SoCal Jet Boats
Tech Talk => Engine Mechanical / Electrical => Topic started by: socaljst1970 on September 21, 2014, 12:49:16 PM
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Looking to put a gate valve in to control the flow of water to the block. Picture below is where i would like to put it. (bottom is inlet from pump) Currently there is just the distribution block that sends the water to the two water pump mounts on the block. (my exhaust has a separate cooling system from the pump) Anyhow - thinking of something clean and simple that can be adjusted easily. Would love to stay with AN fittings and something small if possible. ideas or links? thanks!
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Since this is usually a set it and forget it piece of hardware, most people go with the gate valve at the pump.
-beerjet-
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Got a pic? Thanks!
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I ran hard line up to just about where the back of the block is fir accessibility, gate valve, garden hose connection, then on to the front of the block.
-beerjet-
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perfect. thanks BJ
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perfect. thanks BJ
Most common was to put the gate valve right at the pump incase a line burst you can shut the valve off and still drive a ways.
-beerjet-
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good idea with rubber lines. i will run mine for convenience up a bit further since have SB lines. what temp do you run with your config at WOT and does that gate setting hold the temp ok at no wake speeds?
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I ran hard line to the garden hose fitting then single rubber line to T right under the front of motor.
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good idea with rubber lines. i will run mine for convenience up a bit further since have SB lines. what temp do you run with your config at WOT and does that gate setting hold the temp ok at no wake speeds?
Through logs, I get 120ish while underway....
I think.
About 160ish in the No Wake.
-beerjet-
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If its a ford an you have logs.... All the way open all the time. Bbc/bbo are both temperamental to that so 140-160 is fine on those an when I had a bbo, I went to 180 to keep heads from cracking around valves but still ended up happening.
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Through logs, I get 120ish while underway....
I think.
About 160ish in the No Wake.
-beerjet-
X2
!25*-130* underway
Maybe 140* in NWZ
At Willow Beach, 10* cooler- 55* river water 8)
Thru logs and snails :thumbup:
160* and above is too hot, IMO (not enough flow...)
Dan'l
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X2
!25*-130* underway
Maybe 140* in NWZ
At Willow Beach, 10* cooler- 55* river water 8)
Thru logs and snails :thumbup:
160* and above is too hot, IMO (not enough flow...)
Dan'l
I've never had a problem so I honestly don't look at the temp too often.
I really just look at the temp gage to make sure us not pegged, but never really noticed the exact temp either way.
-beerjet-
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Mine runs at 155 when running and 175 at idle. It has always ran like that without any problems 13 to 1 800 HP BBC.
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great info - thank you
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Mine runs at 155 when running and 175 at idle. It has always ran like that without any problems 13 to 1 800 HP BBC.
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Why so warm?
Dan'l
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Why so warm?
Dan'l
Stock indamar marine 330hp runs 180-195 all day long :-) thru a thermostat I think lol
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Stock indamar marine 330hp runs 180-195 all day long :-) thru a thermostat I think lol
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Again, Why so warm?
My Indmar 454, although not stock any more, runs 125*-130* all the time. (logs and snails)
And only in a really long 'no wake zone', (Katherines, etc,) does it climb past 130*
454 with headers, 120*, 140* in NWZ (Glenco, 19')
SBC with headers, 120*, 140* in NWZ (Saguaro 19')
(all gate valved cooling systems...from home depot speed and marine :thumbup:)
Dan'l
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I just last week removed all my freeze plugs and cleaned out a lot of sand. Mine is now running about 180 in the nwz and 150-160 hauling ass. Logs snails indmar 454 all stock.
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Again, Why so warm?
My Indmar 454, although not stock any more, runs 125*-130* all the time. (logs and snails)
And only in a really long 'no wake zone', (Katherines, etc,) does it climb past 130*
454 with headers, 120*, 140* in NWZ (Glenco, 19')
SBC with headers, 120*, 140* in NWZ (Saguaro 19')
(all gate valved cooling systems...from home depot speed and marine :thumbup:)
Dan'l
Dont know Daniel. Its always ran like that. Maybe because the way its plumbed? I dont know. I haven't done anything but a carb rebuild and put gas in it since mothers day. The daytona didnt have a gauge in it so I dont know about that one.
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I have no problem with the temp. A lot of guys like to run cold not sure why. I have never thought 160 was to hot. I guess when someone proves 160 is bad for your motor I will look into it.
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I have no problem with the temp. A lot of guys like to run cold not sure why. I have never thought 160 was to hot. I guess when someone proves 160 is bad for your motor I will look into it.
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Lets look at a CAR radiator-
A good radiator will pull 50* out of the water temp-
Therefore, a car running at 190* (output out of the t-stat), will cool to ~140*, (going in to water pump), at best.
In a single pass of through the engine it gains about 50* (Transfers this much heat)
In an open cooling system, with the lake temp at 70*, and add (transfer) 50* worth of [engine] heat, the output would be at 120*
Higher lake temps = higher water temps.
While running at 160* to 180* (output temp), there is 90* to 110* of heat transfer, and a good chance of steam pockets to form.
Also at 160*+, all the minerals and salts from the raw lake water form a 'crusty' mineral deposit in the water jackets. Thicker layer, less cooling ability. Salt water is even worse.
190*, 195, 203* etc in todays modern fuel injected cars is not for horsepower output, but rather emission controls.
Running cooler water temps will *help* keep the oil temps cooler. Oil pan volume helps too.
Dyno tests have proven a cooler water temp makes more horsepower. Don't confuse this with cold OIL temps. My oil runs @ 210-220*
My $.02
Dan'l
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Dan'l mash on it,
Great info there. Where did you learn "at 160*+, all the minerals and salts from the raw lake water form a 'crusty' mineral deposit in the water jackets"?
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Dan'l mash on it,
Great info there. Where did you learn "at 160*+, all the minerals and salts from the raw lake water form a 'crusty' mineral deposit in the water jackets"?
I've boiled eggs, more than once. lol.
Dan'l
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Dan'l mash on it,
Great info there. Where did you learn "at 160*+, all the minerals and salts from the raw lake water form a 'crusty' mineral deposit in the water jackets"?
It's called a book....... Lol
Research "aqueous solubility".
Keep the pressure (referred to in "atmospheres") in mind while you read.
It's not hocus pocus. It's based on scientific fact and the sole reason most marine manufactures design their engines around with a 140° our 160°F thermostats.
GT
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That’s pretty good.
So with a [jet boat open fresh water cooled type system, the only pump is the jet] steam pockets can form at lower temperatures (160F) than say a closed cooling system because the water pressure is lower (at idle/low rpms) thus allowing the hotter areas of the [just the head?] to boil the cooling water which will drop out minerals (or worse). Also, there is less water flow which gives a decrease in cooling water distribution and more and/or hotter hot spots. Is all that right?
How do you know 160F is the temp? And at what pressure is that at? Any other factors that could bump that temperature up or down, aluminum vs. steel heads?
How do you know most marine manufacturers (I assume jet boat open cooling system, only pump is jet) design their engines around a 140-160F thermostats?
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This is what I made using Home Depot parts!
120° idle
Any thoughts on the valve?
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Made the hose with it's own valve just for driveway tuning/testing.
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That’s pretty good.
So with a [jet boat open fresh water cooled type system, the only pump is the jet] steam pockets can form at lower temperatures (160F) than say a closed cooling system because the water pressure is lower (at idle/low rpms) thus allowing the hotter areas of the [just the head?] to boil the cooling water which will drop out minerals (or worse). Also, there is less water flow which gives a decrease in cooling water distribution and more and/or hotter hot spots. Is all that right?
How do you know 160F is the temp? And at what pressure is that at? Any other factors that could bump that temperature up or down, aluminum vs. steel heads?
How do you know most marine manufacturers (I assume jet boat open cooling system, only pump is jet) design their engines around a 140-160F thermostats?
First, the cooling requirements are almost non existent on an open cooling system at idle, there is hardly ever a case where water flow is inadequate at idle. At the same time, the horrible (for anything other than what we do) flow characteristics of an oversized gate valve flows better at low water pressure than it does at high water pressure, it's really strange how well a gate valve works.
Back to why the 160°F. Almost all manufactures for marine equipment stay well below the 150-160°F range (I can say this with 100% certainty).
There are more reasons than this for the 160 and below.
The water entering the engine is still cold as a solid bronze athletic cup. Do you really want a 100+ degree rise from cylinder 1 to cylinder 8? I don't.
On a typical jet, open cooling system, the water enters the engine at the front two cylinders.... It exits out the same two cylinders on the head. Think about that for a moment........
The only way I would ever recommend using a thermostat would be with a block mounted automotive style water pump and an I/O type thermostat housing, or closed cooling with a heat exchanger.
This makes the water temperature within the block and heads completely homogeneous. Meaning constant.
The pressure at low horsepower is less relevant that when wide open. So I think a warm idle temperature carries with it little risk.
You can challenge me all you want on the 160°F thing, I was a Mercury, Yamaha, Volvo, Caterpillar, OMC AND Marine Power master mechanic for years.
JMHO
GT
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