SoCal Jet Boats
Tech Talk => Engine Mechanical / Electrical => Topic started by: More2LifeThanMPG on February 14, 2012, 03:25:39 PM
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Okay, so I have a stock 460 with logs and snails in my day cruiser. And now that I got a new job I have some spending money, so I'm thinking I want a little more power out of the float. Nothing crazy, nothing too expensive, and hopefully something I can do myself.
So please give me some ideas on what kind of stuff to look into and for. I'm pretty new to engines so for the more part I'm pretty lose and where to go.
The last time I had it out it was running about 43 at 4500rpm I believe. I have been having some issues with it running at idle, started to take the carb apart and figured out it had real recently rebuilt, so now I'm not sure what to do.
**off topic but I'm also looking for a diverter.
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Even just adding a diverter will help you find that sweet spot on plane.
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Even just adding a diverter will help you find that sweet spot on plane.
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Yeah, that's one thing I know I'm going to do. Just trying to get my trailer fixed first before I go take it down to Tom and get fitted with a diverter.
My problem is I know my boat isn't worth too much more than what I paid for it, so I don't want to go dumping a bunch of money into her. But I would really like to be able to beat my dads boat. Haha
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I'm not sure where you are at but place diverter is in la Habra. You can just cut the middle man out and do it yourself. When you do get the diverter get a hydraulic one, it's worth it. There was a guy on PB selling one brand new for 650 which is CHEAP. I don't know what pump you have either so i could be full of crap. Also like I said I have that intake manifold for a 460 ford :-)
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My problem is I know my boat isn't worth too much more than what I paid for it, so I don't want to go dumping a bunch of money into her.
gotta stop thinking about a boat like its an investment that will pay off.
not to mention if its engine stuff that gets upgraded you can always pluck the motor out of your boat and sell it as a hull and put your motor into someone elses hull. plenty of people are willing to seperate motor from boats.
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If you're only running 43mph @ 4500 rpm's i'd be looking at the pump and the bottom of the boat. Are you sure you weren't dragging an anchor ;)
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I'm not sure where you are at but place diverter is in la Habra. You can just cut the middle man out and do it yourself. When you do get the diverter get a hydraulic one, it's worth it. There was a guy on PB selling one brand new for 650 which is CHEAP. I don't know what pump you have either so i could be full of crap. Also like I said I have that intake manifold for a 460 ford :-)
Yeah I was going to got to Tom directly, talked to him when I was at Lake Ming a few months back.
And yeah saw that one a little to late, it's already sold. Haha
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gotta stop thinking about a boat like its an investment that will pay off.
not to mention if its engine stuff that gets upgraded you can always pluck the motor out of your boat and sell it as a hull and put your motor into someone elses hull. plenty of people are willing to seperate motor from boats.
Oh I know it's not an investment, that I'll get my money out of. But it's like pouring $20k into a DD civic. It just doesn't make since... Plus I don't have all that much to drop anyways.
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If you're only running 43mph @ 4500 rpm's i'd be looking at the pump and the bottom of the boat. Are you sure you weren't dragging an anchor ;)
Ha I'm not 100% positive on those stats, it's just want I thought I remembered. Plus it's a big 20' Southwind, I'm not expecting too much. Just looking to have a good time with friends and family, make some memory's, oh and be able to beat my dad. :-)
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Yeah I was going to got to Tom directly, talked to him when I was at Lake Ming a few months back.
And yeah saw that one a little to late, it's already sold. Haha
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I would go to place diverter a d cut the middle man out. It will save you money. I did an install on my old spectra. There are pictures and stuff on here somewhere. It's super simple. Save where you can save and spend the Money where you need to spend the money.
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Okay, so I have a stock 460 with logs and snails in my day cruiser. And now that I got a new job I have some spending money, so I'm thinking I want a little more power out of the float. Nothing crazy, nothing too expensive, and hopefully something I can do myself.
So please give me some ideas on what kind of stuff to look into and for. I'm pretty new to engines so for the more part I'm pretty lose and where to go.
The last time I had it out it was running about 43 at 4500rpm I believe. I have been having some issues with it running at idle, started to take the carb apart and figured out it had real recently rebuilt, so now I'm not sure what to do.
It depends a lot on what you have for a stock 460 (passenger car 460 or a true marine 460). A properly jetted Holley 850 double pumper and a distributor with an aggressive advance curve can help a lot, but for the most part while OEM 460s might have all the design necessary to get good power it's still necessary to go insde them to really wake them up...even if only rubbing on the stock parts.
LO
p.s.: if you have an engine hatch, the 850 double pumper is not coast guard legal and you'll need a coast guard approved marine specific carburetor.
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I would start with the diverter if you're on a budget. It will help your overall performance. Even if you can only run mid 40's, its more fun with a fatty roost.
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It depends a lot on what you have for a stock 460 (passenger car 460 or a true marine 460). A properly jetted Holley 850 double pumper and a distributor with an aggressive advance curve can help a lot, but for the most part while OEM 460s might have all the design necessary to get good power it's still necessary to go insde them to really wake them up...even if only rubbing on the stock parts.
LO
p.s.: if you have an engine hatch, the 850 double pumper is not coast guard legal and you'll need a coast guard approved marine specific carburetor.
I do believe I have a true harman marine 460, and I do have a hatch. But that carb sounds like more trouble than it might be worth. I've attached a few pictures of my current carb.
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I would start with the diverter if you're on a budget. It will help your overall performance. Even if you can only run mid 40's, its more fun with a fatty roost.
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Yeah, the plan was to go pick up a hydraulic diverter this weekend (hopefully). And the diverter is already counted in the engine make over budget. It's as good as sent, I'm looking to still do some work on the engine. And as stated above if that just means break not open and clean everything up a little, or full new parts.
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Judging by your last post and also the pics in it, I would now say to use Holley 0-80443 850 Marine Double Pumper and an aftermarket double-roller chain which puts your cam straight-up (or advance the cam as far advanced as the double-roller's lower gear keyways will allow)....and advance your distributor's ignition timing. This applies whether you decide to go deeper into your engine or not.
LO
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Judging by your last post and also the pics in it, I would now say to use Holley 0-80443 850 Marine Double Pumper and an aftermarket double-roller chain which puts your cam straight-up (or advance the cam as far advanced as the double-roller's lower gear keyways will allow)....and advance your distributor's ignition timing. This applies whether you decide to go deeper into your engine or not.
LO
I totally agree, this comes from emissions laws and restrictions, the way Ford lowered emissions (and made less HP) was to retard the cam timing at or about 1975..
The 850 double pumper would be a great addition IMHO, but if you're only trying to better top end speed, there wont be too much realized given the investment, the timing advancement on the cam as well as ignition will wake it up with relatively small expense.
Pay attention to the tune. There is typically a lot to be gained with just some simple adjustments. I have seen the cam timing change effect top RPM by as much as 400 revs per minute...Thats not small potatoes given it can be done in an evening and cost very little...
Just another thought...The ignition timing only needs to be in the lower index for starting purposes, so get the advance to be "all in" at a very low RPM (like <2000)..
One last random thought. Your vacuum secondary spring should be yellow....(the lightest one)...
Good luck.
GT
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Humm, I'm not sure on the carb I've looked into them when I thought mine needed rebuilding and they are pretty expensive. And for not having any motor work currently wouldn't I need to step into a bigger carb? Like the motor has to be able to take the amount the carbs giving and the carb has to give enough for the motor that's it's not getting starved. Right?
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this will make it scoot
http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/boa/2830796464.html (http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/boa/2830796464.html)
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this will make it scoot
http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/boa/2830796464.html (http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/boa/2830796464.html)
Oh god, that will Gyit! But please, that will require more commitment than a diverter and intake manifold. Get the diverter, try it out then see what the upcomming season draws to you. (please get the turbo.) I want to see someone have it because I can't right now.
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Looking at your carb it appears to be a stock 600CFM used on marine conversions. If you go to a 850 change the vent tubes from the old to the new that will vent the gas to the inside of the carb. Also I have a Weiand Stealth manifold, you pay the freight I will donate it to you.
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this will make it scoot
http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/boa/2830796464.html (http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/boa/2830796464.html)
Haha, no matter how sweet that system would be. Not thinking it's going to fit under my hatch. Plus a twin turbo set up is a little extreme for me right now.
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Looking at your carb it appears to be a stock 600CFM used on marine conversions. If you go to a 850 change the vent tubes from the old to the new that will vent the gas to the inside of the carb. Also I have a Weiand Stealth manifold, you pay the freight I will donate it to you.
I don't fully understand what you mean about the vents, but I think I'm sticking with my carb right now. And a new manifold isn't going to increase power, is it?
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I would be very interested in any other tips for affordable 460 horsepower. If I'm going to scour the swap meets and CL, what is the best aftermarket intake or is the SCJ steel one just as good? In my case I am going to have to build a whole motor, is there a particular head or crank that is worth looking for? Is there any budget minded tricks to machining the heads or crank that deliver bang for the buck?
Now if you will excuse me I gotta go drool over that CL turbo dealio. Damn you ka0tyk for posting that moto candy ;)
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I would be very interested in any other tips for affordable 460 horsepower. If I'm going to scour the swap meets and CL, what is the best aftermarket intake or is the SCJ steel one just as good? In my case I am going to have to build a whole motor, is there a particular head or crank that is worth looking for? Is there any budget minded tricks to machining the heads or crank that deliver bang for the buck?
Now if you will excuse me I gotta go drool over that CL turbo dealio. Damn you ka0tyk for posting that moto candy ;)
you should swing by the long beach high perf swapmeet. i see a lot of BBF intake manifolds for like $100-150. some heads, dress up, carbs, etc. pretty hard deals to beat there.
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you should swing by the long beach high perf swapmeet. i see a lot of BBF intake manifolds for like $100-150. some heads, dress up, carbs, etc. pretty hard deals to beat there.
That's this weekend right...?
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That's this weekend right...?
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it was last weekend. next is march 11.
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it was last weekend. next is march 11.
That's right it's the second Sunday.
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So I finally went and got the boat out of storage to work on it. And I was talking to the guy at autozone while I was picking up some stuff. And he mentioned adding an msd box and replacing all the distributer, wires, coil, and everything. He said I should pick up a few mph, and be able to feel the better control I have.
So my question is any of this worth it? The "high performance" wires or anything. And if yes, where the heck would I put that box?
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I wouldn't run msd in your boat. Look up an HEI ford distributor from summit. I picked one up for my boat and got rid of the points. Works great and allows you to manually set the total advance. The whole drop in piece was like $150 maybe cheaper.
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I also wouldn't run a box ( had too many give up on me ) I would go with a hei or a msd pro billet or pertronix flame thrower. Shit you could even just pull the points out of your stick dizzy and add a pertronix unit. If your plugs and wires are older it wouldn't hurt you to replace them.
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So I finally went and got the boat out of storage to work on it. And I was talking to the guy at autozone while I was picking up some stuff. And he mentioned adding an msd box and replacing all the distributer, wires, coil, and everything. He said I should pick up a few mph, and be able to feel the better control I have.
So my question is any of this worth it? The "high performance" wires or anything. And if yes, where the heck would I put that box?
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first off your problem is that you were listening to some schmuck at autozone. all they know what to do is to look stuff up in a computer. and most of the time they cant even get that right. they know "0" about boats.
stick with the HEI.
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I have had a few personal experiences with ignition boxes in boats and cars and well if your gonna go that route make sure you don't forget a indash tv and a 46 led mounted to the engine hatch. Just get a good hei, new plugs and wires, set the cam heads up or advance it, get a new Darb and call it good.
Fat fingered from the phone- Corey
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Ether injection.
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Even a Pertronix kit in you current set up would be a huge move in the right direction... Cheap as hell too...You can buy just the standard conversion kit, or buy the one with a rev limiter and all the goodies, still super cheap and very reliable. I've done about 20 of them over the years.
A CD box will not do squat for top end speed, not really what they are designed for. The multiple spark discharge principle was developed for a longer spark dwell and making it possible to run more advanced timing, you may see 20-30 more rpm and better acceleration, but my suspicion is that the Ass-O-Nometer will never pick it up... ;D Not worth the several hundred bucks your going to blow...
Don't ever listen to the guy who's job it is to up sell you a bunch of crap you don't need....Ask him to guarantee the two mile an hour... >:D
GT
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Okay, cool. That's for all the input. And that's why I was there was to pick up new wires and plugs, plugs are installed. And wires are being ordered. And that the other thing that he said was basically re-doing the insides to get rid of the points.
Good to know, all this info though.
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Okay, so I was really wrong about my speed and rpm's hahaha... Me and the lady took it out to Elsinore yesterday to run it. (besides freezing our @sses off) it was a good thing I did, because I'm running at 47mph and right at 5100 rpm. So I'm glad I don't need to re-built the pump.
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