SoCal Jet Boats
Tech Talk => Engine Mechanical / Electrical => Topic started by: SoCalPSD on May 28, 2013, 06:47:54 PM
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So not thinking like an idiot I didn't drop the pan to check what it will hold when the motor was out and I don't trust a dipstick that doesn't fit right so here's my dilemma, I only pulled 4 quarts out of the pan, no way that's enough. Even an auto pan takes 5 1/2-6. So I put 5 1/2 in it for the time being. Well I filled it up with vr1-50 and at idle about 1000rpm I'm around 45psi and ill hit 65psi by 2000 and it will hold all the way to 5000, and this is with the motor at temp of 160-170. What do you olds experts say?
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And here's a pic of the pan if it helps
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If its a 455 olds that's a 6, mine is a 455 olds and the oil pan sits almost on the floor and mine is a 10.
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Also where that plug is on the side of the block by oil pan I pulled mine out and put some water drains in so u can drain the water in the winter.
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W.T.F. looks like a stock oil pan 5 quarts should be fine. oil pressure 45 to 65 psi is normal. just remember with a stock olds dont go over 5000 rpm everywhere you go on the lake.
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the only advise i can give is keep your eye on that oil pressure! and i would not let it sit at 5000 for too long. i wont go to 5000 in my motor.
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I'm probably gonna pull a few quarts out of it and add some 30wt to thin it a bit. 45psi at idle just seems high to me
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I'm probably gonna pull a few quarts out of it and add some 30wt to thin it a bit. 45psi at idle just seems high to me
Corey-
Don't do this, just make sure the motor has some heat in it before flogging the crap out if it. That 50wt will thin out soon enough from the heat.
My bbc has 65-70psi @ idle, cold & sits @ ~50psi warm, 65-70 at cruise (delo 400, 15/40)
Daniel
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I ran it on the hose for probably 5 mins every half hour last night 3-4 times to keep it at about 160 for over 2 hours and it still ran high
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The 455 in my Tahiti takes about 5.5 to 6 quarts.
Can let it sit in the lake and idle all day and oil pressure will be around 40-50 psi, but once it has a good long run on it it'll drop down to about 30.
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The 455 in my Tahiti takes about 5.5 to 6 quarts.
Can let it sit in the lake and idle all day and oil pressure will be around 40-50 psi, but once it has a good long run on it it'll drop down to about 30.
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KEEP the 50 wt in her...
Daniel
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Forgot to mention using 10W40 Rotella with a bottle of Lucas zinc additive.
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Nothing wrong with 45 psi cold at all. Dropping to 30 after a run is standard with an Olds too. Much below that, it means slow down cuz you ain't got no oil mods done to yo moto.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using SoCalJetBoats mobile app
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Oil level has nothing to do with pressure.
I agree with the concensus that it is a 5 to 6 quart pan though.
I got a Dooley on my 455, and though it says "10 quart" it holds maybe 8 including a filter change.
Oil level too high, you get the crankshaft splashing around in it like a 2 year old and a mud puddle, even with a windage tray, foaming it all up and CAN lead to excessive crankcase pressure and cavitation of the oil pump, however. Mine would puke oil out the breathers when it was too high (Following the dumbass dipstick..... :banghead: )
I wouldn't sweat your PSI numbers. Sounds normal to me if using a high volume pump. Now if you notice foaming oil on the dipstick, or in the valve covers, well then, you got too much in there. Thing with Olds and Poncho motors is (Buick also, if anyone is running one), without oil mods and oil return mods in particular, you need to run more oil in them than they indicate. Right to the ragged edge on oil levels, especially with a high volume pump (Not a good idea on an Olds).
Ray
PS, also, no such thing as "thinning out" the oil. It won't mix. The pump will be chugging along on the 50 weight then hit some 30 weight and pressure and drag will drop, then back to the 50........In other words, don't do it! All you're gonna do doing that is blow up the oil pump probably. ;)
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Nothing wrong with 45 psi cold at all. Dropping to 30 after a run is standard with an Olds too. Much below that, it means slow down cuz you ain't got no oil mods done to yo moto.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using SoCalJetBoats mobile app
It was not cold though, it was at 160-170, at idle 45 then It was at 60 by 2000 and held 60 psi all the way to 5000
That guy Corey using the SCJB app
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Oil level has nothing to do with pressure.
I agree with the concensus that it is a 5 to 6 quart pan though.
I got a Dooley on my 455, and though it says "10 quart" it holds maybe 8 including a filter change.
Oil level too high, you get the crankshaft splashing around in it like a 2 year old and a mud puddle, even with a windage tray, foaming it all up and CAN lead to excessive crankcase pressure and cavitation of the oil pump, however. Mine would puke oil out the breathers when it was too high (Following the dumbass dipstick..... :banghead: )
I wouldn't sweat your PSI numbers. Sounds normal to me if using a high volume pump. Now if you notice foaming oil on the dipstick, or in the valve covers, well then, you got too much in there. Thing with Olds and Poncho motors is (Buick also, if anyone is running one), without oil mods and oil return mods in particular, you need to run more oil in them than they indicate. Right to the ragged edge on oil levels, especially with a high volume pump (Not a good idea on an Olds).
Ray
Yah im only running 5 1/2 was just gonna top it off at 6. But the oil pump is new and a nothing special stock pump.
Putting the old oil in it, it ran 20-60 cold and hot
Using pensoil 50wt I was stuck at 60 no up or down cold and hot
Using valvoline 30 I was 5psi at idle 40 max cold and didn't wait for it to get hot
Now using valvoline vr1-50 its 50psi cold at idle, 40-45 at temp and it maxes out at 60 around 2k and holds that psi to 5k
That guy Corey using the SCJB app
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Sounds fine to me. 50 wt is gonna carry more static pressure than normal and the thing I noticed running the VR-1 in my old Biesemeyer's 460, it was pretty damn consistent pressure across the RPM range. Hot/cold didn't seem to matter. It had been running 10w30 Castrol before I bought it, but the idle oil pressure worried me (10-15 psi or so hot) so when I changed it, I went "all in" with the VR-1/50. Old, tired motor, figured it could use a little love and tenderness...... :screwy:
Now, that being said, understand that excessive oil pressure is back pressure of oil that is having trouble, too heavy, or can't get into where it's being pumped to go. On a fresh engine, these are normal numbers. As things loosen up and wear in (Bearings, mainly) pressure will subside a tad. You're not to the excessive point.
Your numbers aren't abnormal by any stretch. I'd stop worrying about the number and pick an oil and stick with it knowing what normal pressure range is using it. Changing to different oils constantly is another recipe for disaster. ;)
Ray
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I ran it on the hose for probably 5 mins every half hour last night 3-4 times to keep it at about 160 for over 2 hours and it still ran high
That's water temp, not oil temp...until the side of the pan burns your hand, your oil is still cold
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Oil level has nothing to do with pressure.
I agree with the concensus that it is a 5 to 6 quart pan though.
I got a Dooley on my 455, and though it says "10 quart" it holds maybe 8 including a filter change.
Oil level too high, you get the crankshaft splashing around in it like a 2 year old and a mud puddle, even with a windage tray, foaming it all up and CAN lead to excessive crankcase pressure and cavitation of the oil pump, however. Mine would puke oil out the breathers when it was too high (Following the dumbass dipstick..... :banghead: )
I wouldn't sweat your PSI numbers. Sounds normal to me if using a high volume pump. Now if you notice foaming oil on the dipstick, or in the valve covers, well then, you got too much in there. Thing with Olds and Poncho motors is (Buick also, if anyone is running one), without oil mods and oil return mods in particular, you need to run more oil in them than they indicate. Right to the ragged edge on oil levels, especially with a high volume pump (Not a good idea on an Olds).
Ray
PS, also, no such thing as "thinning out" the oil. It won't mix. The pump will be chugging along on the 50 weight then hit some 30 weight and pressure and drag will drop, then back to the 50........In other words, don't do it! All you're gonna do doing that is blow up the oil pump probably. ;)
X2. I run straight 40wt in mine. 10 qt pan, fill it with 8 also.
When I had 10qts in it, I was about 3/4 throttle for about a minute and
had oil blow out of the breathers on the headers and catch fire. That was fun to clean up. ::)
Keep your eye on the oil pressure and no marathon WOT runs and you should be good.
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That's water temp, not oil temp...until the side of the pan burns your hand, your oil is still cold
This isn't an underwater weed whacker Pat..... It's a real hot rod engine in a boat....... O0
Ray
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This isn't an underwater weed whacker Pat..... It's a real hot rod engine in a boat....... O0
Ray
::)
Dude, Sorry I was not able to chit chat much earlier today, I was balls deep into telling a customer they needed to spend $87,000 in the next couple of weeks and just stepped out to "get a cup of coffee"... :sly:
Put some oil in the fugger and run it. 8)
The way I see it, you can take it apart and do it right or treat it nice and have some fun.
Talked to my pop this afternoon, have you timed it? Does it run pretty good?
When and if you timed it, did you have to give it a bunch of timing for it to run right? (like over 30*BTDC)
Your symptoms are mimicking a set of pumped up lifters that wont bleed... Otherwise you could have a broken oil pick up tube (read leaking) or a bad fit.
Either that or your new oil pump could have a booger in the relief valve and "leaking" with the thinner oil just enough to keep it from making full pressure.
All that being said, I don't think you have an issue.
I would be happy with 15-20 PSI at idle and 50-60 at 3K+
To do it "right", run restrictors in the block oil ports, big pan, proper pick up tube, standard passenger car oil pump, hogged oil ports in the heads, maybe even some external drain holes and call it good... I have even sen roll pins installed into the push rods.
Keep in mind, the oil only heats up when the engine is doing "work", she ain't doing much on the trailer...
Throw in the 50, take it to the water and turn some laps. I would be willing to bet she settles down and does what it is supposed to.
If you have the rear sump passenger car oil pan it is a 5.5 quart oil change, meaning the pan holds about 4.5 qts., the remaining oil is in the filter. Does this POS have the famous oil filter adapter? Things can go wrong there too. Are there a couple of pipe plugs in the adapter? if there are, this is the one for an external oil cooler, you will need to remove the cooler bypass valve for it to work right, otherwise add a piece of hydraulic hose and go around from one port to the other...
So now, you just have to realize that the "SAE 50" rating is for 210*F oil, NOT 130*F, so in essence, everything is cool.... :thumbup:
Your oil pressure cold is going to be a bit high, but with only 5 quarts to play with, the oil will get very warm, potentially very quickly and everything will even out.
Go have some fun for crying out loud, you deserve it... 8) :beer: :thumbup:
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BTW, forgot to add, too much oil in the sump is almost as bad as not enough, the crank windage will whip it up like egg whites and the oil gets hot and thin.... Perfect makings for not only an engine failure, but a nice oily mess that can catch fire when she does decide to say good night...
That actually happened on here, but having a hard time finding it, was that Daniel? (aka willowog)
GT
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BTW, forgot to add, too much oil in the sump is almost as bad as not enough, the crank windage will whip it up like egg whites and the oil gets hot and thin.... Perfect makings for not only an engine failure, but a nice oily mess that can catch fire when she does decide to say good night...
That actually happened on here, but having a hard time finding it, was that Daniel? (aka willowog)
GT
LMAO! Yes it was......I was a participant in that "weiner roast" once B-Rad towed me in............ I got to see it being put out.......
Forgot about that one! LOL!
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..... It's a real hot rod engine in a boat....... O0
Ray
My mistake, I thought we were talking about an olds. :beer:
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My mistake, I thought we were talking about an olds. :beer:
We were but now it's gonna turn into an olds man pissing war ;)
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Olds men always stick together.
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Lol