SoCal Jet Boats
Tech Talk => Engine Mechanical / Electrical => Topic started by: Ckaz21 on February 13, 2014, 06:49:22 PM
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I thinking about selling my 049's and going with a set of bare rectangle port Procomps and having my machinist assemble the valve train. Anyone have any reviews of procomps?
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Ive heard NOTHING but horrible things about them ( Pro Crap ) . Ive never owned a pair and never plan on it. Ive known quite a few people who have had very bad luck with them and regret ever buying them.
Thats all I really know about them.
Saving a few bucks now might end up hurting you in the long run.. Just my opinion!
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Absolute garbage. The time it takes to machine and fix everything you could just buy a set of good heads. Cheap Chinese casting etc.
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I thinking about selling my 049's and going with a set of bare rectangle port Procomps and having my machinist assemble the valve train. Anyone have any reviews of procomps?
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Pro CRAP is right! You can pick up a pair of brodix BB2's bare for about 1300. Spend the money on quality parts.
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If your gonna go thru all the work of having heads built, you might as well start off with good bare castings.
Bolted on a set of C&C'd procomps, went 10 minutes stuck a valve and cost me 7 grand.
My mistake for not having them checked out.
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I have a pair on my boat, the guy that I bought them from said buy them bare and he did everything else, so far very good luck with zero problems. Boat has 1 season and 50 hours with no issues! Everyone has there opinions about them, hopefully I will prove them wrong LOL :P
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Pro crap pro crap only thing good about those heads ahhh nothing recycle them at aluminum shop ..blew up my engine twice with them ..crap crap crap .. If u got 100hp and a rod knock in the engine there good
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I picked mine up from a guy in montebello probably 7 years ago after reading a column in super chevy mag. Think it was Larry's something shop. Any ways, super chevy did a build with the pro comp heads and "Larry's" was the machine shop that did the work and dyno tuned the motor. I was 16 building a 496 for my Chevelle saw this then flipped the page and there was the add for these heads and had to have them and my birthday/Christmas/job money was burning a hole in my pocket so off we went. I ended up getting the "best" package "Larry" offered. Big Cnc ported polished bla bla bla stainless valves, 5 angle cut and all that fancy stuff. Picked em up for 1400 and all the hardware was comp cams. Everything, the guides, springs, retainers/clips and they even came with the 3/8 push rods and for an extra 50 I got the 7.1? Ratio roller tip rockers also comp cams brand. Needless to say I did no research on them until I got home and I was sick to my stomach after that. No one in my family is really mechanically inclined and I had no one to go to for advice and never thought to research them. So I said screw it and continued with it figured why not, if I blow it up I'll just build it better next time. 7 years now and I haven't blown it up yet and i have been flagged and kicked for breaking 9.0 mark in the quarter with no cage.
Would I buy them again? Probably not because of all the reviews I have seen. But do I regret buying them, nope.
FYI, daily driving a car with no fender wells tends to dirty up everything under the hood.
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I have heard that when you buy the heads complete that they are crap. When you buy them bare and put better valve train in them the work just as good as the expensive heads. I know a guy who makes about 700hp with a set and is going to run nitrous. The heads are good castings but just crappy valve train. Just remember that to build up a set of heads may run you about $1000-$1800 depending on what parts you put in them.
THE BEAV
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If your gonna go thru all the work of having heads built, you might as well start off with good bare castings.
Bolted on a set of C&C'd procomps, went 10 minutes stuck a valve and cost me 7 grand.
My mistake for not having them checked out.
exactly the same thing happened to a friend of mine. except i told him not to buy the heads. or to at least have them gone through first. was hard not to laugh and point and do the nelson "HAHA"!
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I think it's all about who builds the motors and does the head work... I laugh at all the people that say they are junk, I think it's because the lack of talent or knowledge putting them together, just my opinion.
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I have heard that when you buy the heads complete that they are crap. When you buy them bare and put better valve train in them the work just as good as the expensive heads. I know a guy who makes about 700hp with a set and is going to run nitrous. The heads are good castings but just crappy valve train. Just remember that to build up a set of heads may run you about $1000-$1800 depending on what parts you put in them.
THE BEAV
I agree, FYI mine was $1250 complete, heads, guides, valves, springs and a little machine work / porting.
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I think it's all about who builds the motors and does the head work... I laugh at all the people that say they are junk, I think it's because the lack of talent or knowledge putting them together, just my opinion.
That's me, lack of talent and knowledge, but I wasn't laughing. Found out later about the quality/ clearance issues.
Since then I've bought a set of Edelbrocks and a set of Darts. They were check out and were good to go right out of the box.
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I'll probably stay away from the Procomp's and get bigger valves in my 049's for now. When I have the money I'll get a nice set of heads.
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I would stay away from the Chinese made heads. Buy American made only. I have a set of darts on my sbc that I bought complete for 1100 brand new and that's all I've had on our motors. My dad sbc makes 800 hp going through the lights at 8 grand with a set of dart heads and dart block. Never had an issue.
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I tried to give the whole procomp deal a try a while back... I got sucked in on a pair of 460 heads and thought, "Wow! What a great deal." That was the one and only set I have ever sold, as soon as the fella put them on, 1 river trip out, a valve seat fell right out. Upon inspecting the rest of what was left, I found ALL the intake seats were ready to fall out. A little effort with a punch and the rest fell right out themselves. A little time... and A LOT of examples of the procomp lack of quality passing through my doors later... I would NEVER in good conscience sell another customer a pair even if they begged and offered double the money.
Can you MAKE them work? Sure. I have had a few folks bring them in after seats falling out, guides blown out after 2 seasons, etc... and after extensive work, new seats, new guides, they were ready to go.
Are they "just as good" as more expensive heads? Absolutly NOT! This not an opinion... this is not based on "a lack of talent" (I hope... I'd like to think I have some sort of talent at this shit) needed to build them properly... this is A FACT based upon empirical evidence! Besides poor machine work... besides a very loose interpretation of "tolerances"... besides moderate to severe casting shift... besides all this on several dozen sets I have personally set my own eyes on... besides using recycled vs "virgin" aluminum in their castings... besides all that, the fact is, physically weigh a procomp, and them weigh an Edelbrock/AFR/Brodix... the weight difference is quite noticeable. Then, take a look at the castings themselves and see where strength was sacrificed for cost savings... deck thickness, runner thickness, material around the rocker bosses... material in the spring pockets... these are a few areas you can see without sawing the head in half... and if you do, you can REALLY see just how thin they are. Then, take their "flow numbers" that they provide and cut them by 35-40%... when flow tested on a 3rd party superflow 600, we found them to be not just a little, but really ******* far off from what procomp claims to be their flow numbers... combined with a fairly large runner size, and you have a head that, by them numbers, is far inferior to a smaller runner, better flowing, name brand head.
I'm sure there are folks out there that have had nothing but good luck and therefore "proven" then entire rest of the automotive/marine world to be wrong... but I would rather look upon those anecdotal instances and the exception and not the norm. I have yet to find that elusive "free lunch" in my lifetime... and firmly believe that you truly get, more times than not, what you pay for. Good parts cost more not because the people making them are not greedy, evil corperations, and procomp is somehow owned by a benevolent guy just trying to give shit away cheap... that's left-wing crack-pot liberal crap "thinking"... and people that believe that, thanks for stopping by while waiting to sign up for your obamacare. The cost difference is good parts, made from quality materials, by people earning a decent wage, with the right equipment, here in the United States, cost more than cheapie "knock off" stuff.
Can you make them work? Will they work for your application? Truth of the matter is... perhaps. depending of what you're doing, and what you do to them to make them work for your application. I'd use the analogy that yes, you can use a leaf rake to scratch your back, but there are a lot better things out there to do the job. Also, more times than not... guys switching from 049 heads to the procomp heads are actually going backwards. Most jetboat engines that are either sub-600 hp or 6100 rpm or less will perform much better from a nice, properly built, ported set of 049 heads than a set of procomps. I've built several dyno proven, 600+ hp single carb, pump gas 461-496 big blocks with the 049/781 heads... and I've found most guys, 600hp is more than enough to get their cruiser or family hotrod up and moving to their satisfaction.
The last point to be made... seriously... what is the real cost difference? A few hundred dollars? Buy a set of procomps for about 600 bare... or a set of Edelbrocks for what... 1200? 600 bucks really all the difference between building an engine and not? Then I'd really consider not drinking beer for a couple of weekends, saving up the money, and paying the 600 extra. The difference between quality and crap is less than the cost for 1 river trip.
That's my 2 cents... take it for what it's worth.
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I think that was more than two cents. But worth every penny. Thanks for the great info.
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I think that was more than two cents. But worth every penny. Thanks for the great info.
Sent from my iPhone using SoCalJetBoats
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I tried to give the whole procomp deal a try a while back... I got sucked in on a pair of 460 heads and thought, "Wow! What a great deal." That was the one and only set I have ever sold, as soon as the fella put them on, 1 river trip out, a valve seat fell right out. Upon inspecting the rest of what was left, I found ALL the intake seats were ready to fall out. A little effort with a punch and the rest fell right out themselves. A little time... and A LOT of examples of the procomp lack of quality passing through my doors later... I would NEVER in good conscience sell another customer a pair even if they begged and offered double the money.
Can you MAKE them work? Sure. I have had a few folks bring them in after seats falling out, guides blown out after 2 seasons, etc... and after extensive work, new seats, new guides, they were ready to go.
Are they "just as good" as more expensive heads? Absolutly NOT! This not an opinion... this is not based on "a lack of talent" (I hope... I'd like to think I have some sort of talent at this shit) needed to build them properly... this is A FACT based upon empirical evidence! Besides poor machine work... besides a very loose interpretation of "tolerances"... besides moderate to severe casting shift... besides all this on several dozen sets I have personally set my own eyes on... besides using recycled vs "virgin" aluminum in their castings... besides all that, the fact is, physically weigh a procomp, and them weigh an Edelbrock/AFR/Brodix... the weight difference is quite noticeable. Then, take a look at the castings themselves and see where strength was sacrificed for cost savings... deck thickness, runner thickness, material around the rocker bosses... material in the spring pockets... these are a few areas you can see without sawing the head in half... and if you do, you can REALLY see just how thin they are. Then, take their "flow numbers" that they provide and cut them by 35-40%... when flow tested on a 3rd party superflow 600, we found them to be not just a little, but really ******* far off from what procomp claims to be their flow numbers... combined with a fairly large runner size, and you have a head that, by them numbers, is far inferior to a smaller runner, better flowing, name brand head.
I'm sure there are folks out there that have had nothing but good luck and therefore "proven" then entire rest of the automotive/marine world to be wrong... but I would rather look upon those anecdotal instances and the exception and not the norm. I have yet to find that elusive "free lunch" in my lifetime... and firmly believe that you truly get, more times than not, what you pay for. Good parts cost more not because the people making them are not greedy, evil corperations, and procomp is somehow owned by a benevolent guy just trying to give shit away cheap... that's left-wing crack-pot liberal crap "thinking"... and people that believe that, thanks for stopping by while waiting to sign up for your obamacare. The cost difference is good parts, made from quality materials, by people earning a decent wage, with the right equipment, here in the United States, cost more than cheapie "knock off" stuff.
Can you make them work? Will they work for your application? Truth of the matter is... perhaps. depending of what you're doing, and what you do to them to make them work for your application. I'd use the analogy that yes, you can use a leaf rake to scratch your back, but there are a lot better things out there to do the job. Also, more times than not... guys switching from 049 heads to the procomp heads are actually going backwards. Most jetboat engines that are either sub-600 hp or 6100 rpm or less will perform much better from a nice, properly built, ported set of 049 heads than a set of procomps. I've built several dyno proven, 600+ hp single carb, pump gas 461-496 big blocks with the 049/781 heads... and I've found most guys, 600hp is more than enough to get their cruiser or family hotrod up and moving to their satisfaction.
The last point to be made... seriously... what is the real cost difference? A few hundred dollars? Buy a set of procomps for about 600 bare... or a set of Edelbrocks for what... 1200? 600 bucks really all the difference between building an engine and not? Then I'd really consider not drinking beer for a couple of weekends, saving up the money, and paying the 600 extra. The difference between quality and crap is less than the cost for 1 river trip.
That's my 2 cents... take it for what it's worth.
Nice write up here Bostick. I agree 100% with what you said here. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
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SIX-OH-ONE :thumbup: and that my friends is why socaljetboats.com kicks ass
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I tried to give the whole procomp deal a try a while back... I got sucked in on a pair of 460 heads and thought, "Wow! What a great deal." That was the one and only set I have ever sold, as soon as the fella put them on, 1 river trip out, a valve seat fell right out. Upon inspecting the rest of what was left, I found ALL the intake seats were ready to fall out. A little effort with a punch and the rest fell right out themselves. A little time... and A LOT of examples of the procomp lack of quality passing through my doors later... I would NEVER in good conscience sell another customer a pair even if they begged and offered double the money.
Can you MAKE them work? Sure. I have had a few folks bring them in after seats falling out, guides blown out after 2 seasons, etc... and after extensive work, new seats, new guides, they were ready to go.
Are they "just as good" as more expensive heads? Absolutly NOT! This not an opinion... this is not based on "a lack of talent" (I hope... I'd like to think I have some sort of talent at this shit) needed to build them properly... this is A FACT based upon empirical evidence! Besides poor machine work... besides a very loose interpretation of "tolerances"... besides moderate to severe casting shift... besides all this on several dozen sets I have personally set my own eyes on... besides using recycled vs "virgin" aluminum in their castings... besides all that, the fact is, physically weigh a procomp, and them weigh an Edelbrock/AFR/Brodix... the weight difference is quite noticeable. Then, take a look at the castings themselves and see where strength was sacrificed for cost savings... deck thickness, runner thickness, material around the rocker bosses... material in the spring pockets... these are a few areas you can see without sawing the head in half... and if you do, you can REALLY see just how thin they are. Then, take their "flow numbers" that they provide and cut them by 35-40%... when flow tested on a 3rd party superflow 600, we found them to be not just a little, but really ******* far off from what procomp claims to be their flow numbers... combined with a fairly large runner size, and you have a head that, by them numbers, is far inferior to a smaller runner, better flowing, name brand head.
I'm sure there are folks out there that have had nothing but good luck and therefore "proven" then entire rest of the automotive/marine world to be wrong... but I would rather look upon those anecdotal instances and the exception and not the norm. I have yet to find that elusive "free lunch" in my lifetime... and firmly believe that you truly get, more times than not, what you pay for. Good parts cost more not because the people making them are not greedy, evil corperations, and procomp is somehow owned by a benevolent guy just trying to give shit away cheap... that's left-wing crack-pot liberal crap "thinking"... and people that believe that, thanks for stopping by while waiting to sign up for your obamacare. The cost difference is good parts, made from quality materials, by people earning a decent wage, with the right equipment, here in the United States, cost more than cheapie "knock off" stuff.
Can you make them work? Will they work for your application? Truth of the matter is... perhaps. depending of what you're doing, and what you do to them to make them work for your application. I'd use the analogy that yes, you can use a leaf rake to scratch your back, but there are a lot better things out there to do the job. Also, more times than not... guys switching from 049 heads to the procomp heads are actually going backwards. Most jetboat engines that are either sub-600 hp or 6100 rpm or less will perform much better from a nice, properly built, ported set of 049 heads than a set of procomps. I've built several dyno proven, 600+ hp single carb, pump gas 461-496 big blocks with the 049/781 heads... and I've found most guys, 600hp is more than enough to get their cruiser or family hotrod up and moving to their satisfaction.
The last point to be made... seriously... what is the real cost difference? A few hundred dollars? Buy a set of procomps for about 600 bare... or a set of Edelbrocks for what... 1200? 600 bucks really all the difference between building an engine and not? Then I'd really consider not drinking beer for a couple of weekends, saving up the money, and paying the 600 extra. The difference between quality and crap is less than the cost for 1 river trip.
That's my 2 cents... take it for what it's worth.
You drink $600 in beer in a couple weekends? :o
I'm partying with you bro. I am more than a little impressed. 8)
In all seriousness, great post, could not have said it better myself with a bunch of practice. :thumbup: :thumbup:
GT
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You drink $600 in beer in a couple weekends? :o
I'm partying with you bro. I am more than a little impressed. 8)
In all seriousness, great post, could not have said it better myself with a bunch of practice. :thumbup: :thumbup:
GT
Perhaps more than a couple weekends... and throw in the odd mixed drink from time to time. Anything worth doing, is worth doing right... and if I'm gonna drink... I'm gonna give it my all to do a quality job of it. :) :beer:
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Amen
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Good video
"WARNING" DON'T- bolt on "New in the Box" heads on your motor without. 1.0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmVVoUT7Di0#)
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Amen, absolutely a great video. I DO run a set of ProComp BBO heads. These I bought bare casting. I did the port work, matching and a little deburring, mic'd the guides (OK), took the heads to my machinist. Had Pat mill the heads .0015" for truing, and set the RA for the gaskets. I also handed him a new set of Farrea 2.07" Intakes and 1.71" Exhaust stainless 1 pc valves which I had him set the seating angles at 45 degress as opposed tio the normal 30. I then set the heads up with Comp Cams springs, retainers and locks and seals and guide plates and studs. The block is studded and have Diamond 11.88:1 custom forged pistons. My cost on all this is still less than a set of Ebrocks that would need massaging.
I do agree whole-heartedly to never buy & bolt out of the box equipment for any engine or trans, or drive unit. Take your time, measure EVERYTHING 2or 3X. Make sure the equation will work.