Post by: GT Jets on July 13, 2016, 12:02:46 PM
Show of hands, who would have an interest in a valve to be used in place of the famous gate valve that will not only limit incoming water pressure, but also preheat the cooing water and control the flow at different speeds? I think I'm nearly ready to reveal what I've been playing around with for the last couple years.
This is going to be the next big thing. Seriously.
How much would one pay for a kit that would end the milky oil, the high oil usage, valve cover snot, and sketchy systems? .
GT
Post by: Cliffjumper on July 13, 2016, 12:24:50 PM
Post by: GT Jets on July 13, 2016, 12:33:14 PM
Depends on how it works
Let's just say it is a pressure and temperature controlled heat exchanger, expandable to also control oil temp.
It will have control of the incoming and out going water.
Fully adjustable and automatic.
I think it will be pretty slick.
GT
Post by: Bigblockchevy1691 on July 13, 2016, 12:42:52 PM
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Post by: FordLover on July 13, 2016, 12:56:37 PM
Let's just say it is a pressure and temperature controlled heat exchanger, expandable to also control oil temp.
It will have control of the incoming and out going water.
Fully adjustable and automatic.
I think it will be pretty slick.
GT
Can never ending love and friendship instead of cash pay for such an awesome valve?
Post by: coors909 on July 13, 2016, 01:09:59 PM
OK guys and gals.
Show of hands, who would have an interest in a valve to be used in place of the famous gate valve that will not only limit incoming water pressure, but also preheat the cooing water and control the flow at different speeds? I think I'm nearly ready to reveal what I've been playing around with for the last couple years.
This is going to be the next big thing. Seriously.
How much would one pay for a kit that would end the milky oil, the high oil usage, valve cover snot, and sketchy systems? .
GT
I want to see how one of these works!
Sent from somewhere in Cali
Post by: GT Jets on July 13, 2016, 01:25:55 PM
When I get an engine in White Trash I'm going to build a full size one.
The reason I asked about price is because there will be roughly $120 cost in materials and I'm trying to figure out how to make it more affordable.
Post by: FordLover on July 13, 2016, 01:33:03 PM
I have built a small working prototype.
When I get an engine in White Trash I'm going to build a full size one.
The reason I asked about price is because there will be roughly $120 cost in materials and I'm trying to figure out how to make it more affordable.
Dang! Now I am curious what this thing is all about with that cost to make it.
Post by: garytcosta on July 13, 2016, 01:59:43 PM
The water control valves, gate or ball, that pretty much everyone uses, are over the counter units, that are not target designed for marine use. Hence the limitations of both. It would be great to have a unit that is designed & built specifically for performance boat applications :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
G
Post by: mash on it on July 13, 2016, 02:09:52 PM
I have built a small working prototype.
When I get an engine in White Trash I'm going to build a full size one.
The reason I asked about price is because there will be roughly $120 cost in materials and I'm trying to figure out how to make it more affordable.
Is the standard SoCalJetBoat offer of fifty bux and some skittles off the table? :sly:
Is it truly needed for a gate-valved, logs-n-snails, worried if it didn't use a quart, big cammed, Mk IV, Gen V, or Gen VI BBC?
Dan'l
Post by: 69kona on July 13, 2016, 02:34:09 PM
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Post by: 69kona on July 13, 2016, 02:37:24 PM
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Post by: GT Jets on July 13, 2016, 02:41:07 PM
Is the standard SoCalJetBoat offer of fifty bux and some skittles off the table? :sly:
Is it truly needed for a gate-valved, logs-n-snails, worried if it didn't use a quart, big cammed, Mk IV, Gen V, or Gen VI BBC?
Dan'l
I look at it this way, what if you could run the engine 150°F to 160°F at 20 psi at all times, and run the oil at 220°F, heating it when it's cold, cooling it when it's hot?
I would think that would be as close as you could ever get to bulletproof. Really no matter what the system.
Might be overstating it a little, but it would sure make building an engine less complicated.
GT
Post by: GT Jets on July 13, 2016, 02:44:26 PM
I'll give u the 120 to build me the full size one ...:
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I was thinking about a pilot program to get a couple of these things out there and testing.
I obviously can't do it for cost, why would anybody?
Not trying to get rich off it either.
Be sweet if it could fund a Comp Jet boat though.
GT
Post by: 76 Bonneville on July 13, 2016, 03:01:57 PM
Would be nice to regulate both oil and water temp.
Seems that everybody makes a big deal about the water pressure.
Maybe I've just been lucky, but I've always run my gate valve wide open and have never had a problem.
Every ski motor for the last 40 years and even our Comp Jet running 6800 rpm's.
Now that I've said that, I'm sure to milkshake my next motor.
Post by: 69kona on July 13, 2016, 03:10:01 PM
I was thinking about a pilot program to get a couple of these things out there and testing.Let me know cost and I'll run your prototype 👍👍👍
I obviously can't do it for cost, why would anybody?
Not trying to get rich off it either.
Be sweet if it could fund a Comp Jet boat though.
GT
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Post by: eliminator18 on July 13, 2016, 06:27:04 PM
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Post by: eliminator18 on July 13, 2016, 06:54:06 PM
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Post by: rivrrts429 on July 13, 2016, 07:33:19 PM
Even if it was $200-$300 and kept me on the water for a weekend rather than on the trailer, I'd say that's money well spent lol
I've had good luck with each of my boats but if you can improve upon the mouse wheel I'm all ears
Post by: el mojado on July 13, 2016, 09:27:24 PM
Post by: GottaJet on July 13, 2016, 10:13:53 PM
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Post by: GT Jets on July 13, 2016, 10:46:10 PM
Is this more an issue for guys with headers? Why do some guys get away with full open yet others are constantly blowing gaskets. Both my boats had a ball valve wide open and never had issues. One had logs, the other (current) has Mercruiser center rise manifolds.
The reason the valve "can be" wide open on logs and risers is because the risers each have numerous ports for water to cool the exhaust. There is a lot of volume. That does not mean they can't work "better".
Also, logs are the only system I can say it's acceptable to run a thermostat kit. Basically because the water is preheated with the exhaust.
The idea I have been basing this on is to get the water warm before it goes into the block, headers or logs. This will allow moving more water in the system and making the temperature within the engine more consistent, you should be able to realize less than a 15°F differential between the entering and leaving water.
This is huge compared to the more than 60°F we normally see.
The pressure being more consistent will keep steam pockets and flash steam at a minimum.
By controlling the pressure before and after the engine, there is really no way you could over pressurize the system, this will also really stabilize water temperatures.
This will be a one time set up and should be set it and forget it.
Big horsepower will be able to be controlled add well because the valve is the same to what I can tell, is about 1,500 hp. After that, there are too many variables and the math gets funny.
Keep in mind the system is so adjustable that virtually any fuel can be used, although I used gasoline for the math.
Another thing to think about, the better the system is set up, the quicker the system warms up and the engine will be much happier.
This allows you to get a little crazier on the tune (read more hp).
I have been stupid busy at work lately, but wanted to let the cat escape to keep me motivated.
There are literally three moving parts. Should be very robust.
Thanks guys.
GT
Post by: JB1314 on July 13, 2016, 10:50:11 PM
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Post by: propless on July 13, 2016, 10:59:57 PM
I have built a small working prototype.
When I get an engine in White Trash I'm going to build a full size one.
The reason I asked about price is because there will be roughly $120 cost in materials and I'm trying to figure out how to make it more affordable.
You could have it made in China. :sly:
Post by: GT Jets on July 13, 2016, 11:13:08 PM
You could have it made in China. :sly:
I can personally guarantee that will never happen. Looking into carbon fiber. Metal is stupid expensive.
It will also technically be union made lol. .
Local 393 Steam fitter/pipe fitter San Jose.
GT
Post by: propless on July 13, 2016, 11:29:39 PM
I can personally guarantee that will never happen. Looking into carbon fiber. Metal is stupid expensive.
It will also technically be union made lol. .
Local 393 Steam fitter/pipe fitter San Jose.
GT
I knew you would love the China thing. :-*
Will be interesting to see how you actually make his work. The idea sure has potential.
Post by: Lopes on July 14, 2016, 04:46:23 AM
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Post by: TJS Nordic on July 14, 2016, 09:00:20 AM
This sounds like a cool set up. However I was thinking of my next jet boat, if and when I ever get one was to build a complete closed cooling system for it and use a heat exhchanger for the raw water coming in to act as the radiator, similar to mercuriser closed set ups. However I am interested in your set up. You might want to design it in kit form where the end user would have to finish "fabricating" the unit. I am up for that as well.
T.J.
Post by: GT Jets on July 14, 2016, 09:15:10 AM
GT-
This sounds like a cool set up. However I was thinking of my next jet boat, if and when I ever get one was to build a complete closed cooling system for it and use a heat exhchanger for the raw water coming in to act as the radiator, similar to mercuriser closed set ups. However I am interested in your set up. You might want to design it in kit form where the end user would have to finish "fabricating" the unit. I am up for that as well.
T.J.
Closed systems are my specialty. I have built and installed dozens of systems from inboards, to jets.
The one thing needing to be installed is a block mounted, automotive style water pump and honestly, if you install that, use an I/O style thermostat kit and you're mostly there.
I will try to get something tangible together in the next month or so full size and try to put a video together to show what it can do.
Thanks for the insight.
If you need a heat exchanger, let me know. I may even have one already built.
I will need to know approximate horsepower and what is needing to be cooled (water, oil, exhaust, v-drive box, etc.).
GT
Post by: Bigblockchevy1691 on July 14, 2016, 04:53:26 PM
Let me know cost and I'll run your prototype 👍👍👍I'm game I trust you GT on this set up. Think that you might have a good thing going on. Always up to new stuff on this issue. In a way tired of seeing peeps bring this subject up all the time.👍👍👍👍
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Post by: 76 Bonneville on July 14, 2016, 07:01:32 PM
They build both block mount and remote water pumps.
They couldn't understand why we didn't have a closed system.
And then you and I went back and forth a couple times about a system.
https://www.meziere.com/ (https://www.meziere.com/)
Post by: Cliffjumper on July 14, 2016, 07:02:49 PM
Post by: GT Jets on July 14, 2016, 07:07:25 PM
I talked to my friends at Meziere Enterprises about this when we had our last Comp Jet motor built.
They build both block mount and remote water pumps.
They couldn't understand why we didn't have a closed system.
And then you and I went back and forth a couple times about a system.
https://www.meziere.com/ (https://www.meziere.com/)
The bullshit reason I always got was weight.
I can do it for less than 50 pounds. Never understood it either Ron.
Post by: 76 Bonneville on July 14, 2016, 07:24:51 PM
Run raw water around it, coolant through it, a thermostat and one of their remote pumps and see what it would do.
Obviously some calculations would be made first.
Post by: GT Jets on July 14, 2016, 07:28:09 PM
They were ready to take an aluminum radiator wrap it in a aluminum case.
Run raw water around it, coolant through it, a thermostat and one of their remote pumps and see what it would do.
Obviously some calculations would be made first.
I build copper shell and tube heat exchangers. Stupid efficient and very small. The heaviest element is the water.
GT
Post by: propless on July 14, 2016, 08:53:18 PM
Post by: GT Jets on July 14, 2016, 09:26:50 PM
So GT, is this really only about another plan for a closed cooling system using a heat exchanger ? Looked back at you second post and saw "heat exchanger". :-\
Not really.
What I did is make a small heat exchanger to control the inlet water temperature. It's about half the size of a full on closed cooling deal.
It gets heated by the leaving water from the engine, I'm thinking of putting the oil cooler in there as well.
Uses a thermostatic element to push a double headed valve against a travel limiter and a spring.
I think it's going to be pretty awesome.
Could be wrong.
GT
Post by: propless on July 14, 2016, 11:04:51 PM
Not really.
What I did is make a small heat exchanger to control the inlet water temperature. It's about half the size of a full on closed cooling deal.
It gets heated by the leaving water from the engine, I'm thinking of putting the oil cooler in there as well.
Uses a thermostatic element to push a double headed valve against a travel limiter and a spring.
I think it's going to be pretty awesome.
Could be wrong.
GT
I don't think your wrong, sounds interesting. And you well know, if I thought it was dumb I would tell you. ;) Glad to see its not a closed system.