SoCal Jet Boats
Tech Talk => Engine Mechanical / Electrical => Topic started by: AQUAHOLIC on September 19, 2007, 04:02:53 PM
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just got a deal from a friend of the fam that will give me a blown big block for 4k. complete motor. i just cant really afford it right now and i would have to redo all the mounts and shit in my boat to hold the extra power. plus cut a hole in my fiberglass engine cover. just thought i would extend the offer to you guys.
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SELL THE YZ AND CUT THE HOLE! haha. Sounds bitchin, that would be my answer...
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I'm down ;D
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Not to mention , will the panther take that much HP?
-beerjet-
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ya i dont know. from what i hear panthers dont perform well with engines that push over 500hp. and my boat is a mini day cruser. it would be sweet as hell to have though. but i think i am just going to go back to stock.
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So.......whats up w/ the blower motor?
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nothing my uncle said i can have it if i want it. 4k. it is probably worth a lot more. i have not seen the motor yet but he said it is a running blown motor. i can call him for the specs if someone is really interested. it is out of my price range and i am not sure if that would be the right choice for my boat. plus we have a blower that will fit my 454 at the shop if i do ever decide to go that route.
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To clear up some misconceptions about the Panther... I am not really a Panther fan, but was kinda forced to learn a little about them.
Panther's component wise can handle 1000HP sustained in stock form and not break. Since they are axial (like a screw) flow pumps they drop off in efficiency because there is a much greater gap in tolerances inside the pump. As a result the pressure built by the impeller causes the water to backflow around the impeller and interfering with the intake (causing cavitation). Another problem is that the nozzle is so damn big. Because the nozzle is so damn big they flow a lot more water but don't build up pressure. In short, Panthers are great low RPM pumps. They're very efficient out of the hole. I've seen them pull 100, but there aren't many of them doing it. My buddy is doing 80's with his small block and stock panther. Impeller cleared at .0024; not exactly efficient. Maybe Tom can elaborate.
So the parts can handle the power. But the pump just isn't efficient when forced past a certain RPM. HP is needed to get past that RPM.
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Aquaholic as you probably know that blower motor (assuming everythings cool with it) is a "smokin deal " Were currently building two BBCs one with a 256 marine blower and one with a "Hampton 671'. Blower kits alone are 3k and a good BBC "engine core' is commanding 5 to 6 hun in my world .Swap out to your boat is cake I'd go for it if its in the budget. RE the Panther ... I've bought /sold /owned /driven a ton of boats over the past 25 years I've had a couple of pretty decent and fairly quick Panther drive boats.The Blown sbc boat that Undone showed me last week was very impressive indeed and I was humbled by it . However that said , it (the Panther ) is still not my personal "weapon of choice" And I'm not sure how it will or may respond to that motor if you were to install it Tom
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Aggreeing with you Tom. Thank's for the input. If it wouldn't go over 70 don't be surprised...
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when the boat was running i was at about 4300rpm and about 40mph. i would like to go faster but i would also just like to have it work for a weekend.
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Aqua.. lets make that cruiser "HUMP" call your uncle get the time payment plan ??? Tom
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good plan...
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Ha!!! Something on this board I'm good at!!! ;D
If yer not mechanicly inclined ...ask yer Uncle what the compression is . Low is good. What type/size of blower. Big is good in my book!!! Less overdrive = less heat in the intake. Yet ya still move air.
4 lbs of boost will wake it up!!! Back the timing up. it'll be happy. Snow boost coolers with straight
methinol in the tank if ya lean on it. REALLY cools the temps without spending a fortune!!
Bottom line....keep it fun and in the water!!! O0
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going to check out the motor. you guys got me thinking. i will ask about a payment plan
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Thats the "spirit" GET R DONE !! Tom
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ok so i could not get a hold of the guy with the motor but i got harold working on the info this week. i think i am just going to get it. it will up the resale of the boat and i will have more fun till i sell it. my question to youguys is. i am most likely going to have to add a rear motor mount right? right now the motor just clamps onto the panther pump. also can change the panther impeller to a higher speed impeller.
right now i was pushing 4500rpm at about 42 mph. i dont see how more hp will get a highr top speed. it will just get me there faster right??
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Aqua I don't recall the details on what your current set up is but you'll have some bits and pieces and some retro-fitting ,happy to help coach you on this if you need help Tom
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got some more info on the motor. it has rolller lifter and rockers low hours a wilan blower good pistons and rods all it needs is a carb. it is a complete running motor. with blower for 4k. not a bad deal.
but after some more research i think i am going to pass on this myself if any of you want it let me know.
For 3k i can get my stocker rebuilt and do the interior so i think that is more important. also i have a blower sittin in the fiberglass shop. so when i decide to go force fed i can just change what i need to equp the blower that i already have.
thanks for all your info guys.
is 1200 a good price for a rebuild, that includes new block,crank,and cam?
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Assembled and returned to you running? If so it sounds like a real good price assuming they are honeing/boring the cylinders and setting clearances for a jet boat. If you are assembling it depends on what machine work they are doing . Internal balancing?
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ya it is getting clearance and assembled. i just have to drop it in. i gave them everything from carb to oil pan. i cant find it any cheaper. it is the same engine shop that built my last motor so they are trying to help out where they can.
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Sounds good. Have you had the pump checked out? If not you should find out what your tolerances are in there... In my buddy's panther rebuilding it to go from 34 thousandths to 20 was a difference of 8 MPH in his Haskell, not to mention a whole lot more out of the hole. The only thing left to do is slap the B stator housing on the back for a little more squirt. It's a little tougher to get top speed out of a panther but you can do it. They're not my favorite pumps but you can definitely work with them.
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what is this b stator housing you speak of. The pump was rebuilt the summer before the boat was stored for a couple years. then i bought it. and i have not touched it. How do i find out what impeller i have on mine.. and what are some of my options for changing it. I dont do much skiing off my boat so it is just a cruiser. also i tried to change the jet pump gear oil once but i could not get that stuff out of there.. so i just left it. it smelt kind of bad and looked a little milky.
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If I'm not mistaken the Impellers are pretty standard... The stator housing is Panthers "equivalent" to the bowl setup on a mixed flow pump.
The B model housing designates use with a big block typically. The B housing has a smaller nozzle than the A housing (usually paired with a small block). So with the smaller nozzle you get a little more go power on the top end. However if you're tolerances are not tight enough you will actually sacrifice performance and get more of a freewheeling effect as the impeller builds RPM and water pressure. As the pressure build it will go around the impeller... The tightest tolerance Panther suggests is 12 thousandths. This tolerance can be achieved by using more or less a sleeve that gets pressed into the pump, very similar to a wear ring in a berkeley. It's relatively inexpensive. In fact Panther will do the work for you including freshening up the pump. They're not unreasonable with their prices. The proof is in the pudding, and I promise all these ingredients work. You could get a lot more speed out of a mixed flow pump, but you gotta work with what you got...
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Heres an example of a Bronze sleeve we did, not sure currently but several years ago Panther charged several hundred dollors for this Tom
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi147.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr319%2Fjetboatperformance%2FPanther%2520Prototype%2FDSC07262.jpg&hash=c43f04e58f97e3d2ad61c521b4761b136dc0722c)
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That's the one! Thanks Tom. We had a lot of fun with my buddies little Haskell. Like I said, Panther's aren't the most efficient pump but you live with what you got until you can afford otherwise. In the meantime they have potential to do pretty well... As Tom seems to be, Panther is very helpful. Give them a call if you have any questions. They can provide better answers than I can. I've only taken a small role in one pump, they're the creators...
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ya once i get this motor back i would like to have my panther gone thru and make sure it is all up to par. and if we can squeeze some more mph out of it that is fine.