SoCal Jet Boats
Tech Talk => Engine Mechanical / Electrical => Topic started by: Marcsrollin on September 04, 2007, 10:38:08 AM
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Has any one running a bassett T ever had a problem with it not opening?
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Has any one running a bassett T ever had a problem with it not opening?
I read just recently that too much water pressure can damage the spring and cause it to malfunction. It didn't say if it didn't open or what.
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i have never personally experienced it but have heard of needing to remove and clean the valve
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i have never personally experienced it but have heard of needing to remove and clean the valve
I need to find a water pressure guage for my boat so I can limit the amount of water flowing to the engine. Too much pressure can mean blown gaskets.
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Well if you are running through transome headers I would advise aginst it!! Here is a couple of pics why and what could happen!
[attachimg=#]
[attachimg=#]
And then at that point you have two 4 inch holes dumping water into your boat!! And one 1/2 hole ( bilge pump ) dumping it back out! It is a lose lose situation!
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Well if you are running through transome headers I would advise aginst it!! Here is a couple of pics why and what could happen!
And then at that point you have two 4 inch holes dumping water into your boat!! And one 1/2 hole ( bilge pump ) dumping it back out! It is a lose lose situation!
Thanks for the warning but I'm running OT Rewarder Headers. But I did blow a head gasket this last week-end due to too high of water pressure coming in from the pump.
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marc, when i had my tt bassett's i ran double hose. on the end of the header its 3 1/2 inch and then i ran a 4 inch over the top of that, all the hose probs were solved, and i didnt idle too much because its the heat that caused that. and not having enough water to cool the hose
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:o
so were you able to keep the boat afloat?
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:o
so were you able to keep the boat afloat?
NO!
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NO!
:(
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The trick to running through transom headers is very little "HOSE". 3 1/2" Aluminized or stainless exhaust pipe will help stop that and then use the hose to only hold the joint together. Make sure you cut the pipe to fit. Very smal gapps in any.
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Marc I am sorry to hear your boat went for a dive- as for the t valve, It has stuck on me a couple times and cause one header to go try. I could hear it imeadiatley and if I tapped it it would start flowing again. Squirt some wd-40 and your good- dont know much about the water pressure- Are you running baffles???
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Call Jim at Rewarder Headers. He has his own version of the Bassett T-valve. Essentially the same thing, he can answer any questions you have about it sticking etc. He is very honest and Headers for boats is what he does primarily. He is a great guy and if you end up driving to his shop take an interest in the Woody Willy's he's got in there... It's bitchin. Rewarder's number is 1-805-445-1015. I have Jim's cell number if you need it.
I ran Rewarder's T-valve without a hitch and my old Caribbean was on the water 2-3 times a week since march. He gave me a much better price than Bassett too, without the Bassett attitude.
P.S. Rewarder makes their headers in the good ole USA in Camarillo, CA. It is my understanding that a lot of Bassett's stuff is made in Mexico...
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The basset T is coming out and I am going back to a ball valve. That way I can adjust it and if it goes dry it will be my own fault.
The boat is saved and there was no water in the engine and it fires right up!
All I have to do is get some more 4 inch exhaust hose and replace 2 plug wires and my boat is right back on the water.
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Marc, run the T-valve regardless. Put the ball valve in front of it... That's how I had mine. The T will keep you from sucking water in during the overlap at idle... The ball valve will always let water through, doesn't seem like a good idea to me. Maybe weaken up the spring in your T or plumb the headers so the water dumps into the collector instead of the individual tubes. If you don't want to listen to some punk kid (me) please call Rewarder before you decide to run just a ball valve. That was an idea I floated around when I first got a jet boat and put headers on it.
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I plan on putting the ball valve up by the driver seat so I can turn it off at idle and turn it on while running. The bassett t still leaves the possibility of getting stuck shut and that is not a option again.
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just an idea......did ya check the lines? i have read many cases of people "burning up" ot headers because the lines got clogged with trash or debris. (ie: plastic bag or lake weed)....this also could also be a possibility....or even clogging your t valve.
I suggest to go with Jim's suggestion....get some aluminum tube and replace as much of that rubber as possible with only using the exhaust hose as a coupler between the riser/tube and tube/exhaust port. This will eliminate that long piece of exhaust tube thats a disaster waiting to happen.
there are other options to the basset T that havent been mentioned....the other is the banderlog vavle www.banderlog.com ...check it out....electriconicly controled vavle.
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I already planned on using pipe instead of hose , that was a no brainer right away after this experiece.
Here is the ball valve I plan on running! It has high , medium and low water flow settings.
[attachimg=#]
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My first thought .
1. The overboard water comes from somewhere near the thermostat housing into a "T"
2. One side is plumbed into your Bassett T valve and then into your injection lines to clean the primaries chrome .
The other side goes the back and splits again so each collector has the rest of the overboard water flowing into it . I hope you werent running a T-valve into your collector hoses . Thats the only way I can see a valve taking a shit and having that happen . T-valves were only designed to be plumbed into your injection lines . Not into your overboard water lines that should be free flowing and unrestriced into the collectors .
I'm interested to see your plumbing Marc . I really hope that was the extent of the damage too .
-beerjet-
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When the water comes directly out of the pump I put a brass T , one side of the T goes to a ball valve and then to the engine cooling system and the other side of the T goes to a ball valve then to the bassett T I got from you for the headers. Then I put a water exit in the transome for the water coming out of the engine.
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Mike told me today that he's had a Bassett T stick on him. He said that the T had gotten clogged with sand and weeds and crap.
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Your through transome headers should be plumbed almost identicle to this .
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bassettracing.com%2Fimages%2Fdiagramjet.gif&hash=37dff0b9eb70be27ba353280e6a71496093eedbc)
1. From your pump into the water pump inlets .
2. Split out of your thermostat housing .
3. One of the lines should go to the T-Valve and then on to your injection lines .
4. The other line should go to the back of the motor and then T-off again to both of your collectors . That is the rest of your overboard water that should have kept the hose cool enough (as opposed to just going to an overboard outlet) . All of your overboard water should be dumped through the collectors .
-beerjet-
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Instead of dumping out through the collectors , I just put a out in the transome.
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Those T-valves have been know to take a shit just like Rod stated . They do sell the spring and ball seperately also . Fuk bro ! I feel like shit !
-beerjet-
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Instead of dumping out through the collectors , I just put a out in the transome.
There is no way on GODS green earth the mist that the T-valve lets through could cool that hose enough .
-beerjet-
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It's been running great all season long till the bassett T got stuck shut.
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I have never had one stick closed, but I have had many that get stuck open and let water in at idle. The design if plumbed right make it almost impossible to stick closed. The spring is what presses the bal onto a seat and that causes the water to stop flowing to the headers. Just check to make sure you have it correctly plumbed. With that control valve you will one time or another forget to turn it on or off.
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You can get a 3/8 water pressure gauge from the hardware store, use it to replace the water drain plug on the side of the block. It s a cheap way to insure you are not pushing the pressure limits, especially since you are making changes to the plumbing configuration. Ive been fighting the water in oil problem, I cant go over 15psi or gaskets leak. (copper). decided to go with the pressure bypass rather than the regulator. High flow at low rpm to keep it cool. Running the manuel valve for the header water.
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Got the T apart and it turns out that if you get the smallest amount of sand in it it wedges behind the ball and does not allow it to move.
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Well now that fukin sucks .
-beerjet-
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You'll regret running just a ball valve. Why don't you run a high-flow inline filter in front of it to keep the sand/crap out. Just clean or replace the filter every once in a while. Try to stay out of shallow water. Remember, even at idle your pump will suck shit from 3-4' down. As a rule of thumb try to run it in not much less than chest deep water. That will prevent a lot of problems. Don't forget to pull the little drain petcocks out of your block and run water through it to flush sand out of your block. This is sounding more like the users error than it does equipment failure. Sorry Marc.
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Here's a stupid question, why didn't you make your engine's water outlet dump into the header's collector's, where those bungs are just sitting there?
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just get a Banderlog valve and never worry about it again
http://www.banderlog.com/products/waterInjectionValve/waterInjection.html
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just get a Banderlog valve and never worry about it again
http://www.banderlog.com/products/waterInjectionValve/waterInjection.html
I've seen the link before but never clicked on it, that thing is SIK and next season I will have one of those on my boat. ;)
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just get a Banderlog valve and never worry about it again
http://www.banderlog.com/products/waterInjectionValve/waterInjection.html
BTW, I wouldn't try that on through transom headers like marcsrollin has, I'm sure the headers 4" rubber tube needs cooling all of the time, back to the "why not dump the engine's water outlet into the header collector's?"
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BTW, I wouldn't try that on through transom headers like marcsrollin has, I'm sure the headers 4" rubber tube needs cooling all of the time
I REALLY dont think you want to be pumping water into your headers under 1500rpms. Thats the reason for the valve. :-\
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I REALLY dont think you want to be pumping water into your headers under 1500rpms. Thats the reason for the valve. :-\
Marc's boat has through transom headers. Marc's boat's headers have 5 water inlets per each header. 4 of those water inlets are on the header where it attaches to the cylinder head, just like "normal" boat headers. The 1 other water inlet on those headers is in the collector, which is after the header rises and falls below the boats water line. So although I agree with you that you don't want water in the 4 water inlets below 1500 RPM's, I disagree with you that you don't want water in the collector below 1500 RPM's.
Let's see what Marc's reply is as to how many RPM's he was turning when the header collector's rubber hoses failed. Marc?
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Marc's boat has through transom headers. Marc's boat's headers have 5 water inlets per each header. 4 of those water inlets are on the header where it attaches to the cylinder head, just like "normal" boat headers. The 1 other water inlet on those headers is in the collector, which is after the header rises and falls below the boats water line. So although I agree with you that you don't want water in the 4 water inlets below 1500 RPM's, I disagree with you that you don't want water in the collector below 1500 RPM's.
Let's see what Marc's reply is as to how many RPM's he was turning when the header collector's rubber hoses failed. Marc?
got it.
edit: btw, wasnt arguing, just misinformed about the setup on these.
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O0
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just get a Banderlog valve and never worry about it again
http://www.banderlog.com/products/waterInjectionValve/waterInjection.html
Im getting one of those cause this whole valve thing phucks me up. Open / close. Screw it :o
2sav
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You guys still need to keep debris out of that electronic thing don't you? I'm not sure why everyone is sold on that. Now it's more complex. more complex=more possible problems.
Shit I'm an IT guy and I'll be the first to tell you the latest aint always the greatest. I used the T-Valve with a regular old home depot status ball valve and inline fuel filter in front of it. Every now and then I'd open up the filter and clean it out. You should still be dumping water into the collectors like I said on page 1.
"Maybe weaken up the spring in your T or plumb the headers so the water dumps into the collector instead of the individual tubes."
Just don't take the water away from the individual headers. Instead take the outlet off your transom and dump it through the collectors. If you're not gonna listen to anyone on here you might as well call the professional at Rewarder. they did make the header's you've got didn't they? Plumbing headers is something they do very well. What I'm saying is what he told me to do.
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You guys still need to keep debris out of that electronic thing don't you? I'm not sure why everyone is sold on that. Now it's more complex. more complex=more possible problems.
Shit I'm an IT guy and I'll be the first to tell you the latest aint always the greatest. I used the T-Valve with a regular old home depot status ball valve and inline fuel filter in front of it. Every now and then I'd open up the filter and clean it out. You should still be dumping water into the collectors like I said on page 1.
"Maybe weaken up the spring in your T or plumb the headers so the water dumps into the collector instead of the individual tubes."
Just don't take the water away from the individual headers. Instead take the outlet off your transom and dump it through the collectors. If you're not gonna listen to anyone on here you might as well call the professional at Rewarder. they did make the header's you've got didn't they? Plumbing headers is something they do very well. What I'm saying is what he told me to do.
Yea, I don't think debris is good for anything in that system. Also, that relay system is not the cure for through transom headers as there still will not be water going through those runner hoses at 1500 or 2000 RPM's (depending on where it's set at.
As far as more parts = more possible problems, I agree with that to an extent, but man I got to say that I love cold beer and I ain't getting rid of that fridge and trading it for a large tub of salt anyday of the week. ;) KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) is good but so is techonology.
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I am gonna try to answer everyones questions and comments here.
1.I was at wide open throttle when it happend.
2.The headers are made by Bassett not rewarder.
3.Everything worked fine the way it was set up for many many many hours of ideling and WOT all season long the way it was set up.
4. I did not run the dump water from the engine through the headers due to not feeling comfortable with that much water flow to my headers incase the flaps got pushed shut due to slowing down and getting water pushing on them from the outside.
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I am gonna try to answer everyones questions and comments here.
1.I was at wide open throttle when it happend.
2.The headers are made by Bassett not rewarder.
3.Everything worked fine the way it was set up for many many many hours of ideling and WOT all season long the way it was set up.
4. I did not run the dump water from the engine through the headers due to not feeling comfortable with that much water flow to my headers incase the flaps got pushed shut due to slowing down and getting water pushing on them from the outside.
1. So much for Rod's "it must have happened at idle theory"... :-[ ;D
2. :D
3. I definately agree with that. ;)
4. It's worked for countless boats with through transom logs and snails.
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Agreed Rod.
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O0
wtf does that mean?
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just get a outboard mark ;D all the water is out of the boat or new over the transome header. >:D
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as for the debris deal the Banderlog has a cleanable filter...just simply unscrew and wash it out..The banderlog has proven itself to many boaters so don't knock it
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wtf does that mean?
Hell I don't know :o
OBs are my favorite now;
http://video.tinypic.com/player.php?v=6b0rrrl
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Hell I don't know :o
OBs are my favorite now;
http://video.tinypic.com/player.php?v=6b0rrrl
just playing O0
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Hell I don't know :o
OBs are my favorite now;
http://video.tinypic.com/player.php?v=6b0rrrl
That is just TOO COOL!!!
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No one is knocking it. Cleanable filter you say? That goes back to saving money and using what you already have, while just putting a cleanable filter on the hose in front of it. T-Valves have also served Jet boaters very well.
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I just installed the Bassett Tee on my flatty and I am STILL flooding the exhaust, I mean I am blowing right past this thing. I have a small cam driven water pump and have a -10 hose going over the side and the other half of the water plumbed to the Tee. I'll look today and see if I dont have any debri in it, but i'm flowing out of ALL the weep holes and running a shower out the back at idle and even when it shut off for a while.
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Sounds like you need the bassett restrictors!
They are a -8 fitting with a with just a small hole through them!
[attachimg=#]
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Sounds like you need the bassett restrictors!
They are a -8 fitting with a with just a small hole through them!
(Attachment Link)
gottem, gotta check for debri in the Tee, goin for flow control next...and the screen, dont take much to plug them jets, may even have them on all eight too
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there's some misinformation going on in here. I have TT Bassetts, ran it with the Bassett tee until a few weeks ago when I switched it out to a Banderlog valve.
With the Bassett tee, you must run the dumps to the collectors to keep the rubber hoses from burning. Running it any other way is just running on borrowed time.
You also need a gate valve between the Bassett tee inlet and where you have it coming out of the engine, usually the thermostat housing. One side of the thermostat housing goes to a tee and then each side of that tee goes to each collector.
The other side of the thermo housing goes to a valve and then to the Bassett tee. The valve is where you adjust the amount of water/pressure going to the Bassett tee which operates off water pressure. When you're in the water, you bring your idle up to about 1800 and start turning the valve until you see steam. Raise the idle to about 2000 and start letting off. The steam should stop right about 1800, if not readjust until it adjust until it does.
The tee valve is to help prevent bluing the headers and the water to the collectors is to prevent burning the rubber hoses.
The Banderlog valve is a very simple and easy plug and play item. It works off the tach signal to turn the water on and off at either 1500 or 1800 to the injectors only, you can also set it on the race only setting for no water. It has nothing to do with the cooling of the collectors. The Banderlog has a built in filter that's easy to check and clean when necessary and some people have install a prefilter for added filtration. People have also added prefilters to the Bassett to help it last longer also.
I hope this helps.
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oh yea, to adjust the Bassett tee with tt headers, I found it easiest to take one of the lines to the injectors off so you can see when the water flows. With water dumping into the collectors, it's very hard to see when the tee starts flowing.
here's a picture of the tt Bassetts so you can see the different hook ups
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi97.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl204%2FCas2006%2FParts%2520Pics%2Fheaders1.jpg&hash=a810dbba3da0a0c485804ce3cc31a6cf9cb556cd)
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ok, so i go out and pull the tee apart. Guess what, I think everybody whoes seen this thing has unscrewed it to see whats inside. I pull it apart and the ball is in the middle of the spring! I put the spring and ball in correctly and Boda Bing, works perfectly...dont even need the control valve, didnt have one on my jet either. But yea, dump that water in the collectors Mark and lets ROLL!!!
PS: Thanks again Ralph
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since you're running it on a flattie with a water pump, that set-up won't put out near the pressure a jet pump will. Good that you found the issue and it was an easy fix. You might consider replacing the ball and spring every couple of years to be safe though.
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since you're running it on a flattie with a water pump, that set-up won't put out near the pressure a jet pump will. Good that you found the issue and it was an easy fix. You might consider replacing the ball and spring every couple of years to be safe though.
Yea, or squirt it w/ WD during off time
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Yea, or squirt it w/ WD during off time
the spring can still get weak but that may be less of an issue with your set-up.
another btw, if anyone is reading this that own Rewarder TT headers, they hook-up a little different but still have some of the water dumping into the collectors.
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I waste a spring every season/year.
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Well, maybe a little to much water. Jim, did you find out anything about that valve?
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... another btw, if anyone is reading this that own Rewarder TT headers, they hook-up a little different but still have some of the water dumping into the collectors.
I think Marc's TT headers are Rewarder's...
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As far as springs go try to find a correct size squared wire spring instead of the round. I don't know what you would call them exactly, but they last much longer...
This is the closest I could get to finding a picture of what I'm talking about. I got one at a local hardware store...
http://store.airgun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog.prodInfo&productID=293&categoryID=38