do not come in until after about 1500rpm. The water temperature is pretty much irrelevant.
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I added a billet gate valve in addition to the tee in order to refine my water control. Just a thought.
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I was just going to run them dry this has a valve for now but if I stick with it I got some stainless plugs for the headers I hope dry solves the oil issue as well
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I hope there's nothing major with the motor. Hang in there my Hallett buddy.
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Hallett buddy you got my back !
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Hallett buddy you got my back !
Hallett buddys for life! Hahaha
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I can't wait to get out there with you guys !! Haha
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Post some pics on the water.
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Will do
Pray for a trouble free maiden voyage
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Does she have a name yet and you have to christen her with a splash of distiller beverage.
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There's some strong contenders... But only a couple that it might get
Just depends what sticks this season
BROJET 2.0 in honor of the first jetboat which definitely saw some epic good times and got HAMMMMMMERRRRD on relentlessly
And VONDAAAAA because our place out by bullhead is next to the coolest little dive bar named "the wonder bar"
The first jetboat was a ranger with a 460 and a jacuzzi got it cheap cause it had a huge hole where a Seadoo hit it lol
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No pics???? That may not be a good sign.
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No pics???? That may not be a good sign.
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No pics???? That may not be a good sign.
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Was thinking the same thing. But I hope all went well.
"RTCP"
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How's the Hallett doing ??
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I fear the worst.
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I hope not. That would suck he just bought it.
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True. Sounded like he knew goi g in there was an issue though. Perhaps he got a killer deal on it.
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Well I hope he got a good deal. that would suck if he didn't know about the problems. That happen to me. My boat ran great when I bought it. Then the motor blew up the second time taking it out.
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Ouch. Mechanically mine has been fine. I've had to do a lot of glass work and re glass work to save a very expensive paint job.
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Shit happens. There fun when they are running
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Agreed. Hope to make it to a few events this year. It's been since 07 since she's been on the water :(
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I hope to make it out too. The Hallett has not been to the river in 2 years. Just socal lakes.
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Well let's make it a point to hook up. Brian n Debbie
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Sounds great. Bob and Jenny.
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Took it out ran great definitely fast... Very fast
Header water off Significantly less milky oil!!!
It still seems like it's not firing perfect and is hard/reluctant to start... Cylinder #1 plug got pretty fouled up after runnin but it runs hard when it is goin !
I'm gonna pull the heads do gaskets and intake gaskets rebuild the carbs this week and I don't even know where to start to get the gelcoat looking better
Got new tires on the trailer for some peace of mind too today :))))
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https://www.dropbox.com/s/19mybm56xwn0usq/VID_20150119_113814.mp4?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/19mybm56xwn0usq/VID_20150119_113814.mp4?dl=0)
That's a Dropbox link lol I apologize for my whacky friends in advance hahaha
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Glad to see the Hallett is running good. Bad ass boat Hallett buddy.
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Awesome. Make sure you flush that oil out well. Also a good color sand and clear coat will frighten your gel. I have a guy local.
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Thanks I love it
Pm me with that guys info ??
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Pm sent
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I added a billet gate valve in addition to the tee in order to refine my water control.
Where did you get the billet gate valve? Please post a picture.
Thanks,
Joe
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I believe it was red marine several years ago b
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Sorry Rex Marine
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I'll take a pic when I get home.
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I'll take a pic when I get home.
Thanks
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I just checked Rex' catalog and they are under header valves if you want to take. Look
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Valve
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Valve
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I like how you have that mounted. You have your engine cooling going through that or just headers?
Thanks again
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Just the headers. I have a gate valve off the pump then into the bypass for the engine.
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Valve
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Pretty much the same. Not sure of price difference. I know Rex offers anodized colors too.
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Rex is cheaper just looked
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Valve
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Valve
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If they have them.......
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If they have them.......
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I was really biting my tongue. ... Glad you said it. ...:-X
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Began pulling it apart tonight :)
Any input what I'm working with ?
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Are you going to pull it completely out?
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I was just going to pull the top end off And
Have the heads pressure tested and have a pass run on them so I know they are flat and new head gaskets/ anything else I come across I only have a shitty driveway and enough tools ...
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I have a machinists straight edge we can check them with. You would just need to research the tolerances.
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You are super close by hahaha
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If you are going to go to that trouble, you might pull the timing cover and cam sprocket so you can see what cam you have. Post up pics of the pistons or if there is a part number on top of the piston, that can help you determine your approximate compression ratio. That will be a good place to start.
Cheers,
Joe
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Began pulling it apart tonight :)
Any input what I'm working with ?
If I read the numbers right ::),
1967 oval port 101 cc closed chamber.
http://www.castingnumbers.info/site/detail/488/3909802 (http://www.castingnumbers.info/site/detail/488/3909802)
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I'm assuming that means good lol?
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Pulled one head :))
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Well full roller motor it would appear.
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Full roller first head was good no bad gasket so I'll do the second one tomorrow :)
Also the valves look really big ...??? Anyone ??
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Do you have a dial caliper?
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I have a digital ... Starrett
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Guess you need to measure those valves.
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Will do taking my chick to eat since she sat and watched me pull that for an hour and a half haha
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Will do taking my chick to eat since she sat and watched me pull that for an hour and a half haha
You should have handed her a wrench LOL
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Haha she was handing me wrenches and beers lol
I think one cylinder head weighs more than her though so she was useless there haha
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Haha she was handing me wrenches and beers lol
I think one cylinder head weighs more than her though so she was useless there haha
Hand her a wrench and a hoist. BAM!! Done.
;D
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Valves are 2.22 and 1.96
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Tyler your doing fine if you start listening to most of these guy's you won't have her. Beer and wrenches is just what you want and maybe a little parts running. Oh and on the parts thing make sure that you placed them on will call.
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Get her into it, my girlfriend/wife helped me set my motor in the CP, and she loves helping me wrench!
"RTCP"
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Haha I must be doing somethin right lol these heads must have some pretty mean flow with valves that big
factory is much smaller right ?
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Well pulled the other head that one front cylinder was definitely getting steam cleaned
No obvious signs of a head gasket leak :/... Makes me worry I felt like the head bolts around it were looser too though
The valve guide on the exhaust side seems to be pushed up too took a pic of a good one and bad one for comparison
Any cylinder head gurus here ??? Or someone with a crack testing machine ? Magnaflux haha
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Hey buddy how is the motor coming along in the Hallett?
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Heads should be done Monday ... I'm gearing up to pull the block so I can paint it figure I should do it while I'm here and it's winter :)
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Heard that. What color are you going to paint it?
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Red future plans dictate it should be red lol
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Red future plans dictate it should be red lol
Sounds good. Red is a good color on a block. What about Chevy orange since it is a chevy motor. just an idea.
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Crossed my mind but it hasto be red it's the only way ;)!
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That will look good my friend!!
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It will next season when it gets paint :)
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The block or the whole boat next season?
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Whole boat
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Nice are you going to back to original? Love that metal flake on the gel coat.
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Pulled the motor for paint and to inspect the bottom end
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How does the bottom end look?
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I haven't had a chance to open it yet
Heading to Johnson valley tonight for king of the hammers
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Cool have fun
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Yea it will be a good time !
Prob pull it apart tomorrow
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Cool
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Bottom end looks bitchin a couple small spots of light rust/discoloration on the crank
Rods and mains all looked great
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Gonna grind all the casting flash off the block smooth out everything I can then paint
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Looks like you've got some cool hardware on that BBC. The exhaust guides actually pass through the water jacket in the head. If it moved for whatever reason (valve seized, bad fuel, bad installation, etc) it could cause the leak. A pressure test at a competent machine shop will tell you for sure.
(I know I'm a N00b here but I manage a 10,000 sq ft automotive machine shop. Not saying I'm a guru but I have a bit of engine experience I'm happy to share ^-^ ).
BTW, warp spec on those heads it .004" overall. On higher performance engine if I can get any feeler gauge under a straight edge anywhere on the head I recommend a shave.
Good luck with the project! Looks like a blast!
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Thanks bud
I have had the heads milled
And all new valve guides installed
Pulled the motor went over the bottom end today and cleaned it all up and painted it as well
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Looks like you will be ready to rock for the season...
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I gotta get out there with all the people who have been so supportive and helpful on here !!!
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I've yet to get out as well. Boat's been moth balled for a while now.
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Let her rip !
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That's the plan. Two or three more hurdles and we are good.
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What do you need to get done ?
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Waiting on the new starter and adapter for the four point Mount. That has to line up then some fuel and see if the carbs will cooperate. After that off to puddings tone for a test. Back to Billy B for a few touch ups on the paint then out to AZ for good.
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You just runnin 91? How long has it been sitting ?
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Since 07. I have to go high octane sometimes with additive. Made the mistake of filling with dock gas and detonated a piston. Not letting that happen again.
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Go to cable airport and pay the 35bucks for a fuel pass
Av gas is some potent stuff
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Go to cable airport and pay the 35bucks for a fuel pass
Av gas is some potent stuff
Whas av has go for a gallon?
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Ha I won't travel to AZ with it. Made that mistake too and had to repair the clear coat. We will see what Laughlin airport has to offer.
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To be honest I never notice ... I'd say about 4 5 a gallon
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Thanks bud
I have had the heads milled
And all new valve guides installed
Pulled the motor went over the bottom end today and cleaned it all up and painted it as well
Is that Chevy orange paint I see?
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No it's called Chevrolet red though haha
It just looks orange in the picture
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I believe it's a red orange.
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Well there was Chevrolet red
And then a Chevrolet red orange
I got the red did like 6 coats and then cleared it over both paints were 650 degree engine enamel
It looks pretty shiny :)
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Look nice
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It will next season when it gets paint :)
Same issue just happened to my motor. Do you have water injected headers? My motor is at the shop right now, been magnafluxed and heads have been checked. Motor was solid. Only thing I can come up with was the t-valve either stuck open or is just old. It's an $80 part to buy it new or rebuild kits are $20.
'96 Carrera Eclipse "Boobie Bouncer"
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Headers are dry now ;)
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Any help on choosing head gaskets ??
It had copper gaskets before is there anything better ? Thinner?
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If you have the correct surface finish on both your heads and block, Cometic makes a variety of thicknesses and custom bore sizes in their MLS (Multi-Layer Steel) down to a certain thickness (I don't remember). Below that thickness, they are not MLS, just steel shim.
http://www.cometic.com/technical.aspx
I have used SCE Pro Copper with o-rings trouble-free. I like the concept of their new Titan copper gaskets that have a seal printed around the water/oil passages. If you reuse the Titans, you need to use another means of sealing as the printed seals are a one-time deal.
Pro Copper and Titans require the block to have o-rings installed.
NOTE: aluminum heads require receiver grooves machined.
The new SCE ICS Titan gaskets look interesting. They integrate the o-ring wire into the copper gasket so additional machining of o-ring grooves is not required.
http://scegaskets.com/products/
Try to keep your quench height under .055 if possible. Since you are hungry for compression, a larger bore, more piston-to-wall clearance, more bearing clearance, colder water temperature, aluminum rods, etc. will all affect the minimum quench height that you can run.
Cheers,
Joe
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Is your block o-ringed? If so, you are better off putting the same thickness copper back in.
http://scegaskets.com/master-catalog/ has the requirements for the percentage the o-ring needs to protrude above the deck for a specific gasket thickness.
Cometics will not work with o-ring grooves.
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Not O ringed
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But yes I'm compression hungry haha
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Damn I didnt read everypage but I wanted to see the billett Gate valve. All I saw was a billet 3way valve
Maybe I missed it.
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You mean this.
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No head gasket advice ? Thin as can be Lol
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No head gasket advice ? Thin as can be Lol
What are you looking for?
Copper coat some MLS gaskets and get it together... Look at the Cometic catalog.
As was already asked, have you had the machined surfaces verified?
GT
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Sum nice "Fittins" on there.
I think its a 4 way selector valve though isn't it?
Doesn't matter I got one of those to select which tank left right both or off. Sure is nice to not count on that old Chevy truck style tank switch lol
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http://www.cometic.com/catalogs.aspx (http://www.cometic.com/catalogs.aspx)
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So the cometic is pretty thick and you are saying apply copper coat to the gasket ?
Fel pro makes a thinner one but Ive heard bad about them...
The block is zero decked and the heads are freshly milled
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So the cometic is pretty thick and you are saying apply copper coat to the gasket ?
Fel pro makes a thinner one but Ive heard bad about them...
The block is zero decked and the heads are freshly milled
Cometics are available in many thicknesses. If your block is zero decked, run a .045 gasket. Don't run any thinner than .035. I would stay above .040 or you run the risk of the piston smacking the head. It all depends on the clearances; piston to wall (piston rock), rod & main bearing, and wrist pin. Everything doesn't stay concentric as the engine runs, it moves all over.
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So the cometic is pretty thick and you are saying apply copper coat to the gasket ?
Fel pro makes a thinner one but Ive heard bad about them...
The block is zero decked and the heads are freshly milled
The Fel-Pro fits a much larger bore and therefore has a larger volume.
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It had an 8180pt2 felpro in it
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It had an 8180pt2 felpro in it
Bore: 4.370 in.
Compressed Thickness: .039 in.
Compressed Volume: 9.700cc
http://m.summitracing.com/parts/fel-8180pt2
That's thicker than .035. You can refine the bore size to match your block with a Cometic.
For example, if your bore is 4.280 the difference in CCs would be 0.391cc. Not a whole lot, but every little bit adds up.
More importantly, sealing surface area is sacrificed by going with a larger bore diameter gasket. I feel that this is an area that can promote burned heads and blocks.
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Bore: 4.370 in.
Compressed Thickness: .039 in.
Compressed Volume: 9.700cc
http://m.summitracing.com/parts/fel-8180pt2 (http://m.summitracing.com/parts/fel-8180pt2)
That's thicker than .035. You can refine the bore size to match your block with a Cometic.
For example, if your bore is 4.280 the difference in CCs would be 0.391cc. Not a whole lot, but every little bit adds up.
More importantly, sealing surface area is sacrificed by going with a larger bore diameter gasket. I feel that this is an area that can promote burned heads and blocks.
Only thing I'd add to this is to keep the size of the cylinder chamfer in mind when sizing a head gasket. Every bore has to have a chamfer to allow the rings to slip into the cylinder. I've seen them range from .010 to .050 per side (so double that for over-all OD) depending on who chamfered it and how. If the ID of the gasket rests on the chamfer there is that much less surface of the gasket sealing and combustion can actually work it's way under the fire ring.
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Back in!!!!
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Looking good.
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Been super busy but I am so amped for river season! Can't wait to get it going
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I heard that buddy can't wait.
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Yea dude I'm dying ... Lol like DYINGGGG
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Heard that when should the Hallett be ready? Hey when you removed the foam out of the bow did you replace it or left it open for storage?
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Open for storage I filled my recycling can 3 times ... There was a ton of foam!!
I'm working on some unique storage in there
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Open for storage I filled my recycling can 3 times ... There was a ton of foam!!
I'm working on some unique storage in there
Nice are you going to put any foam or any in the bow?
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Nope wasn't planning on it
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Nice
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Did you have to add any support under the bow?
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No my chick layed on it the other day while I did the motor and it was solid she's only 95lbs though haha
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I have damn dance party's on the bow of my boat. Even had chases fat ass standing up there and it doesn't budge. Hallett are SOLID
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Good to know cuz I want to remove the foam for storage
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No my chick layed on it the other day while I did the motor and it was solid she's only 95lbs though haha
Nice.
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Damn chase prob weighs like 200 lol
That bow glass is pretty thick
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Damn chase prob weighs like 200 lol
That bow glass is pretty thick
Lol he's like 230 these days
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Nice a new project for the Hallett. Removing foam for bow, installing the new tanks and buying a puke tank.
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That foam is a wicked bitch to remove idk how big of a dude you are but it's tight up there
And 230 !? Damn hahaha
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Well I just want some storage. How tight does it get?
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Depends how big your portal of entry is haha
Idk it's worth It for some oars and life vests
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Copy that.