SoCal Jet Boats
Tech Talk => Engine Mechanical / Electrical => Topic started by: tahiti mike on September 09, 2007, 09:45:04 PM
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how do you find out what year a ford engine is
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I recently worked on a Ford for a friend of mine and this is what I found:
Ford Casting Numbers Explained
Casting numbers tell when a part was ORIGINALLY designed..
Example:
The breakdown of casting number C8OE-9430-D is easy using the charts below:
C = Decade of 1960
8 = Year of the decade (8th year of 1960), 1968
O = line / Manufacture code
E = Engine engineering department
9430 = Basic number for an exhaust manifold
N = Design change
Casting Number Breakdown Chart
Decade of Manufacture:
A = 1940
B = 1950
C = 1960
D = 1970
E = 1980
Year of Decade
The year of the decade is determined by adding a number (0-9) to the letter of the decade. Example: C6 would be 1966, D0 would be 1970, D1 1971
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Damn John good job.
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Hey Rich.
Give a guy a computer screen and an internet connection and he can find ANYTHING. ;D
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I will be up your way next weekend for the Sanger Reunion.
That is how we got in trouble the last time with Mikey ::)
how do you find out what year a ford engine is
What engine are you looking for info on ?
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I WAS TRYING TO MAKE SURE ONE OF THE THREE FORD BLOCKS IVE GOT WAS A 460 CAUSE IVE GOT ONE COMPLETE ONE AND TWO THAT ARE ALL IN A PILE
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I WAS TRYING TO MAKE SURE ONE OF THE THREE FORD BLOCKS IVE GOT WAS A 460 CAUSE IVE GOT ONE COMPLETE ONE AND TWO THAT ARE ALL IN A PILE
blocks are basically the same 429/460 except the boss or the scj witch are 4 bolt mains.
the difference in the 429 is the pistons and crank
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I recently worked on a Ford for a friend of mine and this is what I found:
Ford Casting Numbers Explained
Casting numbers tell when a part was ORIGINALLY designed..
Example:
The breakdown of casting number C8OE-9430-D is easy using the charts below:
C = Decade of 1960
8 = Year of the decade (8th year of 1960), 1968
O = line / Manufacture code
E = Engine engineering department
9430 = Basic number for an exhaust manifold
N = Design change
Casting Number Breakdown Chart
Decade of Manufacture:
A = 1940
B = 1950
C = 1960
D = 1970
E = 1980
Year of Decade
The year of the decade is determined by adding a number (0-9) to the letter of the decade. Example: C6 would be 1966, D0 would be 1970, D1 1971
Great job Heatseaker now, can you decifer this block casting? I'm brain dead today. DIVE-A2B
Thanks,
Greg
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Great job Heatseaker now, can you decifer this block casting? I'm brain dead today. DIVE-A2B
Thanks,
Greg
1971 block
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1971 block
Not necessarily. The "D1VE" prefix castings were used from 1971 through 1978. They were replaced by the D9VE prefixed casting in 1979. To determine the YEAR OF MANUFACTURE, you need the DATE CODE from the block.
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Not necessarily. The "D1VE" prefix castings were used from 1971 through 1978. They were replaced by the D9VE prefixed casting in 1979. To determine the YEAR OF MANUFACTURE, you need the DATE CODE from the block.
Those are the only numbers I can find. the DIVE-A2B :-\
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... "D1VE" ...
... DIVE ...
Which is it? ???
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Which is it? ???
Looks like DIVE, as in scuba, to me. :-\
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgregaw.home.comcast.net%2FBlock_ID_Number.jpg&hash=2f88bfd83387845735143d08e725300cafc13ae3)
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That is a "D1VE. There would not be a letter in the second position.
Take a real good look for ANY other letters/numbers cast into the block. The date code will tell you when the block was cast. It wont be anything like "May 15, 1975", but instead will be a combination that will need to be "de-coded".
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That is a "D1VE. There would not be a letter in the second position.
Take a real good look for ANY other letters/numbers cast into the block. The date code will tell you when the block was cast. It wont be anything like "May 15, 1975", but instead will be a combination that will need to be "de-coded".
Any ideas as to where to look on the 460 Ford?
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i believe its in the lifter valley
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The two blocks I have here are all shiney and no #s anywhere in the lifter valley.
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Any ideas as to where to look on the 460 Ford?
Sorry, can't help with that as I never had reason to know. I see from a different board you have already talked with Paul/LakesOnly. He would be your best bet for further information in this regard.
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The two blocks I have here are all shiney and no #s anywhere in the lifter valley.
hmmmm well unless you are building a matching #'s car, well you know. but know you got me wondering.
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Sorry, can't help with that as I never had reason to know. I see from a different board you have already talked with Paul/LakesOnly. He would be your best bet for further information in this regard.
nuff said but if you need more here you go its in the valley
This info was taken from the old forum. It has been cleaned up and edited. Thanks for the good info.
Ford Production 460 Block Differences
Courtesy of Paul Kane
The available production cast iron block casting numbers are C8VE-A, C9VE-A, D0VE-A, D1VE-("xxx") and D9TE-AB.
I like to refer to all but the D9TE as the "early-style" blocks. The D9TE casting arrived in the 1979 model year and was utilized until the end of 460 production ( to 1996).
For the most part, all blocks and rotating asemblies are interchangable between all blocks except the D9TE. A D9TE rotating assembly will fit into an early-style block, but the opposite is not true.
All 429/460 Fords are internally balanced engines except for the D9TE 460, which is externally balanced.
These block identifying marks (D1VE, etc.) are not actual casting numbers but are engineering revisions that are cast into the block castings themselves. And they are what we enthusiasts refer to when identifying our factory iron, as they give not so much the year that the block was made but rather the revision of the block as specified by said engineering revision. (Actual date code is in the lifter valley.)
Early-Style Blocks: For the most part (and with small exception), the C8VE, C9VE and D1VE blocks are all essentially the same configuration casting with the thinner main webs. The thicker main web block is the D0VE block, which may or may not have 4-bolt main caps on 2,3 & 4. (Very few D1VE blocks may be thick webbed.) All Ford production 385 blocks can be decked as needed, so this is a non-issue detail.
D9TE Blocks: The externally balanced rotating assembly utilizes a crankshaft that has slightly smaller counterweights. This was done to so that the cylinders of the D9TE block could be extended about .1875" deeper towards the crankcase. I believe the cylinders were lengthened in the D9TE block because this block was revised to double as a big equipment truck block, and the dump truck rotating assemblies consisted of a very deep skirt piston that benefitted from the extended cylinder walls for support.
The deeper cylinders of the D9TE blocks are the reason that the early-style, internally balanced rotating assemblies will not fit (internal balance crank throws will not clear D9TE cylinders).
Since most prefer to use internally balanced rotating asembies in the performance applicaton, we usually opt for any block except the D9TE. There are also advantages to specific blocks within the group of early-style blocks, such as the D0VE-A's thick main webs...
Further, the D9TE block was presumed to be a lightweight ("late model") casting and therefore not very strong and also limited in it's overbore capability. But this belief is currently being re-evaluated for a couple of reasons:
1) No-one had yet evaluated D9TE cylinder wall thickness with a sonic checker, and preliminary testing suggests the block may not be so bad afterall.
2) Strokers have become popular and the D9TE's deeper cylinders offer more support for the increased-stroke rotating assemlies.
3) Most all aftermarket stroker kits use a crank with the dimensions of the externally balanced crank and so they fit the D9TE block as well as the early blocks.
Block Summit
Courtesy of Dave McLain
Here is a list of different blocks with weights and cylinder wall thicknesses:
http://misn.com/~frd460/blocksummit.html
If you have trouble finding the page, just use www.mclainsautomotive.com there is a link on the homepage to the block summit page.
Block Weights
Courtesy of David Willingham
D1VE w/ 2 bolt caps, 4.360" bore, unfilled = 217 lbs.
A460 block, 4.625" bore, roller cam brgs, unfilled with caps = 255 lbs
A460 block, 4.634" bore, roller cam brgs, filled to deck with caps = 268 lbs
A460 block, 4.473" bore, roller cam brgs = 265 lbs
A460 block, factory rough undersize bore = 302 lbs
4-bolt D0VE A block = 221 lbs
2-bolt D0VE 4.440 bore = 204 lbs
Screw In Block (Freeze) Plugs
Courtesy of Damon Sea
385 Series engines use 1 1/4 - 11 1/2 Pipe Plug. You can pick these up at any hardware stores.
Ford FE Series Engines use 1 1/2 - 11 1/2 Pipe Plug.
One will need to get the appropriate quality tap for the block and take it SLOW. I suggest mounting the block upside down on a level surface and go SLOW!! using lots of lube. A good tip is to measure the distance from the block to the cylinder wall and then mark or place some tape on the tap so you don't interfere with the cylinder walls. Don't go too deep or your plug will be recessed into the block. AND TAKE IT SLOW!!
IDT Block Info
Courtesy of Jay
Difference in block castings and machining:
Premier vs. Ultra
The Premier and the Ultra use the same block casting and machining. If the main bearing caps were removed from both the Premier and Ultra blocks then would look the same. The main caps on the Premier blocks are of 8620 billet steel. Also, the Premier uses chrome moly studs and bolts. The Ultra uses cast Nodular caps with a standard grade 8 fastener. The cam bearing bores on both the Ultra and Premier are machined to accept a roller cam bearing (2.500" diameter). The as supplied bore diameter is slightly uder 4.500".
Premier vs. Sportsman HP
The block castings are different. The lifter valley is the most noticable change. The Sportsman HP has a production looking lifter valley. The Premier has a "beefer" lifter valley that includes the possibility of moving lifters locations. Also, the Premier has a siamesed water jacket which allows for a maximum bore of 4.700". The Sportsman HP block has a water thru water jacket that allow water to pass between the bores. The maximum bore capability is 4.500". The difference between the water jackets and the lifter valley is the primary difference in weight between the two blocks. Also, the main bearing caps and fasteners that are used in the Ultra block are used in the Sportsman HP. The cam bearing bores on the Sportsman HP is machined to accept the standard Ford cam bearing (2.250"). The as supplied bore diameter is slightly under 4.360".
Total Engine Weight
Courtesy of Phil
I just weighed my 545 today. Set up as follows it weighed 573lbs. 545 with canton main girdle,new style scj aluminum heads,edelbrock alu water pump,victor intake with dominator carb,older starter,gm 1 wire 55amp alternator,stock ford elec dist,stock type valve covers,stock flex plate. I have a rather small homemade alt bracket that doesn't weigh much. Hope this info will help some of the folks.
Last edited by DJOHAGIN on Sat Aug 18, 2007 5:31 pm; edited 2 times in total
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i believe its in the lifter valley
Here's what's in the valley
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgregaw.home.comcast.net%2Fvalley_numbers.jpg&hash=2ce7ebfbd659ce390c9eed5c72849b54d5413034)
I added what's in RED since I didn't know if it would show up or not.
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now i cant be sure but i think its in the round casting above what you have highlighted. and if you read what i posted i think it said they are more of revision #'s as aposed to date codes. but i just dont know
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Here's what's in the valley
I added what's in RED since I didn't know if it would show up or not.
If that "3013" is actually 3D13, then that could make sense and indicate 1973, April 13 as the casting date.
EDIT: I was going to make a joke about "hope it wasn't Friday the 13th" but decided I'd check my calendar.........It WAS Friday the 13th!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >:D
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If that "3013" is actually 3D13, then that could make sense and indicate 1973, April 13 as the casting date.
EDIT: I was going to make a joke about "hope it wasn't Friday the 13th" but decided I'd check my calendar.........It WAS Friday the 13th!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >:D
Well that explains it!! :D