SoCal Jet Boats

Tech Talk => Engine Mechanical / Electrical => Topic started by: kachina 22 on April 13, 2014, 08:10:21 AM

Title: cant get new motor to start
Post by: kachina 22 on April 13, 2014, 08:10:21 AM
Just built a new motor for the boat and can't get the dam thing to start!  Purchased a L's 6 short block re-done and ready to go, bolted all my old stuff on.  My starter was shot and is rear top right hand mount, always been reverse rotation!  Starter turns ccw rotating motor cw, my did rotor is turning ccw.  Motor pops back fires and using standard wire arrangement,  12756348. What amiI doing wrong or is rotation wrong some place?? Heeeelp

Thanks
Title: Re: cant get new motor to start
Post by: 73nordicbbc on April 13, 2014, 08:30:06 AM
Try 18726543 I did ls once not sure if it was ls1 or ls6

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Title: Re: cant get new motor to start
Post by: kachina 22 on April 13, 2014, 08:35:27 AM
I'll try that, why would firing order change?
Title: Re: cant get new motor to start
Post by: JBASHAM on April 13, 2014, 08:39:36 AM
What kind of motor is this??


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Title: Re: cant get new motor to start
Post by: kachina 22 on April 13, 2014, 08:42:51 AM
454, gen 3 block gen 5 heads, and my old cam
Title: Re: cant get new motor to start
Post by: kachina 22 on April 13, 2014, 08:47:43 AM
Is it common for rotor to turn ccw, does that effect the oil pump?
Title: Re: cant get new motor to start
Post by: JBASHAM on April 13, 2014, 08:53:17 AM
No the rotor is supposed to go CW. You must have the wrong starter on there. And the firing order is 18436572 nothing else.


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Title: Re: cant get new motor to start
Post by: JBASHAM on April 13, 2014, 09:00:10 AM
From the backside the crank should be turning ccw, so from the front it's actually going cw. All engines turn cw. Well I should say "most all" engines.


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Title: Re: cant get new motor to start
Post by: kachina 22 on April 13, 2014, 09:01:25 AM
OK, so with this block I no longer use a revers starter?  I have always had a reverse starter, I just replaced it is it turning wrong direction now? Its turning ccw looking from back to front, was told by teague marine that top rear Mount starters are revers, did the guy give me the wrong starter, that rotation seem right?
Title: Re: cant get new motor to start
Post by: JBASHAM on April 13, 2014, 09:16:58 AM
Rear top mount starter should (looking at the gear) rotate ccw. This can get confusing real quick talking front/rear of engine, front/rear of starter etc. no matter what the dist rotor should spin cw.


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Title: Re: cant get new motor to start
Post by: kachina 22 on April 13, 2014, 09:27:50 AM
OK, I'll check all rotation in a bit as to not wake up the neighbors lol, but I know starter is turning ccw turning the flywheel clock wise looking from the rear. I confirm this in a bit!

 Thanks for or help and patiance
Title: Re: cant get new motor to start
Post by: jamiemwedmore1234 on April 13, 2014, 10:01:37 AM
Make sure your timing is good I had a similar problem when I was was doing the initial start up and my timing was 180*'out


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Title: Re: cant get new motor to start
Post by: kachina 22 on April 13, 2014, 10:06:47 AM
Ya,  #1 piston at top, rotor pointing at #1
Title: Re: cant get new motor to start
Post by: uncleBOBBY on April 13, 2014, 10:06:51 AM
As far as i know
If you pop the cap and crank the motor
The rotor should turn clockwise, and the fireing order is 18436572


SRC 🚤💨
Title: Re: cant get new motor to start
Post by: kachina 22 on April 13, 2014, 10:10:59 AM
And my timing mark is in rite location on wheel
Title: Re: cant get new motor to start
Post by: JBASHAM on April 13, 2014, 10:28:27 AM
Once you get the motor spinning the right way, make sure it's TDC #1 on top of compression stroke.

1&6 are companion cylinders, so you can be 180 out even if timing marks are on


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Title: Re: cant get new motor to start
Post by: rush1 on April 13, 2014, 10:29:28 AM
18436572

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Title: Re: cant get new motor to start
Post by: GT Jets on April 13, 2014, 11:10:16 AM
If you have a "reverse rotation" bell housing starter, you have the wrong one. The distributor will turn clockwise in both reverse and standard rotation engines, the only thing that reverses is the crank.

How the heck did you end up with the wrong starter?

Keep in mind, if the distributor was going backward, the oil pump has not moved a single ounce of oil. Pick up and oil pump primer and build some oil pressure before you try to light it off.

Good luck.

GT
Title: Re: cant get new motor to start
Post by: kachina 22 on April 13, 2014, 01:19:46 PM
OK, checked rotation, starter turning ccw, flywheel turning cw looking from rear of motor to the front.  Had starter replaced last week, was told a ccw starter is revers rotation and have always had a reverse starter! So actually the starter should turn cw to be called reverse rotation?  Or has something changed?  Rotor turning ccw.  Think getting wrong info from different people and not the right info, his is why I'm completely confused...
Title: Re: cant get new motor to start
Post by: GT Jets on April 13, 2014, 01:49:27 PM
OK, checked rotation, starter turning ccw, flywheel turning cw looking from rear of motor to the front.  Had starter replaced last week, was told a ccw starter is revers rotation and have always had a reverse starter! So actually the starter should turn cw to be called reverse rotation?  Or has something changed?  Rotor turning ccw.  Think getting wrong info from different people and not the right info, his is why I'm completely confused...

Take a look at the harmonic balancer.

It has numbers indexed on it. The numbers on the BTDC side of the "0" should count "down" if the the rotation is correct, if they count "up" your stuff is backward.

You need what is called a rear mounted standard rotation starter...

They also make a rear mounted "reverse rotation" starter.

Title: Re: cant get new motor to start
Post by: kachina 22 on April 13, 2014, 01:54:07 PM
No degree on balancer, wiil have to purchase stick on type, if looking at balancer from the front it turns ccw
Title: Re: cant get new motor to start
Post by: Squirrel Master on April 13, 2014, 01:57:38 PM
Sounds to me u are backwards engine rotating wrong is the starter in original spot or did u try n top mount if top mount try going to original spot pictures would help
Title: Re: cant get new motor to start
Post by: GT Jets on April 13, 2014, 01:59:40 PM
No degree on balancer, wiil have to purchase stick on type, if looking at balancer from the front it turns ccw

Should be CW

GT
Title: Re: cant get new motor to start
Post by: kachina 22 on April 13, 2014, 02:03:47 PM
Haven't changed location, you the think the crank on the short block I got changed rotation?
Title: Re: cant get new motor to start
Post by: GT Jets on April 13, 2014, 02:07:05 PM
Haven't changed location, you the think the crank on the short block I got changed rotation?

Huh?
Title: Re: cant get new motor to start
Post by: kachina 22 on April 13, 2014, 02:09:04 PM
Starter
Title: Re: cant get new motor to start
Post by: kachina 22 on April 13, 2014, 02:14:50 PM
From what I understand the crank is what changes rotation of a motor and the fact I have always had a revers starter and everybody is saying I need normal rotation starter now?
Title: Re: cant get new motor to start
Post by: GT Jets on April 13, 2014, 02:20:40 PM
From what I understand the crank is what changes rotation of a motor and the fact I have always had a revers starter and everybody is saying I need normal rotation starter now?

The crankshafts are the same, the ONLY thing that changes on a reverse rotation deal is the starter motor, the timing gears and the firing order and the timing marks on the tab or the balancer, otherwise EVERYTHING is identical.

I assume you changed the starter since the rebuild?
Title: Re: cant get new motor to start
Post by: kachina 22 on April 13, 2014, 02:30:37 PM
Yes starter is new, had it fixed and was popping and back firing so figured they changed armature changing rotation. They gave me another starter that turned other direction and still have popping and back firing. I'm guessing I need old starter back ad recheck firing order and timing.  Just confused cuts nobody has told me wat rotation is on reverse starter, or I missed it
Title: Re: cant get new motor to start
Post by: GT Jets on April 13, 2014, 02:36:10 PM
Yes starter is new, had it fixed and was popping and back firing so figured they changed armature changing rotation. They gave me another starter that turned other direction and still have popping and back firing. I'm guessing I need old starter back ad recheck firing order and timing.  Just confused cuts nobody has told me wat rotation is on reverse starter, or I missed it

The armature, stator and Bendix are all different on a reverse rotation deal... Basically NOTHING is the same but the solenoid.

Good luck.
Title: Re: cant get new motor to start
Post by: kachina 22 on April 13, 2014, 02:41:20 PM
Thanks so much, the fact the rotor is turning wrong direction and motor answered my questions.

 Thanks everybody, great help, will keep u posted!
Title: Re: cant get new motor to start
Post by: JBASHAM on April 13, 2014, 03:31:11 PM
Like I said earlier you need a starter that (looking at the gear)rotates ccw. If u have the rear top mount like you said, this will crank your motor cw (looking at balancer)like it should be. Then follow the firing order from #1 on the cap clock wise. Make sure your on TDC #1 (compression stroke) and rotor should be pointing at 1.


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Title: Re: cant get new motor to start
Post by: kachina 22 on April 13, 2014, 03:42:44 PM
So if I have #1 up and rotor pointing at #1 and timing mark on spot I can still be off 180 deg, cuts couldn't get started when motor was turning in correct direction?
Title: Re: cant get new motor to start
Post by: JBASHAM on April 13, 2014, 04:12:33 PM
Yes 1&6 are TDC at the same time but different strokes.


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Title: Re: cant get new motor to start
Post by: JBASHAM on April 13, 2014, 04:17:53 PM
Pull #1 plug and cover the hole with your finger, now bump the motor a click at a time and when it blows air past your finger you are close to #1 TDC. Now rotate the crank with a ratchet till the mark is on zero. Rotor should be pointing at #1 at this point, unless its 180 out n which point it'll be pointing at 6.


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Title: Re: cant get new motor to start
Post by: kachina 22 on April 13, 2014, 06:54:04 PM
Ya that's how I set the timing, just have to get the other starter and start over tomorrow, even then was popping and up carb. Will let u know!
Title: Re: cant get new motor to start
Post by: kachina 22 on April 14, 2014, 06:41:30 PM
Got the boat started,  got the other starter and timing was 180 out, yaaa!

Thanks so much for everybody's, love this site!!
Title: Re: cant get new motor to start
Post by: kachina 22 on April 14, 2014, 08:15:55 PM
Got the boat started,  got the other starter and timing was 180 out, yaaa!

Thanks so much for everybody's, love this site!!
Title: Re: cant get new motor to start
Post by: GT Jets on April 14, 2014, 08:18:01 PM
Got the boat started,  got the other starter and timing was 180 out, yaaa!

Thanks so much for everybody's, love this site!!


 8) :thumbup: :thumbup:
Title: Re: cant get new motor to start
Post by: JBASHAM on April 14, 2014, 08:50:30 PM
Good job


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