SoCal Jet Boats
Tech Talk => Engine Mechanical / Electrical => Topic started by: JOE COASTIE on June 21, 2014, 04:03:05 PM
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Ok maybe i counted wrong because searching for starters for 169 teeth flex plate is not working..i only see 168 tooth starters?
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168 and 153 is standard. you mustve counted a tooth twice.
153 is a 13" flexplate and typically small block, 168 is 14" and is big block (bigger plate to give more force to turn the extra cubic inches). 168 is going to have a starter with staggered bolt holes as well... but you CAN technically use either as long as the starter bolts up. the starter will have the same number of teeth.
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.summitracing.com%2Fglobal%2Fimages%2Fprod%2Flarge%2Fpwm-9200.jpg&hash=ce02a241a076d3a154f35c9f1956d05643e304e4)
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So it doesnt matter if the starter itself has 9 or 11 teeth then?
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So it doesnt matter if the starter itself has 9 or 11 teeth then?
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NO.
What do you have cookin'?
GT
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A freaken mess....i started the " starter sounds like it disengaging to early" thread got all kinds of great input tried a buch and still nothing..its almost to me like the starter does bolt up close enuf to flex plate.
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I hav arco 30470 on 168 tooth
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I have the same starter. You running a flex plate or a flywheel?
I should probably go read the other thread... :sly: It just got so wordy.... LMAO
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Hahaha...umm im assuming fly wheel...i thought flex plate was just another name for it...how can i tell the diff?
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Hahaha...umm im assuming fly wheel...i thought flex plate was just another name for it...how can i tell the diff?
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Flexplate is a heavy sheet metal disc with holes on it that has the ring welded to it, (used on an automatic transmission). A flywheel is constructed of cast iron (used on a manual transmission), much heavier and has the ring shrunk to it. It sounds like you either have a bent (taco shaped) flexplate or a flywheel with the ring misplaced.
Has it always done this?
GT
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Ok so i hav a fly wheel and this is the first time i hav had all back together...motor was in pieces.
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In pieces wen i bought it
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U think i should just buy flex plate?
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It sounds to me like the ring on the flywheel is too far rearward, on a top starter motor, the ring gear gets moved toward the rear of the flywheel.
The flywheel would need to be removed and the ring heated up and flipped around and reinstalled back on the flywheel toward the front edge.
You could test this theory by removing the bendix shims from the starter and see if it improves, but it will not fix it, it will only get better.
I would pull the motor loose and set it on blocks in the boat and remove the flywheel and check it out. You can leave the motor hooked to fuel and electrical so you can test it before getting everything back together..
Hope this helps you get closer...
U think i should just buy flex plate?
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No... I don't.
GT
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Sorry but wat are bendix shims? If its the shims between block and starter then i hav none.
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Sorry but wat are bendix shims? If its the shims between block and starter then i hav none.
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If you look at the nose housing of the starter where the Bendix slides back and forth on the shaft, you will see a funny looking bushing at the end toward the very nose of the starter, there are typically a couple of shims on there to limit how far the Bendix moves toward the starter.
Do you have a way to get a picture of the bendix that has been trying to start the boat? It may show signs of how far it engages.
Gt
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COASTIE,
I went back and read through the thread you have on the issue...
You have a flex plate. And a worn out one at that. I would pick up another flexplate and ensure that the PTO fits properly, if the dowel pin is left the original length and you have a PTO for a flywheel, not a flex plat, you will not be able to get it tightened down properly.
Be careful to buy another 168 and find out if your engine is internally or externally balanced.
GT
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So at the tip there?
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So at the tip there?
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Yep, but it will not solve your problem...
COASTIE,
I went back and read through the thread you have on the issue...
You have a flex plate. And a worn out one at that. I would pick up another flexplate and ensure that the PTO fits properly, if the dowel pin is left the original length and you have a PTO for a flywheel, not a flex plat, you will not be able to get it tightened down properly.
Be careful to buy another 168 and find out if your engine is internally or externally balanced.
GT
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Ooooooh ok...so then back to changing out flex plate?
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Ooooooh ok...so then back to changing out flex plate?
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Yep.. The teeth are rounded off, they should have a chisel shape to them. yours are all rounded off. It will never really work reliably like that.
GT
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Dang ok well thank sir for your wealth of knowledge mucho appreciated.
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I have the same starter. You running a flex plate or a flywheel?
I should probably go read the other thread...  It just got so wordy.... LMAO
GT jets are you using a shim on your starter?
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I have the same starter. You running a flex plate or a flywheel?
I should probably go read the other thread...  It just got so wordy.... LMAO
GT jets are you using a shim on your starter?
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The only time they need to be shimmed is when the re-manufacturing company refaces the drive assembly.
You should have .020" to .030" clearance between the gear faces with the Bendix engaged.
You can check this with a paper clip between the teeth with the gear engaged. The easiest way to engage the teeth is with the solenoid pulled from the starter and you can simply pull on the plunger moving the Bendix into the gear.
GT
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Ooooh ok thanks
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A freaken mess....i started the " starter sounds like it disengaging to early" thread got all kinds of great input tried a buch and still nothing..its almost to me like the starter does bolt up close enuf to flex plate.
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update OK so here are sum pics of whats going on now ....ready to put new flex plate on...any suggestions.. 👍👎
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Forgot to add pics
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I bet u a beer its the cheap ass bolts you have holding the starter on. Dont go with kragen ones go to a real car spot and get higher grade bolts. I had a Burb with built small block and had issue. Itd be good then all the sudden brooooom. Wouldnt grab the teeth. Got good bolts no more issue.
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got the right bolts....now
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Is that the "new" flex plate? ???
GT
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no but this is
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Is it just me or are those dam bolts that go on to cv joint a pain 🐴
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Call me cautious , but I'd go to the dragstrip and find someone running a big block and offer them a case of beer to look this project over.
Sometimes a second set of eyes are priceless.
Don
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Not a baf idea
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U got that thing cranking yet? Im in Fairfield if u want a hand
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Really? no not yet came down to socal for the 4th to visit fam....i will back working on it monday tho.
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U got that thing cranking yet? Im in Fairfield if u want a hand
let me know wen ur available maybe just drop by hav a look see?
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Its Monday I'm off today let me know if you want me to drop bye.
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Picture in reply 16 looks like there is a bronze bearing that the starter gear goes up against ( not all the way to the snout )
Last picture in reply 25 looks like the flex plate is over the bronze bearing ( and the starter gear can't fully engage )
Is this correct or are the pictures deceiving ?
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Was it a high pitch wine? Is the new flex plate installed? U may or may not need shims or u might just need them on the outer bolt.
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Anyway trial and error will make it work keep at it
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Was it a high pitch wine? Is the new flex plate installed? U may or may not need shims or u might just need them on the outer bolt.
no new flex plate not installed yet
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Picture in reply 16 looks like there is a bronze bearing that the starter gear goes up against ( not all the way to the snout )
Last picture in reply 25 looks like the flex plate is over the bronze bearing ( and the starter gear can't fully engage )
Is this correct or are the pictures deceiving ?
thats wat it looks like to me too...
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