SoCal Jet Boats
Tech Talk => Engine Mechanical / Electrical => Topic started by: socaljst1970 on November 10, 2014, 05:54:42 PM
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Well gang - as you may know i have spent tons of time and cash getting this motor happy and running again. Been out on her a few times and even had a great Saturday this last weekend with friends. Went out Sunday for a quick buzz around with one of the kids and while spinning around laps with others, blam, stopped running well again. If anything figured valve train, cracked open valve covers, looks great. compression test, all good until I got to the damn #7 - ZERO - I mean nothing. backed off valve train and still nothing. new heads? old block? dunno but I am done wrenching myself. Looking for suggestions on trusted people to drop her with for a motor swap, repair, whatever..... was so damn tickled too - ran a solid 61 time and time again. for 3 hours. :( Chime in guys and dont kill me with bad jokes (I know I will take a verbal beating somehow) - a little sore on this one...
HELP WANTED :/
3 hours... UGH!
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That sucks !!! sorry man. ok what kind of motor are we dealing with????
So nothing on #7 did you hear anything when it dropped ???
Did it run with only 7 cyl.
My guess dropped a valve, it bent and thats that! Now i have seen a valve break like a cresent moon and was able to fix it .
pull the plug out of that cyl , remove the rocker arms and check the hieght of the valves if they look good , your half way there!
next find something to pry with and push down a little on the valves (one at a time!!! ) wont have to move them very much, to know if its bent!
if you want i can walk you thur it!
Call me! 408 671 8449
Good luck. Tony.
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Tony thanks for the kind supportive words and making me get up and just pull the rockers on that hole rather than loosen them.....
O M F G
Found the culprit..... opening a beer and breathing deep :banghead:
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Dang! Sorry to see that.
Sent from my iPhone using SoCal Jet Boats
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guess who gets to hear from me in the morning on this one...
http://www.skipwhiteperformance.com/ (http://www.skipwhiteperformance.com/)
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OH SH_T!!! that sucks!!! Go a couple of beers!!! it does not look good!!!
You May get lucky , but i would not hold out hope. How high of an RPM were you going???
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on the beers now :/
5200 rpm - nothing crazy.....
i cant imagine anything else that causes this at that RPM than retainers just letting go at that low of an rpm right? anyhow.... can wonder forever.....
so tired of futzing with this, its not even the money so much as the time....
fyi, it ran but was knocking (i could have sworn was a rocker that fell off, limped me home ok)
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i dont think the retainers failed , pull the valve spring and take a pic. from what i can see it looks like the valve stem broke????
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valve spring lifted with my hand no issue - half a retainer left on spring, cant find other half. valve stem wont come up or push down with moderate force (using pliers) .....
thoughts?
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correction - found the other retainer (that was in place in an earlier pic without valve in it) - dropped when i pulled the spring. check the pics....
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Valve guide to tight or floated the valve. Piston hit valve
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Hey, check your pics!!!! the one you took that shows the retainers , one of them is wrong!!!!!! its missing the retainer tang!!!!! AT least thats what i see!!!! LOOK AT THEM THEY DONT MATCH!!!!
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very very hard to photo - but from the naked eye easy to see, one does not have the middle level step (tang?) - they do look different, and not like it was shaved off, just not there....
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Ok so heres the deal, if it was shaved off then your stem was to tight but if it is just missing(the tang) THats what happened! you need BOTH of them. and at 5200 rpm they just flew out, and dropped the valve.
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thanks for catching that..... there cant be ANY reason this is ok other than sub par parts or head assembly - will be all over this in the mornin....
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Glad i could help, Good luck!
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blown up view of what one of the retainers does NOT look like
http://www.compcams.com/catalog/COMP2011/pdf/COMP_Catalog_2011_356-357.pdf (http://www.compcams.com/catalog/COMP2011/pdf/COMP_Catalog_2011_356-357.pdf)
catching on here...... thanks again tony and others.... will see what tomorrow brings....
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I agree with Ralph on this one. Snug guide. Weren't these "off the shelf heads"?
GT
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Do you have a picture of the bottom side of the rocker arm?
Actually the more I look at this the more I am thinking coil bind. This is making me sick, sorry bud. Did the water system at least work this time around?
GT
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thanks Glen and the water system is perfect :)
bottom of the rocker is beat now but I limped it back to the dock so it took a bit of a thrashing. the other rocker on the same cylinder (and the rest of them) show no contact marks - just clean roller tips....
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Going to be interesting to see how this plays out once the head comes off...
Sent from my SPH-L720 using SoCal Jet Boats mobile app
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For sure. At the point though where I am not convinced I really want to be an after hours wrench again..... just not fun to me. Looking for other options....
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Got her torn down - waiting on the head guy to check out the pictures. Looks like the piston kept its composure though.....
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Well I'd say you may have gotten lucky!!!! The head maybe the valve and what it did to the head maybe the only damage. Clean the piston up and fix the head and get ur back together.
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Wow. I want to get a set of these Skip White heads. After seeing this I am not sure. Skip White boasts he has an impeccable head assembler and how great everything is. Let us know what he does for you.
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Added some pics to summarize. Turns out (I am told) that my pushrod length is off from the head change. See the poly locks on the intakes? Anyhow, that made the rocker push the valve at an angle and start to beat out the locks. With #7 failing first....
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ec7dcnx5cp417hq/AACmw1fhqAnM08EEeb3ueT6va?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ec7dcnx5cp417hq/AACmw1fhqAnM08EEeb3ueT6va?dl=0)
Heads are being repaired and sent back (my dime but very reasonable)
When they return, the heads and my box of parts and the block all go in for a professional rebuild, including pistons, etc and then a dyno tune.
All I will have to do is right a check (ugh) and put the motor back in and forget about this part of boating :)
Updates when i have some gang. As usual, thanks for all the help!
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Another day in the project done! Motor pulled and prepping to go drop it off for a refresh and build with dyno at QMP!
Thanks to my Dad who stopped by and helped with the geometry of pulling the motor from this tall hull (nipple height on the trailer) with a picker made for a car :)
Deuce we sure miss you, but pulling the stops out and this boat will be sick when done!
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We hit the road to day and dropped off the motor and a check. Needless to say very excited. Mike at QMP is a great guy and gave Victoria and I the nickel tour of the shop. Very impressive to say the least - the eye candy there was almost too much to handle :) And everything from the CNC machine to the wall to wall mega HP engines was just a treat to say the least!
Now we hurry up and wait - time to focus on the hull, interior and wiring for a while