SoCal Jet Boats
Tech Talk => Engine Mechanical / Electrical => Topic started by: The Chaz on June 05, 2008, 12:36:29 PM
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Do I HAVE to buy chrome moly type push rods if I am using guide plates? Or can I just use the standard correct (cheaper) push rods?
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you need hardend pushrods, stock wont work
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You will more than likely need different length than stock .Cam makes difference valve job long valves, Roller rockers , block decked, heads cut, all help to change push rod length.
you need to have your push rods index for the proper length or have a motor that wont put out its best. might even put a valve in to a piston. was cam deg to? how did you check piston to valve clearance ?
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You will more than likely need different length than stock .Cam makes difference valve job long valves, Roller rockers , block decked, heads cut, all help to change push rod length.
you need to have your push rods index for the proper length or have a motor that wont put out its best. might even put a valve in to a piston. was cam deg to? how did you check piston to valve clearance ?
Elwood............Your gonna scare the guy ;D
2sav >:D
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Do it rite the first time and you wont have to do it, after the big noise . Cheaper & Better, short or long push rods cause chipped valve stems and broken rollers. Valves hit piston then what.
I dont want to scare any one just try to help them
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Do it rite the first time and you wont have to do it, after the big noise . Cheaper & Better, short or long push rods cause chipped valve stems and broken rollers. Valves hit piston then what.
I dont want to scare any one just try to help them
Just givin you crap, there big guy ;D
And why dont you answer your phone :screwy:
2sav
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I didnt here it ring I call you and no one home I think i got you some glass
work on a boat i told him you glass work was top dog did he call you?
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Cam was custom ground by clay smith cams for my application, so clearance should not be a problem (with correct length pushrods) He told me my stock length should be correct, but I am not sure he remembered that I was changing to roller rockers. I changed from non adjustable rockers to 7/16 studs and 3/8 guide plates. Scorpion roller rockers will be here tomorrow. I am 99% sure there has been no block or head decking done and the stock pushrods seemed to work for the old cam. New cam is solid lifter so I hope all the reading I did to determine correct push rod length helps. I borrowed a pushrod length checker from Marcsrollin and will order the hardened pushrods tomorrow. Crane cams told me that a wall thickness of .060 would be sufficient for my application. Any more advise is greatly appreciated. I need to get this right to get to Parker with a running boat O0
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Cam was custom ground by clay smith cams for my application, so clearance should not be a problem (with correct length pushrods) He told me my stock length should be correct, but I am not sure he remembered that I was changing to roller rockers. I changed from non adjustable rockers to 7/16 studs and 3/8 guide plates. Scorpion roller rockers will be here tomorrow. I am 99% sure there has been no block or head decking done and the stock pushrods seemed to work for the old cam. New cam is solid lifter so I hope all the reading I did to determine correct push rod length helps. I borrowed a pushrod length checker from Marcsrollin and will order the hardened pushrods tomorrow. Crane cams told me that a wall thickness of .060 would be sufficient for my application. Any more advise is greatly appreciated. I need to get this right to get to Parker with a running boat O0
www.pushrods.net
Smith Brothers makes the best.
The old cam may or may not have the same base circle as the new one, if that changes the pushrods will either be too short or too long. Typically solid and hyd cams do NOT take the same length, as the solid lifters are shorter from the pushrod perspective.
I am running .125 wall 3/8ths pushrods in mine - any flex causes the valve to not lift as high and can cause breakage and instability in the valvetrain if it gets severe enough. On an engine that is constantly seeing high(er) RPM's, pushrods is probably not the area to skimp.
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Call terry manton ph 951-245-6565 manton push rods been useing them for 27 years read on web a bout him he is in lake Elisnore Ca 92530 his dad is Noel manton who makes the top fuel rocker arms and springs and he is close to you and always buy one extra if you bend one ore what ever replace and keep going keep in boat at all times it is the best ins you have. and you can get them there at his shop. :)
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I tell clients all the time: "Pay now or pay later, but it will cost you twice as much to pay later"
Do it right in the begining or it will cost you more later!
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I should also add - the guide plates, being hardened, will cut through standard pushrods in no time flat.
Smith Brothers and Manton are both good.
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OK, I got a length... do I have to use a mic to measure it or is a tape measure and my eyeball going to be close enough. from the tape measure I got 8 11/16 or 8.6875
Now I can buy a set at 8.680 http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=CCA%2D7951%2D16&autoview=sku (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=CCA%2D7951%2D16&autoview=sku) would these work?
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?how did you get the measurement did you have light weight springs on head and did you check both valves ex and int did you turn motor over by hand and check the run out on steam does it make roller run in center of valve did you mark valve stem with lip stick or felt tip pin to see wear roller runs at how much off center are you if any How did you check it Explain were was roller at full lift at center or? It takes me at least half hour to set up and check did you have ind mounted to head to check for full lift. did you look at head or put streight edge down top of valve stems to see if all are set same height ?
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I'll call crower on monday and put a set on will call for you so you can just pick them up and pay cost on em. Plus you will pay less with no middle man.
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Wow :o
I did not change springs, but the cam manufactuor told me it would be fine with the ones he supplied me for the cam. I did check both int and ex for #1 cylinder. Initally I turned the motor over by hand to get first 5-6 readings. Then I used the starter with no plugs and only the adjustable pushrod on one valve. Let it cycle 4 times between checks on starter. I used a sharpie to check the roller run and it is maybe 1/16" intake side of center of valve. This was the shortest run I could make. Full and center lift readings were not taken, but movement across valve is 1/ 16" or less (tomorrow I will post a picture of the valve stem marks) I have the intake off so I eyeballed full lift, and I did not check valves for equal heights, but the machine shop who redid them and clay smith cams looked at them and did not indicate that they were not close to even, I will however check them. I spent a good 2 hours checking and re checking between the valves at 1/2 turns on the adjustable rod.
My only concern is that I did the measurements at 0 lash and cam card says In./Ex. Valve adj. should be .021
I have until Monday morning to order something so let me know what you guys, (and gals) think ;D
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One last thing did you use the Clay Smith solid lifter cam , did you set valve lash and check length and with out lash set ? and was ex and int same? did you use lash caps on valves ? ho did heads and were heads matched the same stem height both heads new valves used or what were valve tips cut checked when you set straight edge on retainers and
valve tips were they flat and same from one end to other, hard to do on valve canted head (do valves have had tips for your roller rockers). and do you have long tip valves in heads..
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Almost all of the valves were replaced and "look" to stick up the same amount above the retainers. I do not know what a lash cap is, but I got the 10 degree retainers, spring caps, and springs from Clay Smith. should I add the lash to my reading for needed pushrod length making it approx. 8.7085"????
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The new Rockers
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg515.imageshack.us%2Fimg515%2F2844%2Frandom007ew1.jpg&hash=ece589b00b30784c01c128eb07b28573113474eb)
Same ratio as stock.
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look here
http://lunatipower.com/Tech/Valvetrain/HowToVerifyValvetrainGeometry.aspx (http://lunatipower.com/Tech/Valvetrain/HowToVerifyValvetrainGeometry.aspx)
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looks like I did it right, but crane cam tech told me the line should be just to the intake side of center, not exactly in the center :banghead:
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Here is what I decided to use after reading that post. It looks a little shorter of a run and is closer to center 8.750
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg175.imageshack.us%2Fimg175%2F4889%2Fvalvegeometry008cp9.jpg&hash=1e4aa83c32ce42c1d48ae903862a2003d79a6d9f)
This is what I was though to use last night. 8.6875
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg175.imageshack.us%2Fimg175%2F8084%2Fvalvegeometry001ct0.jpg&hash=1ba3b23733d3f88e7199fcd238c97305483251a1)
Maybe these?
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=CRN%2D95811%2D16&autoview=sku (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=CRN%2D95811%2D16&autoview=sku)
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I can probably get the crower ones cheaper at cost!
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Awesome! I'll call you Monday morning to get a quote and ETA. I'll go pick them up down south if it saves me a day...
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i would not be afraid to run with either one of those, mine is worse then that :o
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Thanks to Marc for the hook up on the push rods. They look tough >:D Got everything reinstalled and ready for tomorrows cam break in ;D
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg161.imageshack.us%2Fimg161%2F2618%2Frandom002vg6.jpg&hash=f37af96be7ae58205811f9dbaf9ba84f17a3882f)