SoCal Jet Boats
Tech Talk => Engine Mechanical / Electrical => Topic started by: 76 Bonneville on April 23, 2008, 07:16:01 PM
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What are your opinions on intake manifolds for BBC. This is one of the motors being built for the Rogers. Its a 427 and has oval port heads and has 13-1 comp. I was originally going to run the tunnel ram setup that was on it but as it turns out it has rec. ports. I figured rec. to oval probably isn't a good thing. The Weiand Team G is the one I'm leaning towards. What do you think?
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I just bought a Team G on Ebay for $189. It's really nice and the casting is very clean compaired to the Edelbrock I just sold. The Team G claims to make power at a lower RPM than most other single plains.
Team G
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What rpm's are you expecting to get? My next engine is going to be a 427 ;D
2sav
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What are your opinions on intake manifolds for BBC. This is one of the motors being built for the Rogers. Its a 427 and has oval port heads and has 13-1 comp. I was originally going to run the tunnel ram setup that was on it but as it turns out it has rec. ports. I figured rec. to oval probably isn't a good thing. The Weiand Team G is the one I'm leaning towards. What do you think?
Why not just hog out the heads to the rectangle port? Then keep the cool looking tunnel ram ;D
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Its got a stanless impeller w/ the inducer and I was thinking 5400 rpm's, does that sound out of line? When I got the boat I thought it was a 454, but when we took it a part it had a 427 crank in it. I like the ol school look of the tunnel ram but not enough to grind that much out of the heads, besides to do it right wouldn't you have to check it with a flow bench. It would be easier to find rec. heads, but these heads are already done.
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But porting is free >:D
Depends how much money iyou have into those heads, if they are just a normal oval port with larger valves, then I say grind away and learn ;D
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According to the #'s there 1965-1966 396 heads.
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Team G
Holley Strip Dominator (not the Street Dominator)
Edelbrock Victor Jr.
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Dart! ;D
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On another forum the general conscensus (sp?) was the Team G was the preferred part followed by the Holley Strip Dominator. I would check with intake runner size before I paid for a Merlin or Dart, they may be made to match their heads and not a GM head. ???
Since the subject is so close and possibly the same, CAN ANYONE SHOW ME PROOF THAT PUTTING A RECT PORT INTAKE ON OVAL PORT HEADS IS A PROBLEM? Really not interested in opinion's, theory's, or conjecture, looking for proof!
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There is absolutely NO ISSUES with having a rectangle intake on oval heads if you have the right engine builder. My friends Dale Ferriera (owner of Hondo Boats and Ferriera Racing) says he has done is dozens of times and usually you can pick up a little performance if done right. He builds around 18 motors a month on average for racers around the US. I believe what ever he tells me
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If thats the case I'll run it. When you say done right are you saying to port match the heads to the intake?
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He goes to work on the heads and makes what he calls a "venturi" . I will see if he has any pics when I go down there today.
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I used to run a rect. port TR on my oval port heads . I only ran a single four on an Offy TR (that are supposed to be designed for jet boat appliacations) and the carb had to be set up correctly since the signal is so weak having the carb that far away . No , it's not an ideal set up but they have been ran like that for years and lots of people with great success . A drag racer from the south helped me out tremendously via PM's . He says he ran those set ups for at least 20 + years in a drag boat and has the titles to prove it . -RICHARD TILL- is his name over on PB.com SUUUUUPER helpful guy . I owe many river trips to him . ;D
-beerjet-
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On another forum the general conscensus (sp?) was the Team G was the preferred part followed by the Holley Strip Dominator. I would check with intake runner size before I paid for a Merlin or Dart, they may be made to match their heads and not a GM head. ???
Since the subject is so close and possibly the same, CAN ANYONE SHOW ME PROOF THAT PUTTING A RECT PORT INTAKE ON OVAL PORT HEADS IS A PROBLEM? Really not interested in opinion's, theory's, or conjecture, looking for proof!
What do you mean proof? Like a before and after dyno? It's just the head flow design, you're trying to get air/fuel into your combustion chamber as easy as possible, and when there's a big wall for that mixture to run into it makes it more difficult for the engine to produce power. You restrict the flow, you restrict the horsepower. Yes you can run a rectangle manifold on oval port heads just fine, and it will run fine, but it won't make the ideal power or Volumetric Efficiency that one would want
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What do you mean proof? Like a before and after dyno? It's just the head flow design, you're trying to get air/fuel into your combustion chamber as easy as possible, and when there's a big wall for that mixture to run into it makes it more difficult for the engine to produce power. You restrict the flow, you restrict the horsepower. Yes you can run a rectangle manifold on oval port heads just fine, and it will run fine, but it won't make the ideal power or Volumetric Efficiency that one would want
I agree totally in one hand , in the other , unless you dyno both set ups or are using a time slip I dont think you'll notice the diffrence .
-beerjet-
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This is what I do to oval port heads these are3964290 heads oval port closed 101 cc chamber witness line is full size rec port. do it right fit it rite... :banghead:
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I agree totally in one hand , in the other , unless you dyno both set ups or are using a time slip I dont think you'll notice the diffrence .
-beerjet-
i have to agree, just for reference i have a c/j manifold on stock intake ports and it is a bad mismatch. I was not willing to grind on my aluminum heads. i cant see any probs. just my .02 please go back to your chevy talk
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Well actually what's funny is I should have a before and after of matching these Rectangle ports pretty soon, hopefully within a month. We are rebuilding the pump in my pops Hondo, it only went 54mph before >:( Should have the rest of the parts here soon and will be throwing the pump back together and tuning the engine in before. And if time permits I will be doing a before and after GPS testing from Rectangle intake/ oval heads, and then ported to match rectangle heads to the manifold, just opening match porting only. I will then know for sure if it helps at all, even if it's only 2mph, it's something that can be done for free. If it loses, then I will be doing alot of this " :banghead: " ;D
i have to agree, just for reference i have a c/j manifold on stock intake ports and it is a bad mismatch. I was not willing to grind on my aluminum heads. i cant see any probs. just my .02 please go back to your chevy talk
I wouldn't grind on those heads either, cast iron is one thing, but the aluminum heads are much more "Strategic" in getting the correct flow. Several of the Engine Masters Challenge competitors that ran Fords and ran Super Cobra Jet Heads, actually fill the intake runner to the standard Ford port size. Just some food for though.
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The heads are 96 cc # 3909802. I'll try to get by the machine shop tomarrow and check to see if they have been port matched by the previous owner. I traded some cabinet work for this engine build, so I dont know how much time the owner of the shop is going to let his engine builder put into this motor. On the other hand I have another trade going with a guy that may have a line on another motor that he will go through for me. The last motor he built for me went 10 seasons in my Advantage. Ralph's pop use to race with these guys back in the 50's and 60's, and Harold Meziere still races all over the country. So this 427 could end up as a back up motor or maybe the Raspberry's motor.
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epoxie intake in , I have filled 427 hi rise in 5/8 bottom on hogan sheet manifold. One of these day we will read how some one started ther motor there was gas in intake it back fired and blue valve covers of and burnd boat down and killed there family to look cool, I saw my boys 67 stang back fire and blow valve covers and pan we got fire out it was in drive way. I have even epoxied 4brl clev heads and intake in to lots more. work great took hang over nationals 65 stang Lee Cook car I used Kop-Coat a-788 spash zone compound 2 part fild to toung port plates 1/2 bottom 1/4 on sides.
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for got picture 65 stang hang over nationals
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I can't phukin hear you, where's the proof that putting a rect port inatke on a oval port head is no beuno? ;D All I'm getting is idea's and theories. ;D
YES DYNO SHEETS ARE PROOF :o
Ralph said "go back to your Chevy talk", oh yea, like he's worried!
Not.
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i have 454 chev with 3 sets of heads oval new mild port work 6 angle valve job , oval to square port new custom built 8 angle valve job, and full on square port with 2.300 valves 10 angle valve job, You pay we dino to find out let me know.
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in my younger days I worked in an engine shop in oxnard ca and my old boss the builder also was told to do this very thing it was a 427 large oval port heads the guy didnt want to spend the cash to change the intake,the only difference was this was a blown motor you guys might remember the car it was a pink 57 chevy in all the mags in the early nineties it was stretched a few inches in the front but everytime i saw it in the mags I just laughed cause he didnt want spend the money for an intake instead he paid to match the ports i say this loosely cause there was just enough meat in the port entries to make it work but it did work made a shitload of power with no sacrafice but that was a blown motor on a naturally aspirated motor it would be very different ive been on flowbench and had hundreds of hours porting but never done this since then as a head porter the rpm you plan to run doesnt seem be all that much and if you matched it up the airspeed in the intake would speed up as it entered large volume to smaller volume I have several intakes for a chevy if your interested but hell 5500 why not a dual plane?
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I think it was the grand master the professor of Chev Warren Johnson that wants the smallest ports with highest port velocity. am looking for info now. look at NASCAR heads ports 800hp 350cubs 9 to one comp unleaded gas 9000rpm live for 500 miles one carb some time with res plate 200 miles per hour. :banghead: I want one ::)