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el mojado

  • Karma: +15/-0
MSD or HEI
« on: July 31, 2014, 04:32:34 PM »
What are some opinions between the 2. I'm building a 20.5 70s cruiser. 454 .30 over w mild pop ups which are supposed to  be 10.5:1 comp, 049 heads, marine cam, 750 vac sec, Ebrock Air gap, logs, jacuzzi WJ. I have an MSD dizzy and box thats in good shape. But I'm leaning towards installing an HEI only because if I have an issue I can go go Vatozone and pick up a module, cap, or rotor. In this application would I be hurting performance?  Would I even notice? Which is more reliable? Having a hard time deciding. Thanks.

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jyeager

  • Karma: +62/-0
Re: MSD or HEI
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2014, 04:48:09 PM »
What are some opinions between the 2. I'm building a 20.5 70s cruiser. 454 .30 over w mild pop ups which are supposed to  be 10.5:1 comp, 049 heads, marine cam, 750 vac sec, Ebrock Air gap, logs, jacuzzi WJ. I have an MSD dizzy and box thats in good shape. But I'm leaning towards installing an HEI only because if I have an issue I can go go Vatozone and pick up a module, cap, or rotor. In this application would I be hurting performance?  Would I even notice? Which is more reliable? Having a hard time deciding. Thanks.

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i think its a preference thing to a point. I hate the look of a big bulky HEI, looks retarded to me haha. If you have the MSD i would just use it. Autozone or o'rileys have msd parts 3/4 of the time.
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icecreaman

  • Karma: +23/-0
Re: MSD or HEI
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2014, 06:27:06 PM »
I'm an HEI guy.  You definitely won't hurt your performance one bit running an HEI, they'd fire a nitro motor.  I  agree with the ability to diagnose and fix them easily with parts from a junk yard if need be. 

I will agree with Jake on their looks.   They're like a fat chick that puts out.  Not going to win any beauty contests, but you now she's a sure thing. :sly:
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jet fever

  • Karma: +7/-2
Re: MSD or HEI
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2014, 06:33:56 PM »
Are you worried about money?  If you have one why the question is it old?

Second question why would you need parts for it? 

Are you going to use mechanical advance?  I hate vacuum operated anything.

For hella money u can do MSD stand alone no extra box to mount. 

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ka0tyk

  • Karma: +30/-0
Re: MSD or HEI
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2014, 06:36:38 PM »
ive had a few MSD units for my mustangs and they've *ALWAYS* died at the worst possible moment. mounted in engine compartment and even had one under the drivers seat away from any vibrations, heat, or elements.  STILL died.

for that reason alone i went straight HEI.  its simple and it works. 
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86caribbean

  • Karma: +11/-0
Re: MSD or HEI
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2014, 09:48:42 PM »
There is no doubt that the HEI is a good bang for the buck, but for being an inductive ign. system it does have it's limitations. I've had a GM system on my boat before, and had misfires at WOT, then tried a Pertronix system that shit on me twice, then finally went with the MSD marine 6A and the marine pro-billet dist. and have never looked back. I have been using MSD Ign. in my big block Chevelle for 21 years without a problem and the 7AL series in my 7 sec. alcohol dragster and never had any issues either.
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el mojado

  • Karma: +15/-0
Re: MSD or HEI
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2014, 11:51:36 PM »
The box I have is not marine. How much of an issue could that be? Can I just try to install it in a dry spot?....I'm still on the fence with this.

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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: MSD or HEI
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2014, 12:01:11 AM »
What are some opinions between the 2. I'm building a 20.5 70s cruiser. 454 .30 over w mild pop ups which are supposed to  be 10.5:1 comp, 049 heads, marine cam, 750 vac sec, Ebrock Air gap, logs, jacuzzi WJ. I have an MSD dizzy and box thats in good shape. But I'm leaning towards installing an HEI only because if I have an issue I can go go Vatozone and pick up a module, cap, or rotor. In this application would I be hurting performance?  Would I even notice? Which is more reliable? Having a hard time deciding. Thanks.

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Honestly, I have the MSD Pro Billet Distributor using a 6AL box and a Mallory box coil, IMHO, bulletproof. This setup has been in four different boats, two of which were Marathon racers.

That being said, I also use the factory Thunderbolt systems for closed engine applications. It is basically a hall effect sensor, a CD Box, (which is like a Ford Dura Spark module) and a coil.

I have only used a GM type HEI, and if they were not so prone to water damage, I would say it is a good way to go... But they sure are clunky...

JMHO
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

Your Mom

  • Karma: +20/-0
Re: MSD or HEI
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2014, 07:30:22 AM »
I run Unilite in both my fords without any drama...

jet fever

  • Karma: +7/-2
Re: MSD or HEI
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2014, 07:46:39 AM »
MSD Standalone

Yeah its 500 bux but no box Marine Its Billet and great bang for the buck. 

All about what u wanna spend. 
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mobboss

  • Karma: +15/-0
Re: MSD or HEI
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2014, 08:06:43 AM »
in a boat it should be simple stupid.add a box and all that other shit is just asking for a problem on the water. At  the most inopportune time. Which is usually when your in the middle!!!! Go with the HEI ! Its basic and not alot of moving parts!
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el mojado

  • Karma: +15/-0
Re: MSD or HEI
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2014, 12:28:50 PM »
Any more horror stories with eithr one? I think I'm beginning to lean towards HEI

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jyeager

  • Karma: +62/-0
Re: MSD or HEI
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2014, 04:09:06 PM »

Any more horror stories with eithr one? I think I'm beginning to lean towards HEI

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If you already have the msd stuff why don't you run it????? Save some money else were


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el mojado

  • Karma: +15/-0
Re: MSD or HEI
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2014, 04:17:51 PM »
I'm leaning towards ease of installation and availability of parts should something go wong. If I have an issue, each part that can fail in an HEI is less than $30 bucks and readily available. If MSD failed that would be an expensive boating weekend. And there goes beer money. Still going back n forth in my head with this. MSD stuff I have is good to go. Just needs cap and rotor. Anyone have MSD 6A fail on the water? And why?

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el mojado

  • Karma: +15/-0
Re: MSD or HEI
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2014, 02:38:10 PM »
Decided to go HEI. ease of installation, simplicity, less parts, and parts availabilty. Gonna save the MSD for land hot rods. Thanks for input!

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rush1

  • Karma: +18/-0
Re: MSD or HEI
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2014, 10:21:00 PM »
Hei all the way there super easy to install and reliable

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Flusher

  • Karma: +84/-0
Re: MSD or HEI
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2014, 06:19:33 AM »
Just throwing this out there.  It is not a matter of IF and electronic device will fail, it is a matter of WHEN it will fail.  Both the HEI and the MSD are electronic devices and are susceptible to failing and as ka0tyk pointed out, it is always “at the worst possible moment.”

If you would like to run the MSD, you can always make an emergency backup pigtail and HEI module (mounted to an aluminum plate as a heat sink).  It is small enough to keep in a water tight plastic box such as where I would keep an extra set of spark plugs etc.

You could always go for the cool factor and wire in two MSD boxes NASCAR style.  Carrying a backup MSD box is an option too.  If you do go the HEI route, I would also carry a backup HEI module.

Another option, that will bring on the controversy, is a Vertex magneto.  Simple, reliable, and self contained.  It only uses one ground wire to “turn it off” and no power is required as it generates its own.  The most common failure is internally shorting out the coil from too much resistance i.e. resister core plug wires, resister plugs, and too wide of a gap (.019 recommended).  The electricity has to go somewhere and if it can’t go through the plug, it will make its own path internally.  Another common failure, in a car, is de-energizing the magnets by welding on the chassis while the mag is installed or polishing the mag body.

Cheers,

Joe
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"I want to roll with my brother Joe" - Joe Bateman - January 29, 1950 ~ November 27, 2013

el mojado

  • Karma: +15/-0
Re: MSD or HEI
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2014, 03:46:00 PM »
Just throwing this out there.  It is not a matter of IF and electronic device will fail, it is a matter of WHEN it will fail.  Both the HEI and the MSD are electronic devices and are susceptible to failing and as ka0tyk pointed out, it is always “at the worst possible moment.”

If you would like to run the MSD, you can always make an emergency backup pigtail and HEI module (mounted to an aluminum plate as a heat sink).  It is small enough to keep in a water tight plastic box such as where I would keep an extra set of spark plugs etc.

You could always go for the cool factor and wire in two MSD boxes NASCAR style.  Carrying a backup MSD box is an option too.  If you do go the HEI route, I would also carry a backup HEI module.

Another option, that will bring on the controversy, is a Vertex magneto.  Simple, reliable, and self contained.  It only uses one ground wire to “turn it off” and no power is required as it generates its own.  The most common failure is internally shorting out the coil from too much resistance i.e. resister core plug wires, resister plugs, and too wide of a gap (.019 recommended).  The electricity has to go somewhere and if it can’t go through the plug, it will make its own path internally.  Another common failure, in a car, is de-energizing the magnets by welding on the chassis while the mag is installed or polishing the mag body.

Cheers,

Joe
So are u saying I can wire in an HEI module to my MSD distributor!?

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Flusher

  • Karma: +84/-0
Re: MSD or HEI
« Reply #18 on: August 04, 2014, 04:17:03 PM »
Yes, either the 4 or 7 pin HEI module will work.  The 7-pin HEI module won't use 3 of the pins that are used for the computer controlled timing advance and will rely entirely on the mechanical/vacuum (if applicable) advance in the distributor.

What I was getting at was, you can make an emergency pigtail utilizing an HEI module to get you home if the MSD fails.  Or you could hardwire it on a switch NASCAR style.

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"I want to roll with my brother Joe" - Joe Bateman - January 29, 1950 ~ November 27, 2013

 


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