SoCal Jet Boats
Tech Talk => Engine Mechanical / Electrical => Topic started by: KillJoy on August 06, 2013, 06:38:20 PM
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Boat: 89 commander, 454 and from what I can figure it is a Mark IV engine, # T02210XK. Berkley Jet. Was supposedly a fresh motor with maybe one season on it. I believe it was the original motor that was rebuilt. Third trip out in this boat for us, usually a day or so with about 8 hours of runtime over a couple days.
So, day one all is good. Do some choppy skiing, make a couple runs up and down the Parker Strip... Next day, same kinda thing, made a couple stops and got going again. Everything sounds fine and the boat is running well at about 35 mph. Then a really deep and heavy boom goes off down in the engine along with a good amount of oil smoke. Engine was turned off immediately, not that it would matter with the giant CLUNK that basically stopped the engine. More smoke coming out of the valve covers. A good amount of oil has now shown up in the bilge area. Turned the key on to see what the water temp was right away... 145 degrees. Did not see/notice the oil pressure before the incident. No heat issues or oil pressure issues on our previous outings and I watch that stuff pretty close since I have owned old VW's for a long time.
I guess rod, but don't really know that much about these things. We get towed back to the ramp and someone else says, "rod". He calls his mechanic friend who comes out to look at it and says, "rod.. probably punched the oil pan."
It would sorta turn over when I checked it again today... noisy and clunky and then it moved no more.
So... a few questions for ya'll:
Any good and cheap crate motors around? Do you have a favorite outfit that you have bought one from?
Just how hard is it to get the engine etc out of the boat? It looks like a regular engine cherry picker will be too short to pluck the deceased. Do I build a crane or what?
Maybe it is not a thrown rod. Any other ideas? Too early to tell?
Do you know of any good shops that can work on something like this, or install a crate motor for me? (SoCal area, out by San Bernardino would be good)
What is your bestest and cheapest way to get this thing back on the water?
Thanks for any replies!
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Boat: 89 commander, 454 and from what I can figure it is a Mark IV engine, # T02210XK. Berkley Jet. Was supposedly a fresh motor with maybe one season on it. I believe it was the original motor that was rebuilt. Third trip out in this boat for us, usually a day or so with about 8 hours of runtime over a couple days.
So, day one all is good. Do some choppy skiing, make a couple runs up and down the Parker Strip... Next day, same kinda thing, made a couple stops and got going again. Everything sounds fine and the boat is running well at about 35 mph. Then a really deep and heavy boom goes off down in the engine along with a good amount of oil smoke. Engine was turned off immediately, not that it would matter with the giant CLUNK that basically stopped the engine. More smoke coming out of the valve covers. A good amount of oil has now shown up in the bilge area.
I guess rod, but don't really know that much about these things. We get towed back to the ramp and someone else says, "rod". He calls his mechanic friend who comes out to look at it and says, "rod.. probably punched the oil pan."
It would sorta turn over when I checked it again today... noisy and clunky and then it moved no more.
So... a few questions for ya'll:
Any good and cheap crate motors around? Do you have a favorite outfit that you have bought one from?
Just how hard is it to get the engine etc out of the boat? It looks like a regular engine cherry picker will be too short to pluck the deceased. Do I build a crane or what?
Maybe it is not a thrown rod. Any other ideas? Too early to tell?
Do you know of any good shops that can work on something like this, or install a crate motor for me? (SoCal area, out by San Bernardino would be good)
What is your bestest and cheapest way to get this thing back on the water?
Thanks for any replies!
Where is Ralph? Good is not cheap and cheap is not good.... ;)
IMHO your best bet is to have it pulled (if your not comfortable doing yourself) and WTF happened.... The first order of business is to do a forensic investigation to see what killed it. If you don't fix that, putting another motor in is just silly... :screwy:
The next order of business is to find out what it will take to get it back together, block, crank , rods, heads etc.....
There is a good chance there is a whole bunch of major carnage, but then again, you never know.
GT
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Yeah, I understand the Good and Cheap problem.
How about reasonable and not crap for new terms? Anyone have a crate place they like? Online searches really only pull up pissed off customers and nightmare stories.
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Killjoy..Got a guy in the high dez old timer built my motor...been runnin it almost 5 seasons now still runs hard imo..
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The problem is that most "crate" engines are automotive engines, with automotive tolerances. You want an engine built with open cooling system marine tolerances. I had my machine work done at a small shop in Yucaipa called Johnson's on 10th st. His shop is well equipped and he knew exactly what I wanted when I told him is was for a jet boat. It wasn't cheap, but it was reasonable for what I had him do.
For getting the engine out of the boat, find someone with a forklift to help you get it out and into the back of a truck.
Good luck
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Ok... update. It seems the problem may not be that bad. What do you guys think?
[attachimg=1]
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Ok... update. It seems the problem may not be that bad. What do you guys think?
(Attachment Link)
until you start pulling it apart ....and start looking at internals there's no way to accurately determine damage.... my eyes are old and blurry at times but that looks like part of a rod poking thru the pan to me....?
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Why is there no plug in this?????
[attachimg=1]
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Oil sender goes there
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Oil sender goes there
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I know what goes there , I asked why it was unplugged. Normally when you pull your motor you dont pull you yore sending units.
If for some reason that came loose or fell out or was forgotten to be put in it would explain the big end of the rod hanging out of the side of the oil pan.
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Boat: 89 commander, 454 and from what I can figure it is a Mark IV engine, # T02210XK. Berkley Jet. Was supposedly a fresh motor with maybe one season on it. I believe it was the original motor that was rebuilt. Third trip out in this boat for us, usually a day or so with about 8 hours of runtime over a couple days.
So, day one all is good. Do some choppy skiing, make a couple runs up and down the Parker Strip... Next day, same kinda thing, made a couple stops and got going again. Everything sounds fine and the boat is running well at about 35 mph. Then a really deep and heavy boom goes off down in the engine along with a good amount of oil smoke. Engine was turned off immediately, not that it would matter with the giant CLUNK that basically stopped the engine. More smoke coming out of the valve covers. A good amount of oil has now shown up in the bilge area. Turned the key on to see what the water temp was right away... 145 degrees. Did not see/notice the oil pressure before the incident. No heat issues or oil pressure issues on our previous outings and I watch that stuff pretty close since I have owned old VW's for a long time.
I guess rod, but don't really know that much about these things. We get towed back to the ramp and someone else says, "rod". He calls his mechanic friend who comes out to look at it and says, "rod.. probably punched the oil pan."
It would sorta turn over when I checked it again today... noisy and clunky and then it moved no more.
So... a few questions for ya'll:
Any good and cheap crate motors around? Do you have a favorite outfit that you have bought one from?
Just how hard is it to get the engine etc out of the boat? It looks like a regular engine cherry picker will be too short to pluck the deceased. Do I build a crane or what?
Maybe it is not a thrown rod. Any other ideas? Too early to tell?
Do you know of any good shops that can work on something like this, or install a crate motor for me? (SoCal area, out by San Bernardino would be good)
What is your bestest and cheapest way to get this thing back on the water?
Thanks for any replies!
If you need a hand rebuilding that motor let me know... I have some connections and know a good reliable machine shop .. Just rebuilt mine and added some goodies inside and did a few tricks of the trade ....and didn't hurt the wallet to bad.... I also have a buddy with a running 454 short block with a good full rotating assembly that will sell for cheap... Just needs to be cleaned up and add some goodies to it... Could have your heads rebuilt if there bad put your manifold and carb etc on and get this one together to help you get back in the water.. Think he wants $500 for everything .. Easy job to go through the whole motor and clean up .. Let me know ..
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Thanks for the offers for help and the shorty! I've already got a crate motor ready to go in as a replacement.
Re: sender: Unrelated to the failure. The sender is out because it is being swapped out onto a crate motor.
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Good luck. I hope your crate motor is a marine crate motor not a car / truck crate motor. They are different.
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Good luck. I hope your crate motor is a marine crate motor not a car / truck crate motor. They are different.
Yep, marine crate
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UPDATE:
Picked up the boat on Thurs AM from the Mech and took it out for a spin... went 30 feet and the circuit breaker blew... but it does this all the time. Not sure why. I'll come back to that later....
Anyway... cruised around a bit and all seems well. No issues thus far. Got in a couple to a few hours over two days and did a bit of skiing. The Mech had taken it out previous to our arrival and then readjusted the valves. He told us to take is easy for a for a few hours before standing on it or anything so it could break in a bit more. No leaks so far and no outrageous noises. Maybe a bit of a valve tick but it might just be touching the valve cover. It has happened before. I see the cover deflecting ever so slightly when the engine runs.
Now... that damn breaker. It seems to blow when the engine gets turned off. Almost every time. It is the breaker that came with the boat. I bought a new one that was 30 amp and it blew too, and even faster than the one that was in there. I'm thinking it had something to do with the alternator. The guy before us had just replaced the alt before we got the boat. The volt meter on the dash says it is moaning out 15 volts or so most of the time. The battery does not appear to be charging even with that excess juice from the alt.
So, I am going to charge up the batteries (it has two, a regular and deep cycle, hooked into a selector switch) and take them to the AutoZone to test them. Maybe a short or something in the battery/s?
Maybe the Alt is bananas?
Maybe a short somewhere else?
When the circuit breaker pops the whole dash goes dead as far as gauges and ign. The wires going into the breaker are warm to the touch. Something is pulling a lot of juice somewhere.
Any ideas welcome... think of me as a brain damaged n00b and help me out. More questions to follow for sure.l