SoCal Jet Boats

Tech Talk => Engine Mechanical / Electrical => Topic started by: Ford545 on May 01, 2009, 01:01:29 PM

Title: Ford 545 build info..
Post by: Ford545 on May 01, 2009, 01:01:29 PM
I am in the process of building a stroked out 460. Scat 4.5" stroke crank, Scat 6.8" rods, and probe psitons. I am starting to look into cams and size. I have no idea where to start on cam size. Any ideas? Whats it take to go full roller? I just bought freshly machined DOVE-C heads if it matters. Thanks!
Title: Re: Ford 545 build info..
Post by: Marcsrollin on May 01, 2009, 01:30:26 PM
Do you have flow numbers on the heads?
Title: Re: Ford 545 build info..
Post by: LakesOnly on May 01, 2009, 01:33:21 PM
Quote from: Ford545 on May 01, 2009, 01:01:29 PM
I am in the process of building a stroked out 460. Scat 4.5" stroke crank, Scat 6.8" rods, and probe pistons. I am starting to look into cams and size. I have no idea where to start on cam size. Any ideas? Whats it take to go full roller? I just bought freshly machined DOVE-C heads if it matters. Thanks!
Which pistons, pump gas or race gas?

What is the application? Jet boat? V-drive? Car??? Peak rpm? Racing or pleasure? Blown, alcohol, or carbs & gas? Tunnel ram? Are the heads ported or as cast? Etc.  Please provide WAY more details.

LO
Title: Re: Ford 545 build info..
Post by: Ford545 on May 01, 2009, 01:47:43 PM
-The pistons were the flat top/pump gas.
-It is going in a 21' jet boat.
-Peak RPM is gonna be 5,500-6,000.
-Carb set-up is gonna be a Weiand tunnel ram with dual 650's.
-I have Fully machined DOVE-C heads that I am going to mildly port and polish to get rid of any casting blemishes.
-MSD distributor, MSD wires, Blaster 2 Coil.
-Gear Drive
-Holley Blue fuel pump
-Main stud girdle



Title: Re: Ford 545 build info..
Post by: beerjet on May 01, 2009, 01:54:23 PM
Not enough carb IMO.
Not a Ford guy either  :-\

-beerjet-
Title: Re: Ford 545 build info..
Post by: pw_Tony on May 01, 2009, 01:55:09 PM
Quote from: Ford545 on May 01, 2009, 01:47:43 PM
-The pistons were the flat top/pump gas.
-It is going in a 21' jet boat.
-Peak RPM is gonna be 5,500-6,000.
-Carb set-up is gonna be a Weiand tunnel ram with dual 650's.
-I have Fully machined DOVE-C heads that I am going to mildly port and polish to get rid of any casting blemishes.
-MSD distributor, MSD wires, Blaster 2 Coil.
-Gear Drive
-Holley Blue fuel pump
-Main stud girdle





You are CHOKING that motor with those heads.... that's ALOT of cubic inch for medium air-flow. But I understand how budget gets in the way of cool stuff.... maybe down the road a head and cam swap and you'll see a big power increase  ;)
Title: Re: Ford 545 build info..
Post by: Marcsrollin on May 01, 2009, 02:11:29 PM
I'll be really curious to see the hp diffrence in our motors. I have the same bottom end but I went with the blue thunder heads with the raised chevy exhaust ports , a monster roller cam and a 1050 dom.
Title: Re: Ford 545 build info..
Post by: LakesOnly on May 01, 2009, 02:32:07 PM
First and foremost, D0VE heads and a 0.030" overbored 545 with flat top pistons will exceed 13:1 compression ratio, and so pump gas is completely out of the question.

Secondly, D0VE heads can make for a really great 5500 rpm jet boat engine, for example, but they must be properly ported in order to get really good results. Conversely, without any porting your engine will wheeze above 4500 rpm.

LO

Title: Re: Ford 545 build info..
Post by: Ford545 on May 01, 2009, 02:40:42 PM
Yeah most of my money got put into the bottom end. I couldn't manage to squeeze in aluminum heads into the budget for specific reasons (WIFE!)... But I plan to save my side money to buy aluminum heads. Anyways... Since it will "exceed 13:1" what octane will it require with the build I have. What would the proper port and polish cost a guy like me and who would you recommend?
Title: Re: Ford 545 build info..
Post by: pw_Tony on May 01, 2009, 03:07:52 PM
Quote from: Ford545 on May 01, 2009, 02:40:42 PM
Yeah most of my money got put into the bottom end. I couldn't manage to squeeze in aluminum heads into the budget for specific reasons (WIFE!)... But I plan to save my side money to buy aluminum heads. Anyways... Since it will "exceed 13:1" what octane will it require with the build I have. What would the proper port and polish cost a guy like me and who would you recommend?
Going to need around 110 octane at that compression... depending on the cam and shape of the chambers.

A "good" port and polish job will be right at around $1000 bucks... Yea you'll find some cheaper here and there, or on ebay and what have you... But quality takes time, and time cost money. Shit when I worked at Mmad a set of Y-block heads would go for $1700 bucks after all porting, valves, guides etc etc  :o
Title: Re: Ford 545 build info..
Post by: Ford545 on May 01, 2009, 03:25:48 PM
DAMN! Thats crazy.. I will take my mild port and polished heads and run em into the ground. I'm not gonna waste that much money on factory heads... I'm sure my motor with dove heads will still out perform ALOT of boats and have alot more power than my last 460... I will get it together, see what i got and go from there. So I never did get an ball park cam size...lol.. Any ideas for my choked down motor cam size?
Title: Re: Ford 545 build info..
Post by: pw_Tony on May 01, 2009, 03:29:16 PM
Quote from: Ford545 on May 01, 2009, 03:25:48 PM
DAMN! Thats crazy.. I will take my mild port and polished heads and run em into the ground. I'm not gonna waste that much money on factory heads... I'm sure my motor with dove heads will still out perform ALOT of boats and have alot more power than my last 460... I will get it together, see what i got and go from there. So I never did get an ball park cam size...lol.. Any ideas for my choked down motor cam size?
Couldn't tell yah on cam... IMHO... I would try and fit the biggest impeller you can in that thing, cam it appropriately... and make a torque beast to pull the impeller... I bet a 545 would "laugh" at just an A impeller and turn too many RPM
Title: Re: Ford 545 build info..
Post by: Ford545 on May 01, 2009, 03:55:53 PM
I will deal with impellers when it is closer to putting the boat in the water. I just wanna get my motor together with a decent valvetrain. Thanks i will take that into consideration.
Title: Re: Ford 545 build info..
Post by: LakesOnly on May 01, 2009, 04:00:27 PM
a little more info, please:

21 day cruiser? Or a tunnel hull hot boat?

How much horsepower are you targeting?

LO
Title: Re: Ford 545 build info..
Post by: Ford545 on May 01, 2009, 04:10:44 PM
-The motor is going a 21' charger which is a semi v.
-I started out wanting 600hp.
Title: Re: Ford 545 build info..
Post by: LakesOnly on May 01, 2009, 04:47:40 PM
And as budget does seem to be an issue for your build, this last option seems to me to be the most cost effective and the most logical.  Why spend an additional $1000 on a rollerized valve train + $1700 minimum on D0VE head mods to work in conjuction with that rollerized valve train?  It all adds up quick.

So....do you want the roller cam (600hp-700hp with pro-ported D0VEs), solid lifter (550-625 hp), or hydraulic flat tappet (475-575 hp) camshaft?

LO

p.s. 22cc dished pistons will drop you to about 11:1. So will D3VE's and your flat tops, but again porting is required of the D3VFes.
Title: Re: Ford 545 build info..
Post by: Ralph Brunt on May 01, 2009, 04:54:02 PM
it amazes me the amount of research that goes into the combo before the money is spent ::) :sly:
Title: Re: Ford 545 build info..
Post by: Ford545 on May 01, 2009, 04:59:54 PM
I would be happy with 550hp. which would be best to obtain the 550. solid or flat tappet... I am still open on my valvetrain, nothing has been purchased for it yet.
Title: Re: Ford 545 build info..
Post by: Ralph Brunt on May 01, 2009, 05:05:42 PM
Quote from: Ford545 on May 01, 2009, 04:59:54 PM
I would be happy with 550hp. which would be best to obtain the 550. solid or flat tappet... I am still open on my valvetrain, nothing has been purchased for it yet.
you can get that with a hyd
Title: Re: Ford 545 build info..
Post by: just squirtin on May 01, 2009, 05:58:27 PM
go to stroker.com or 460 ford .com=will give you all kinds of info-  i would stay away from scat and look into eagle kits=my machine shop guy says that the cranks from scat are made in china and made cheaply-


i too am doing a 545 0n pump gas-10 to 1 max on compression and 100 t0 105 on the heads which will be alum
Title: Re: Ford 545 build info..
Post by: Ralph Brunt on May 01, 2009, 06:04:49 PM
Quote from: just squirtin on May 01, 2009, 05:58:27 PM
go to stroker.com or 460 ford .com=will give you all kinds of info-  i would stay away from scat and look into eagle kits=my machine shop guy says that the cranks from scat are made in china and made cheaply-


i too am doing a 545 0n pump gas-10 to 1 max on compression and 100 t0 105 on the heads which will be alum
where do you think the eagle crank is made ??? :P i have seen both scat and eagle cranks and scat does a far better job of machining.

x2 on the 460 site great info there for sure
Title: Re: Ford 545 build info..
Post by: enginedoctor on May 01, 2009, 07:15:37 PM
Scat cranks are made in CHINA :banghead:
Title: Re: Ford 545 build info..
Post by: Ralph Brunt on May 01, 2009, 07:24:38 PM
Quote from: enginedoctor on May 01, 2009, 07:15:37 PM
Scat cranks are made in CHINA :banghead:
your silly David :-*
Title: Re: Ford 545 build info..
Post by: beerjet on May 01, 2009, 07:30:52 PM
Quote from: enginedoctor on May 01, 2009, 07:15:37 PM
Scat cranks are made in CHINA :banghead:

I've heard the same thing.
Eagles look good but need tons of machining.
Scats look like shit but dont need hardly any machining.
Besides who fukin cares what it looks like  :screwy:

-beerjet-
Title: Re: Ford 545 build info..
Post by: enginedoctor on May 01, 2009, 07:45:45 PM
After my confirmation today with Castillo's and Scat....I was confirmed where they come from....


Now u guys are f/ing with my mind.....

See ya Maniana Omar....10:am ???
Title: Re: Ford 545 build info..
Post by: enginedoctor on May 01, 2009, 07:49:59 PM
I would by no means say SCAT CRANKS are made cheaply.....Just not on size ::)
Title: Re: Ford 545 build info..
Post by: just squirtin on May 02, 2009, 01:05:08 PM
yes eagle is made in china also but by a different mfg and you have greater flexibilately with eagle in machineability scat is the cheaper made crank
Title: Re: Ford 545 build info..
Post by: Ralph Brunt on May 02, 2009, 01:14:48 PM
Quote from: just squirtin on May 02, 2009, 01:05:08 PM
yes eagle is made in china also but by a different mfg
says who ???
Quote from: just squirtin on May 02, 2009, 01:05:08 PM
you have greater flexibilately with eagle in machineability scat is the cheaper made crank
please elaborate,

just picked up a 4.150 scat crank and it had no taper :o and the journals were within a couple of .0001 ;)
the last scat crank i had balanced had no problems either.

at the end of the day i think its all about preference until you step up to a bryant or some other 3k$ crank
Title: Re: Ford 545 build info..
Post by: pw_Tony on May 02, 2009, 01:35:28 PM
I've measured alot of Eagle Cranks and alot of Scat Cranks/Rods. I haven't ran across a rod yet that needed resizing on the crank side... but I've had to hone out for wrist pin size a few times. Eagles many times need to be re-machined. Geoff Mummert used to tell me the Eagle cranks were made of better material and are stronger than a similar priced Scat every day of the week... but then again that's just hearsay, I don't know from experience or testing or anything.
Title: Re: Ford 545 build info..
Post by: just squirtin on May 02, 2009, 02:28:03 PM
that is the same thing i am being told=everyone has an opinion and thats why we all give them so whoever can evaulate all info received and make the best decision and research that you have read and go for what works best for you
Title: Re: Ford 545 build info..
Post by: enginedoctor on May 02, 2009, 03:19:41 PM
The aboved mentioned cranks and rods are great for what they cost. Good bang for the buck.

Who cares if a little extra detail needs to be done  ???

SO LONG AS YOU.............

1. CHECK CLEARANCES and make necc. CORRECTIONS!

Title: Re: Ford 545 build info..
Post by: LakesOnly on May 04, 2009, 01:02:56 PM
Quote from: Ford545 on May 01, 2009, 04:59:54 PM
I would be happy with 550hp. which would be best to obtain the 550. solid or flat tappet... I am still open on my valvetrain, nothing has been purchased for it yet.
Ford545,

I have been away from the computer for the weekend.

Ralph posted a comment on page 1 that notes how important it is to carefully plan a combo before purchasing parts.  Your combo is a bit of an example of how important that is, since you now have 13.1:1 compression ratio when you wanted to run pump gas, etc.  Also, D0VE heads on a big-cube engine, such as your 545, must be ported very well, not just "hogged ou" ports. Bigger is not always better whenm it comes to porting and matching heads to a build.

The two issues I noted above (c/r & headwork) can make camshaft selection tricky. Mostly, without having an idea of how efficient your heads will be in filling those big cylinders it is hard to zero in on a cam.  I could do a better job in working this out if I was porting the heads since I know very well  how our heads perform.....but your portwork??? I haven't a clue, and while throwing up pictures of your port work for me to view may offer some insight, I usually end up telling the enthusiast that unfortunately he ruined the max potential the heads.

If I were porting your heads, I would probably offer a cam something like the Comp Cams XM288H or XM298H grinds, but possibly on a different LSA (depending which cam we are selecting).  Also, you need to understand that your compression ratio will prevent you from ever running pump  gas and that using a HUGE cam to "bleed off cylinder pressure" does NOT correct your engine's lack of being pump gas friendly.

I am currently porting some factory iron heads for other members of this Forum, and I would be happy to offer you a set of ported heads for a very competetive price and even accept your heads as an exchange (as long as you haven't ported them). I am in SoCal regulary and might even deliver.

Call or PM if interested,

Paul
310-435-1900
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