SoCal Jet Boats

Tech Talk => Engine Mechanical / Electrical => Topic started by: AQUAHOLIC on May 17, 2009, 07:15:19 PM

Title: hallet problems (updated with vid and pics)
Post by: AQUAHOLIC on May 17, 2009, 07:15:19 PM: so i took the hallet out this weekend. it has a brand new 383 in it and i just had the marine shop completely go thru the outdrive and replace just about everything.

now it runs fine everything is smooth as butter but when i get into the throttle it starts backfiring thru the carb. i am guessing it is a fuel issue. does anyone else have any input on this. i already changed the fuel filter and it has a manual fuel pump
Title: Re: hallet problems
Post by: HDriderTH on May 17, 2009, 07:16:59 PM: Pour the coal to it, go up about four jet sizes....read your plugs
Title: Re: hallet problems
Post by: GT Jets on May 17, 2009, 07:28:59 PM: What kind of a drive?, could be a shift interupter adjustment problem, otherwise sounds like fuel (or lack thereof) thing.

Does it have a lanyard/kill switch? could be an ignition cutting in/out..

Hell I dunno, it's broke. ;D

GT
Title: Re: hallet problems
Post by: povertyjet on May 17, 2009, 07:43:11 PM: Quote from: HDriderTH on May 17, 2009, 07:16:59 PM
Pour the coal to it, go up about four jet sizes....read your plugs

X2---> sounds lean...check accelerator pump(s), float bowl levels and timing...

p-jet
Title: Re: hallet problems
Post by: crewchief22 on May 17, 2009, 08:06:24 PM: How much throttle? Double check the timing also.
Title: Re: hallet problems
Post by: beerjet on May 17, 2009, 08:08:29 PM: What about timing ?

-beerjet-
Title: Re: hallet problems
Post by: BigGuy on May 18, 2009, 10:22:56 AM: hey this is aquaholic

We just had the timing set. i have not checked it myself yet. I had the interupter cable replaced and adjusted when it was in the shop. the outdrive is an alpha 1.

there was no problem with it before but it sure seems like fuel. could a vavle be stuck or anything?

i tried the fuel filter there was gas there. I was thinking of running it with a fuel pressure guage to see if the pressure is dropping off or not. i dont have time to work on it until tomorrow. i will let you guys know more tomorrow. i am just trying to brainstorm so that i dont overlook anything tomorrow.
Title: Re: hallet problems
Post by: SLCKREG on May 18, 2009, 10:25:28 AM: May have the (a) valve(s) a little too tight??? Hopefully not a burnt or bent valve.
Title: Re: hallet problems
Post by: HDriderTH on May 18, 2009, 12:12:10 PM: Quote from: HDriderTH on May 17, 2009, 07:16:59 PM
Pour the coal to it, go up about four jet sizes....read your plugs

::)
Title: Re: hallet problems
Post by: AQUAHOLIC on May 18, 2009, 12:30:13 PM: this is also the boat that we did the cam break in without knowing that the water pump was not working the temp guage read fine but the motor got real hot. I am not sure if this has anything to do with it but i hope not.

I am hoping it is not a valve problem. i dont want to take the motor out again.
Title: Re: hallet problems
Post by: maddogg20 on May 18, 2009, 01:52:34 PM: this may sound stupid but check the distributor hold down clamp. When we started and broke my engine in the other day it idled great and when you gave it gas it would shoot a big ass fire ball thru the carb and die. What was happening is that we would adjust the dizzy and leave it loose and when i would give it gas the dizzy would twist and change the timing. so once we tightened it down problem solved.
Title: Re: hallet problems
Post by: alamojimmy on May 18, 2009, 01:58:46 PM: X2>Distributor bolt/screw

It seems like it always something stupid and simple after an in-depth repair/rework.
Title: Re: hallet problems
Post by: crewchief22 on May 18, 2009, 10:20:05 PM: If this engine has been hot, do a compression test &/or a cylinder leak down test. You may have collapsed the rings due to the heat.
Title: Re: hallet problems
Post by: AQUAHOLIC on May 19, 2009, 07:04:58 AM: it has been hot. when we did the cam break in we did not know the water was not working until the bastard started smoking real bad
Title: Re: hallet problems
Post by: riversled on May 19, 2009, 07:26:48 AM: did you put a bigger cam in? if so the intake might be wrong for the rpm's
Title: Re: hallet problems
Post by: HDriderTH on May 19, 2009, 09:53:03 AM: What do the plugs look like? A lean motor will run hot dontcha know. Where did you get the carb, what jets are in it? Vacume leak?
Title: Re: hallet problems
Post by: AQUAHOLIC on May 19, 2009, 10:32:35 AM: quadra jet carb i believe. eddlebrok rpm intake and torker heads. it should all work fine together.

i have not had time to pull the plugs i will be doing that after work today. i also put it on a charger all night because the batteries were dead when i took it out i had to get a jump when i left the dock. I was thinking that maybe it could be a low voltage problem. i will take pics of each plug today plus check firiing order and timing.

i am going to start this at around 4:30 so look for a updated post from me at around 6 or so. i hope it is nothing big. we have rebuilt everything and this boat needs to be running soon. i kind of put my name on it since i am helping a friend. he has paid for everything i am just doing the work it is worrying me and i dont need the stress....lol

thanks for the suggestions guys i will be checking all this stuff after work today
Title: Re: hallet problems
Post by: HDriderTH on May 19, 2009, 10:57:54 AM: I went out on a boat last weekend with a QJ on it. It would run good and then start poping thru the carb and die. New pumpand inline filter. It had a filter in the carb right where the fuel line screws in, took it out and it was all good
Title: Re: hallet problems
Post by: AQUAHOLIC on May 19, 2009, 06:08:28 PM: ok i checked firing order and plugs. # 6 plug looks like it was not even doing anything. i also removed that carb fuel filter. no change here are the pics and the video.

the video is hard to hear becaus once i started the motor you can hear the camera vibrating off the hull of the boat
video of the motor running.
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi15.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa399%2Fvr4tony%2Fth_davesboatproblem011.jpg&hash=d8655597b414ebc6b6a44ff99e067c0d26ec8eaa) (http://s15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/vr4tony/?action=view&current=davesboatproblem011.flv)

(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi15.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa399%2Fvr4tony%2Fdavesboatproblem001.jpg&hash=391a8f738143c83fdb98ce5ea2d49b25ed45f3da)

(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi15.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa399%2Fvr4tony%2Fdavesboatproblem002.jpg&hash=d8dde244e02a380881340602e646254f39d886ec)

(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi15.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa399%2Fvr4tony%2Fdavesboatproblem003.jpg&hash=a260d23a635d334e1542eae1d430f02a5e2fa303)

(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi15.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa399%2Fvr4tony%2Fdavesboatproblem004.jpg&hash=41ccd2b335e5d60e6898bfe7e635ad77bc900d2c)

(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi15.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa399%2Fvr4tony%2Fdavesboatproblem005.jpg&hash=1ca0b6f1e9000a5487e4cf425f4c0601fd6decb6)

(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi15.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa399%2Fvr4tony%2Fdavesboatproblem006.jpg&hash=4dfaca13c55b6c74da8d7c2f15914caec0989d2a)

(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi15.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa399%2Fvr4tony%2Fdavesboatproblem007.jpg&hash=db4477df7238bdfc37f935f54a1415a4224878fe)

(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi15.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa399%2Fvr4tony%2Fdavesboatproblem008.jpg&hash=e57ecc5e1b806cf24924a305c11d84e8cfffebe0)
This is the position of the rotor at TDC
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi15.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa399%2Fvr4tony%2Fdavesboatproblem009.jpg&hash=d52965c6e5a49c3482e40f5da6c4dd004afd71ba)
And i am pointing to number one wire. Firing order is correct from here
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi15.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa399%2Fvr4tony%2Fdavesboatproblem010.jpg&hash=4e9fd7aebd57bdb2ab6084d4e40871bc1abe5b6a)

well guys what do you think
Title: Re: hallet problems (updated with vid and pics)
Post by: Beaveretriever on May 19, 2009, 06:21:19 PM: this might be a silly question but did you check the valves? it almost sounds like you have loose valves or one of the lifters isnt pumped up. if thats the case it would make the motor run on 7 cylinders. but hey im a volkswagen guy and 8 cylinders is alot to keep track of.

The Beav
Title: Re: hallet problems (updated with vid and pics)
Post by: Beaveretriever on May 19, 2009, 06:23:15 PM: i might even change those funky ass plugs just my .02

The Beav
Title: Re: hallet problems (updated with vid and pics)
Post by: AQUAHOLIC on May 19, 2009, 06:24:51 PM: i am willing to try. they are what was in there. what plug and gap do you recomend for a slightly modded 383
Title: Re: hallet problems (updated with vid and pics)
Post by: Beaveretriever on May 19, 2009, 06:45:24 PM: like i said im not a v-8 guy but i know in our big horsepower volkswagen motors, with a good ignition we run about .040-.035 if its a mild ignition i would run them about .040 or so. any ignition should be able to jump .040 if its not then you might have a bad plug wire or even a bad coil. if the motor under load pops and cracks like it wants to quit running it could also be a bad coil. i know that on our race cars we run two for that very reason, i have bought brand new ones that are bad.

The Beav
Title: Re: hallet problems (updated with vid and pics)
Post by: 429heads on May 19, 2009, 06:46:26 PM: Was this the motor that you had built and the builder was to do the cam break in for you?
Did he break it in or not, Did you use light weight springs for cam break in and did you
replace them after cam break in with right spring?. I would check cam real close . Thanks to Ralph Brunt we send are cams out to cam research to get broken in. Cam is ready to race when you get it back cost with shipping $80 . I don't have to change springs don't have to worry about losing A $3000.00 up lower end set valves and go race and not
worry about the cam. Heads are set with SBC band seals on valve stem tight against the
top of the guide at second or third race we pull valve springs and can measure the distance form guide top too bottom of seal tells me if cam is worn the same rockers are
given full lift and we use 1.5 & 1.6 rockers and some times 4-7 cam. AND again thanks to
RALPH for info on here on cam break in by Cam RESEARCH they use a CAM KING to break in your cam I think you have valve trouble
and shit can the plugs I took you pictures to photoshop and changed them plug 7 has some kind of deposite on it beads #3 to #2
same could Be the picture to. What tem does ex ports header run at have you tem shot them cold cylinder will tell a lot most of ares run
350 450 temp on port each port.
Title: Re: hallet problems (updated with vid and pics)
Post by: Beaveretriever on May 19, 2009, 06:50:07 PM: one more thing now that im thinking about it a little more, go to pep boys or some automotive store and pick up some Marvels mystery oil, that shit there is great. my late grandfather had a buick fifth ave that had a stuck lifter and it used to click like that, we put some of that marvels mystery oil and in about 15 mins the click went away. just something else to try

The Beav
Title: Re: hallet problems (updated with vid and pics)
Post by: AQUAHOLIC on May 19, 2009, 07:00:13 PM: yes the builder came to my place to do the cam break in. he said he left them a 1/4 turn loose for break in or something. The motor did not do this studder problem when we did the break in or the first time we had it on the water. it just started after i got it back from the boat shop who did the outdrive and rigging. and he aligned the motor to the outdrive so that everything was lined up perfect. all the linkages and shit shift smooth as butter. the boat runs great starts right up. idles just fine. just does not getting into higher rpms..

the engine builder is coming over on thursday to give it a once over. he did the motor in my boat and the thing runs great. i am sure it is just something stupid that we are over looking but everything i check seems to be fine.
Title: Re: hallet problems (updated with vid and pics)
Post by: electrowoman on May 19, 2009, 07:13:07 PM: Are you sure the plug wires are on right? Sounds like 2 or 3 missing to me ::)
Title: Re: hallet problems (updated with vid and pics)
Post by: maddogg20 on May 19, 2009, 08:21:10 PM: if it did get as hot as you said, it may have burned the oil off the rings. lol I had that problem when I was trying to fire my engine for the first time, but the carb was leaking gas and washed the oil off the rings. Get some marvel mystery oil and a lil squirter oil can and squirt 2 pumps into each hole with the plugs out and rotate the engine over 3 or 4 times with the ignition disabled and put some new plugs in and see how she runs. The stuff works wonders.

Andy
Title: Re: hallet problems (updated with vid and pics)
Post by: AQUAHOLIC on May 19, 2009, 08:35:49 PM: iam willing to give it a try. but i ran it for about 10 mins on the water at about 3k rpm it runs great then. you just cant give it any throttle. i would imagine the oil would have made its way to the rings during that run at least.

this has got me stumped. I am prety sure the wires are on right i checked them twice today.

somethgn is not right though. i know that for a fact. i cant seem to figure this one out but i am not a big tuner guy i just install my shit and it usually works
Title: Re: hallet problems (updated with vid and pics)
Post by: GT Jets on May 19, 2009, 10:03:53 PM: A coil swap is due.

There is a shift interupter switch at the lower shift cable, disconnect the wire going to it an try again, that will eliminate some stuff.

Also, in looking at your rotor, check to make sure the carbon buttom is still in the coil contact in the cap, there are some arc marks in there that dont look right to me.

One more "stupid thing" to try, hold the secondary butterflies closed while trying to rev it up (simulating a 2 barrel). You can also push down the plunger of the accellerator pump to see if she is working...

GT
Title: Re: hallet problems (updated with vid and pics)
Post by: GT Jets on May 19, 2009, 10:06:32 PM: Actually never mind, I know what it is......

Pull the exhaust manifolds and look into the Y pipe, you burned off the flappers and they are blocking the exhaust. Seen it a hundred times, if you pull the entire manifold you will not need to buy any gaskets....Everything else is a hose with a clamp...

You can take this one to Vegas... >:D

GT
Title: Re: hallet problems (updated with vid and pics)
Post by: HDriderTH on May 19, 2009, 10:07:38 PM: I'd check the valves and wire on number six, looks like it aint runnin. See if vales are loose, note how many threads showing compared to the others. Look for broken rocker, spring
Title: Re: hallet problems (updated with vid and pics)
Post by: AQUAHOLIC on May 20, 2009, 07:08:42 AM: we did burn the flappers off. but while the boat was at the marine place i had them replace. could they just be stuck closed?

and yes the one plug does not look to be fireing at all. not sure what is up with that.

on the other hand the flapper thing makes sence. i will check that crap when i get home
Title: Re: hallet problems (updated with vid and pics)
Post by: GT Jets on May 20, 2009, 07:13:17 AM: Quote from: AQUAHOLIC on May 20, 2009, 07:08:42 AM
we did burn the flappers off. but while the boat was at the marine place i had them replace. could they just be stuck closed?

and yes the one plug does not look to be fireing at all. not sure what is up with that.

on the other hand the flapper thing makes sence. i will check that crap when i get home

Hmmmm, Did they get the old flappers out?, they are made of rubber laminated steel and don't just "disapear". Just a thought. Since they replaced the flapper I will assume all is good.

GT
Title: Re: hallet problems (updated with vid and pics)
Post by: AQUAHOLIC on May 20, 2009, 08:13:35 AM: i am going to call the guy today at around 9 to see if he has any input on the situation.

this thing is driving me nuts