Im assuming you guys are talking about the distributor being at the wrong end?

And we're all just having fun about whose is better, because everyone knows that (insert favorite mfg.) is the best 

BOTTOM LINE....THEY ALL BREAK...

X2. And they can all be built to haul the mail. I've learned THAT much. I wouldn't change out to a Chevy if everything is already there for the Ford. Unless you work for GM, that could be an issue.

There's plenty of support, parts and upgrades to be had for the 460, and the 455, why add to the costs with a new bellhousing, rail kits, motor mounts, driveline, let alone all the wiring will need changing because of the ignition location (See, I didn't mention anyones end on that) Unless you're building a racer? Even at that all those engines would work fine.

I think I'm repeating myself, but my uncle is a devout Chebbie guy, and my first instinct was to change everything out to the 454. He stopped me, and I'm glad I did. My boat runs like a female ape at the zoo on Viagra day, and with the new tunnel, I'm probably gonna need some serious Jet work done to keep up with it. If I don't kill it first. Tom might have to hide this thing in the back of his shop for awhile.

MIght be interesting to see a Mopar in the mix, I'm a HUGE fan. Not the Hemi, been overdone. Would be nice to see a well built 340 or 440 shaft head tearing it up! Now that I say that, how about a 426 Stage III MAx wedge, how cool would that be?

Dunno about the Pontiac though. Great engines, and I saw a complete set of mounts for one on Ebay awhile back. Built a 67 GTO and 69 Firebird 400 Convertible back in High school, ( both long gone) and Hi-po parts were scarce. Save for the oiling probelms we would have at around or above 5k rpm, they ran very strong (The GTO was built with a 428 SD block and 69 Ram Air IV heads). There was a place back in those days, can't remember their name though, that specialized in Pontiac performance stuff.  I wanna say they were in Chatsworth Cali, but that's been 20 years ago or more.

Bottom line, stick with whats in it until it breaks, and breaks beyond all repair. Always easier to rebuild/upgrade what you got than changing everything all out.

Just my .02

Ray

I say Pontiac cuz I just happen to have one AND this guy is 10 minutes away . . .
Check out all of his site , you WILL be surprised!

http://www.pontiacpower.com/LatestDyno.htm

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/672hp_pontiac_350s/index.html

As far as Pontiacs are concerned Bruce is one of the best around.  Back in the mid 90's we use to sell him the Edelbrock alumunum heads that he was building at the time.  Glad to see he is still around and doing well.

Has anyone done this?  Whats the difference in reliability and hp between the two?  Would it require some type of adapter plate for the berk jet to still work properly?  You guys have got me pondering on switching

The 460 is a newer design and is newer technology than the 454; the OEM passenger car 460 is created with parts that have the ability to make WAY more power than the passenger car 454; the 460 has a bigger standard bore and unshrouds the valves far better than the 454; the 460 can be stroked to 557 cubes EASY (and even more is possible) and without having to clearance the crankcase; the 460 drives the oil pump and distributor from the front of the camshaft where the timing chain is, not the 454 which loads/twists the cam because the pump/distibutor drive is at the opposite end of the cam from the timing chain; the 460 has a gerotor oil pump while the 454 has a cavitation-prone spur gear pump; the 460 has a taller deck than the 454; the 460 can get big compression ratios with inexpensive flat top pistons while the 454 needs a heavy dome-top piston to get the same compression ratio; the 460 blocks are made of material that is so hard that after boring just two cylinders we need to lap our bits...while with the same bits the 454 block can be bored non-stop and the block material turns to dust as we bore it; the 460 head bolts anchor into blind threads in the block while the 454 head bolts screw into the water jacket and so the both bolt threads and block threads strip routinely; the 460 head bolts are 9/16-inch and hold 140 foot-pounds of clamping force while the 454 has wimpy 7/16-bolts and manage 65-75 foot pounds only; the 460 has preferred 0.875" diameter lifters while the 454 has leser 0.842" diameter lifters; the 460 has a superior 1.72 rod ratio while the 454 has an average 1.53 rod ratio, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera...

Bottom Line: If you see people on this Forum jabbing each other in good, fun banter, please do not confuse it with a serious debate; we're just clowining around.  On the other hand, if you see anyone anywhere involved in a heated argument and they seriously believe that the 454 is a superior example in engineering, then my money says that person is an ingorant, stupid-ass, dum-fuk poseur that has built little more than chebby's, hasn't a clue of all the great engines that are out there, and is mistaking engine "popularity" as "superior engine design," which of course it is NOT.

LO

p.s.: Either engine will work excellently in a pleasure boat such as yours. Keeping either engine running in a jet boat requires preventive maintenance.  If you cannot keep a Ford or chebby alive in a jet boat, chances are that it ain't the engine's fault if you know what I mean.

The 460 is a newer design and is newer technology than the 454; the OEM passenger car 460 is created with parts that have the ability to make WAY more power than the passenger car 454; the 460 has a bigger standard bore and unshrouds the valves far better than the 454; the 460 can be stroked to 557 cubes EASY (and even more is possible) and without having to clearance the crankcase; the 460 drives the oil pump and distributor from the front of the camshaft where the timing chain is, not the 454 which loads/twists the cam because the pump/distibutor drive is at the opposite end of the cam from the timing chain; the 460 has a gerotor oil pump while the 454 has a cavitation-prone spur gear pump; the 460 has a taller deck than the 454; the 460 can get big compression ratios with inexpensive flat top pistons while the 454 needs a heavy dome-top piston to get the same compression ratio; the 460 blocks are made of material that is so hard that after boring just two cylinders we need to lap our bits...while with the same bits the 454 block can be bored non-stop and the block material turns to dust as we bore it; the 460 head bolts anchor into blind threads in the block while the 454 head bolts screw into the water jacket and so the both bolt threads and block threads strip routinely; the 460 head bolts are 9/16-inch and hold 140 foot-pounds of clamping force while the 454 has wimpy 7/16-bolts and manage 65-75 foot pounds only; the 460 has preferred 0.875" diameter lifters while the 454 has leser 0.842" diameter lifters; the 460 has a superior 1.72 rod ratio while the 454 has an average 1.53 rod ratio, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera...

Bottom Line: If you see people on this Forum jabbing each other in good, fun banter, please do not confuse it with a serious debate; we're just clowining around.  On the other hand, if you see anyone anywhere involved in a heated argument and they seriously believe that the 454 is a superior example in engineering, then my money says that person is an ingorant, stupid-ass, dum-fuk poseur that has built little more than chebby's, hasn't a clue of all the great engines that are out there, and is mistaking engine "popularity" as "superior engine design," which of course it is NOT.

LO

p.s.: Either engine will work excellently in a pleasure boat such as yours. Keeping either engine running in a jet boat requires preventive maintenance.  If you cannot keep a Ford or chebby alive in a jet boat, chances are that it ain't the engine's fault if you know what I mean.

so there ya go!!!!   btw your website is great.  im doing your oiling mods on the engine im building right now.  how much is the dizzy relocate thingy??? i have a tunnel ram but i want to run hei

The bummer came when I found out that everything is different between Olds and Pontiac heads.

You'd be surprised what can be done with standard Poncho heads. Or, I'd look for any version of Ram Air heads. (RA IV are best, and probably the best non-canted valve head design ever!) Exhaust is gonna be a problem with any of those, but maybe Ironman can come up with some plates to make your own headers? I would think a generous set of SBC headers could be readily modified to work with any poncho head, particularly the Ram Air heads.

Have torch and welder, will travel!

Ray

The 460 is a newer design and is newer technology than the 454; the OEM passenger car 460 is created with parts that have the ability to make WAY more power than the passenger car 454; the 460 has a bigger standard bore and unshrouds the valves far better than the 454; the 460 can be stroked to 557 cubes EASY (and even more is possible) and without having to clearance the crankcase; the 460 drives the oil pump and distributor from the front of the camshaft where the timing chain is, not the 454 which loads/twists the cam because the pump/distibutor drive is at the opposite end of the cam from the timing chain; the 460 has a gerotor oil pump while the 454 has a cavitation-prone spur gear pump; the 460 has a taller deck than the 454; the 460 can get big compression ratios with inexpensive flat top pistons while the 454 needs a heavy dome-top piston to get the same compression ratio; the 460 blocks are made of material that is so hard that after boring just two cylinders we need to lap our bits...while with the same bits the 454 block can be bored non-stop and the block material turns to dust as we bore it; the 460 head bolts anchor into blind threads in the block while the 454 head bolts screw into the water jacket and so the both bolt threads and block threads strip routinely; the 460 head bolts are 9/16-inch and hold 140 foot-pounds of clamping force while the 454 has wimpy 7/16-bolts and manage 65-75 foot pounds only; the 460 has preferred 0.875" diameter lifters while the 454 has leser 0.842" diameter lifters; the 460 has a superior 1.72 rod ratio while the 454 has an average 1.53 rod ratio, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera...

Bottom Line: If you see people on this Forum jabbing each other in good, fun banter, please do not confuse it with a serious debate; we're just clowining around.  On the other hand, if you see anyone anywhere involved in a heated argument and they seriously believe that the 454 is a superior example in engineering, then my money says that person is an ingorant, stupid-ass, dum-fuk poseur that has built little more than chebby's, hasn't a clue of all the great engines that are out there, and is mistaking engine "popularity" as "superior engine design," which of course it is NOT.

LO

p.s.: Either engine will work excellently in a pleasure boat such as yours. Keeping either engine running in a jet boat requires preventive maintenance.  If you cannot keep a Ford or chebby alive in a jet boat, chances are that it ain't the engine's fault if you know what I mean.

Holly sh't Paul 

WOW.. Talk about a thread jacking but keep it up.. I have my first blue oval and so far I love it... Keep that info coming I would love to hear more on the junkyard dizzy swap... ... yeah baby

  one question....sooo that thingy cost 1000$ or more???  yikes!!! 

Comparing to prices of electronic disributors is comparing apples to oranges. These are mag drives, not distrbutors, and they are boutique racing componentry at that.  OUR COST on the materials alone for the single mag is damn-near $1000.  The SINGLE mag has SEVEN gears in it...looks like a goddam swiss watch inside.    AND, there is NOTHING in the mag drive that is used "as purchased" except the bronze drive gear and the roller bearings....the rest of the parts are made in-house from raw materials or purchased and then modified to be used in our mags.  Billy (machinist) went to two different major gear manufacturers, and they both told him that two of the gears that we wanted made were "physically impossible to manufacture," and so he makes them himself from bar stock....god bless that guy he is a genius.  While I our mag drive may be at the upper price range of the typical mag drives on the market, it is not at all outragously priced for what you get (remember we are talking super high-end drag racing componentry). Here's a pic from three weeks ago:

what year truck am i looking for??? like a 90 f350 with a 460 or something???

Ford came out with the Dura-Spark electronic distributors around 1974, so 1974-up vehicles have them.  The electronic box you want should have the blue strain relief. If you want to purchase a remanufactured/already recurved Dura-Spark distributor, my colleague Scott Johnston sells them.

what are the main advantages of running a roller cam setup vrs doing a hydraulic flat tappet?  ... is it truly necessary??? 

Which camshaft you use depends on what your engine combo is.  Bigger is not always better; further it is possible to have a poorly chosen combo of GOOD parts that HURT power.  Selecting parts that are just right for your targeted build combo is what makes a good engine.

 

my thoughts were this:  less friction equals better engine response and longer life.   but is it really worth it?  what kind of money do you think it would cost to get a cam with all the needed items including new springs???

Bigger cams, such as roller cams, require a valve train that dictates increased maintenace, not less. Bigger springs pound seats harder (etc) roller lifters means more moving parts in your engines. Generally, more horsepower means more maintenance. Put it this way: dime-a-dozen passenger car engines run hundreds of thousands of miles without a rebuild, while a top fuel engine is rebuilt after a one thousand foot pass. Your modified engine falls somewhere in between....the more modified, the more mantenance required (it's more complicated than that, but you get the idea).

LO