Actually, you're advanced.



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Adjusted the chain one tooth forward and one tooth back. This resulted in the timing marks very obviously not lining up. So it seems the place a had it originally is the correct position. I'll see what clay smith has to say about it tomorrow but I know they will just ask me to bring the engine to them so they can degree it. I really don't want to put my half assembled engine in the back of my truck.


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No... i mean zero out your indicator on the base circle... then at .050" lift from the base circle... what is the degree number you are seeing?


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Base circle is base circle.

As long as your wheel is centered at true top dead center, the lifter will reach .050" at the same exact spot in degrees. No matter the starting point.

I feel you are reading the wheel incorrectly. But again, not there starting at it.

Did you use a piston stop to determine tdc?

I thought you did.

GT

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At 93 the smaller the number the more advanced it is, so 93 subtracted from 108 is 15 degrees advanced, try setting it at 4 retard and running thru it again you should be closer, the number should get bigger, that should tell you if you are going in the right direction, maybe to much or not enough,  460 fords
 are all like that. not like a chevy

Based on your statement, "It traveled 336 degrees to get to .050". I see the following:

When you zeroed your degree wheel at TDC, both lifters are on the base circle of the cam lobe, i.e. TDC #1 Firing Position.  You rotated the crankshaft 180-degrees to BDC (end of power stroke/beginning of exhaust stroke), then another 156 to where the tappet is at .050 lift.  180 + 156 = 336 crankshaft-degrees out of 720-degrees of crankshaft rotation to complete all four strokes of a four stroke internal combustion engine.

What you actually want to look at is cam timing events relative to the appropriate stroke (out of the four strokes).  So far, in 336-degrees of crankshaft rotation, the firing stroke is complete (180-degrees) and 156-degrees (out of 180-degrees) of the exhaust stroke have been completed.  Now the intake valve is starting to open during the overlap period, 24-degrees BTDC (Before Top Dead Centre).

If you add up the events and compare them to your cam card Intake Duration @ .050 of 231-degrees - add (24-degrees BTDC) + (180-degrees for the intake stroke) = 204-degrees.  Subtract 204 from 231 = 27-degrees or the @ .050 intake tappet closing point should be 27-degrees ABDC (After Bottom Dead Centre).  This is where you appear to be now, advanced 14.5-degrees.  According to your cam card (and my math), the @ .050 opening point should be 9.5-degrees BTDC and close 41.5-degrees ABDC.

I think you have some errors in your measurements somewhere.  I'm curious if, with your current setup, will your @ .050 intake valve closure point be 27-degrees ABDC?  I would recheck zero on your degree wheel to make sure it didn't get accidentally bumped (I do this all the time).

Next, get the peak lift point out of your head!  That point is totally irrelevant to finding centerline of your cam.  In fact, peak lift doesn't always correspond to lobe centerline.  Only concern yourself with the @ .050 opening and closing points.

Lastly, you may be fighting accumulated error.  From what I understand, the cam bearing bores are machined in a different operation than the main bores and the lifter bores in yet again another operation.  14.5-degrees sounds a bit excessive for the marks to be off, but if you get your numbers to come into spec and repeat, the engine won't care what number is stamped on the crank sprocket.

You need to get your technique down first.  A little extra practice won't hurt.

The following is FYI:

What does it mean for the end user who is degreeing his/her camshaft?  If the lifter bores are not exactly centered on the camshaft, cam timing will be either advanced or retarded.  Advanced if the bearing journals are shifted to the right or lifter bores are shifted to the left.  You may also find that the camshaft is not parallel to the crankshaft and the degree of advance/retard will vary from the front cylinders to the rear.  Then you have crank index, cam index, and manufacturing tolerance on everything compounding the problem.

What can be done about this?  Short of correcting the cam bearing and lifter bores, if you are OCD about your cam timing, centerline the intake lobes for the four corner cylinders and split the difference to achieve the best compromise between all cylinders.  Otherwise, only the #1 cylinder will be optimized and all others are an unknown compromise.

There are plenty of engines out there, that have had only the #1 centerlined, that haul the mail.  I'm only trying to say, you may be fighting accumulated error.

Good luck,

Joe

Man... I'm just going to be quite honest here... no offense intended, but you are making this way more complicated than it needs to be and way over thinking this. If you've gotten this far... you can figure this out.

The following is AFTER you are sure you have the degree wheel set for proper tdc... as in the degree wheel reads "0" or TDC... and the #1 piston is in fact, at Top Dead Center.
Rotate the crank until the lifter is resting on the base circle... heel of the cam... whatever... just so that it is roughly opposite of the lobe side on the intake lobe.
At that point... set your dial indicator to "0"... not the degree wheel... at this point... we don't even care what the degree wheel says.
Once your dial indicator is "zeroed" on the base circle of the cam... rotate the crank clockwise until that dial indicator on the intake lifter starts to move... when it does... keep rotating slowly, until you have reached .050" of lift... at that point, NOW you look at your degree wheel and whatever number it is pointing at, is your intake opening timing event for .050" lift... otherwords... intake opening @.050. What is THAT number?

If it still doesn't quite make sense... Feel free to give me a call and perhaps ypu can facetime what you got going on... it is either something super simple that your just overlooking...or some super screwed up part.


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Having trouble degreeing my cam on 460. Gears are installed straight up. From TDC I'm rotating clockwise to max lift. Zero dial. Turn to .050. Record number (45). Back up past max lift to .050. Record number (141). Divide by 2. This gives me 93. Numbers are way off. Should be 108. What am I doing wrong ?

Well I checked. Double checked. And checked again. And I'm still getting the same number. 93.
Does this mean the cam is jacked up? Or do I need to retard or advance the crank gear to a different key slot??? Seems really far off.

You said, "should be 108*" but your cam card calls for a 106* intake centerline.  (If your engine builder specified 108* then go with that.)

If you're certain that you are evaluating your intake center line correctly then, of course yes, you use the keyways on the timing chain set to make the adjustment--that's what they're there for.  The chain set need not be set in the 0* or "straight up" position.  Whether it's the cam, the chain set, the crankshaft keyway, or whatever combination thereof, etc, that is putting the camshaft out of phase is irrelevant--just get the intake centerline correct.  And be sure to verify both intake and exhaust lobe profiles per the cam card once the centerline is set.