need help quick. bbf 460 starter help.

« **on:** May 22, 2009, 08:23:27 AM »

What kind of starter do I need to get for my 78 cv23 jet boat. The boat has a ford 460 and the starter is mounted on top of the bellhousing on the passanger side. Is this a reverse starter or just a normal one. I just replaced the flywheel with a normal flywheel so I hope its a normal starter. Thanks for ur help. Mike

« **Reply #1 on:** May 22, 2009, 08:26:18 AM »

Does the nose of the starter point towards the back of the boat or the front? Sounds like a reverse rotation top mount to me. Don't think the flywheel matters on a Ford, but the starter does.

Ray

« **Reply #2 on:** May 22, 2009, 08:31:15 AM »

Hit up 2sav, he may have you covered. Or call Tom at Jet Boat Performance

« **Reply #3 on:** May 22, 2009, 08:35:45 AM »

The nose points towards the front. If It is a reverse rotation then its getten rebuilt today I have to be at the lake this weekend. If its a standard I will just slap on a high torque today. Either way I need to know. Thanks

« **Reply #4 on:** May 22, 2009, 08:44:58 AM »

It's reverse. Where ya goin on the Lake, OC just went thru the gate.

« **Reply #5 on:** May 22, 2009, 08:50:06 AM »

Reverse rotation then, no you can't use a standard starter! PM 2sav, I know he has a couple he's getting rid of, as Terry pointed out. If not, Call tom at JBP.

Ray

« **Reply #6 on:** May 22, 2009, 08:54:52 AM »

That's what I was afraid of. I live in vegas so if I find a motor shop to rebuild this thing quick like ill be going to lake mead.

« **Reply #7 on:** May 22, 2009, 08:57:04 AM »

You may be able to put a standard starter on in the stock location. What part of Mead, Sandy?

« **Reply #8 on:** May 22, 2009, 09:33:32 AM »

Damn all the motor shops here in vegas are swampede I don't think I can put a starter in the stock place because its to close to the bottom of the boat. Only if a vegas boater had the reverse starter for sale. Anyways I hopefully will be launching at hemmingway going through the narrows towards ecoibay and there is a few coves and one cove will have about 20 boats. All beached around my buddys 42ft cabincruiser. It should be fun if I can get a starter.

« **Reply #9 on:** May 22, 2009, 09:41:07 AM »

I think I'd shoot for a checker starter for now, you should have clearence. What part of town are you in? I could look at it and see whats up w/ it if you'd like?

« **Reply #10 on:** May 22, 2009, 10:01:23 AM »

I'm at work until noon I'm a towercrane operator at citycenter. The boat is parked at my buddys house on cheyenne and clayton. Ur right it might fit but I will have to move some wires and figure out a way to water proof the thing as it will prob get wet. The boats a jet so it takes on a little water. Iam not a hundred percent that the starter is bad. Its a brand new motor and the starter tries but it act as if its to weak to turn it. Maybe the armeture or brushes going bad. I did find a place on industrial that said they prob could have it done by either 2night or 2morrow morning. I'm going to go buy a brand new battery and if that doesn't work, the starter is shot.

« **Reply #11 on:** May 22, 2009, 10:04:35 AM »

Ok, if I can help lemme know 374-8108

« **Reply #12 on:** May 22, 2009, 10:08:41 AM »

Why waterproof it? You planning on sinking the thing? How wet do you think they get underneath a car in the rain or in the north with snow and everything else packed on them then melting? Run it dawg! it'll be fine!

Ray

Edit, could be a cable. The Moo does this once in a while, and it's the ground cable having a little loose crimp. Tried re-crimping it, but still does it from time to time, not a big enough deal to change it yet.

« **Reply #13 on:** May 22, 2009, 10:17:31 AM »

Nice! Hell ya I didn't even think about that. It does get wet. Ill prob just run a cheapo 50 doller starter then. And just let them take their time on the reverse one. So what's up u guys going to the lake. Like I said total party at mead. If that sucks another crane op here has a 3 rooms booked at riverside in laughlin so either way it should make for a good time.

« **Reply #14 on:** May 22, 2009, 10:28:06 AM »

Quote from: navyman_98_99 on May 22, 2009, 08:23:27 AM

I just replaced the flywheel with a normal flywheel so I hope its a normal starter. Thanks for ur help. Mike

I remember GT saying something about needing a reverse direction flexplate or something like that for the topmounts. Good Luck!

I think he was talking about it in 2sav's starter for sale thread.

« **Reply #15 on:** May 22, 2009, 10:31:28 AM »

Quote from: navyman_98_99 on May 22, 2009, 10:01:23 AM

Its a brand new motor and the starter tries but it act as if its to weak to turn it.

I have had several episodes of "weak" cranking with my BBF starter (same location as yours). Every time, it has turned out to be cables/connections. I had fine braided wire for awhile (like arc welding leads) and switched to big coarse gage wire like for using to wire up heavy machinery to the starter panel.

Check over all your connections maybe it will turn out you don't have a big problem!

« **Reply #16 on:** May 22, 2009, 10:33:51 AM »

I had the same weak starter problem to so I ended up ditching the top mount that I could never get to work right and have been using the same autozone stocker special for 2 years without a single flaw. I have had the starter underwater before and still fired the engine up so I wouldnt worry about that.

« **Reply #17 on:** May 22, 2009, 10:34:49 AM »

Quote from: ryanbrindle on May 22, 2009, 10:28:06 AM

I remember GT saying something about needing a reverse direction flexplate or something like that for the topmounts. Good Luck!

I think he was talking about it in 2sav's starter for sale thread.

I think that's a Chebbie 'ting Ryan, Could be wrong, but all my starters have straight cut gears, so do the flexplates. Can't see that being an issue.

Ray

« **Reply #18 on:** May 22, 2009, 10:36:34 AM »

What about an aux solinoid? Could that cause the slow starter. My boats has the regular starter solanoid then an aux.

« **Reply #19 on:** May 22, 2009, 10:41:42 AM »

Quote from: IRRebel on May 22, 2009, 10:34:49 AM

I think that's a Chebbie 'ting Ryan, Could be wrong, but all my starters have straight cut gears, so do the flexplates. Can't see that being an issue.

Ray

Might be a chevy thing for the reverse flexplate dealio but I could never get the top mount to work right on my BBF. The bendix would hang on the brand new flexplate 3 out of 5 times. I tried to different starters and both did the same thing and thats why I ditched it. My starter guy said that in order for it to actually work well you have to get one of those hi-torque type so that the bendix goes back in when you let off the start button instead of relying on the motor to kick it back like the old school starters.

« **Reply #20 on:** May 22, 2009, 10:43:46 AM »

No, but the Aux solenoid is a good idea( I dun run one). BUT you have more connections and cables that could be failing you. Do this, take loose all your cables, use a wire brush on all the connections and cable ends, including the battery, then coat them with Vaseline and re connect everything. I bet your problem goes away.

Ray

« **Reply #21 on:** May 22, 2009, 10:44:09 AM »

Maybe this pic will help? I only have one solenoid. More stuff = more connections = more loose chit = weaker crank.

« **Reply #22 on:** May 22, 2009, 10:53:43 AM »

Quote from: ryanbrindle on May 22, 2009, 10:41:42 AM

Might be a chevy thing for the reverse flexplate dealio but I could never get the top mount to work right on my BBF. The bendix would hang on the brand new flexplate 3 out of 5 times. I tried to different starters and both did the same thing and thats why I ditched it. My starter guy said that in order for it to actually work well you have to get one of those hi-torque type so that the bendix goes back in when you let off the start button instead of relying on the motor to kick it back like the old school starters.

I dunno Ryan, Glenn knows more than me on this, but to my thinking, the only time I can see a problem using a top mount reverse starter (Even on a Chebbie) is when using it on a used beat up flexplate that has been well used with the standard starter. If it gets grooved on the teeth, then yeah, I can see hanging up occurring, but basically, the bendix goes in and engages with the flexplate when engaged, and spring tension brings it back with no torque applied, (And centrifugal force of the running engine helps expedite that) what direction it goes depends on how the starter is wired. Nothing more, nothing less.

Just another .02 (I must be up to about $50 so far on those, half of them maybe useful)

Ray

« **Reply #23 on:** May 22, 2009, 10:58:04 AM »

Ya my flywheel has straight cut teeth too its brand new and matched the original. the starter also has straight teeth. I'm just gonna run a wet starter. It may be a pain to install it but it will work. So what's up? Who's goin to the lake/river.

« **Reply #24 on:** May 22, 2009, 11:02:01 AM »

I'm workin all weekend, but that frees my summer up

Ray

« **Reply #25 on:** May 22, 2009, 11:13:37 AM »

Quote from: navyman_98_99 on May 22, 2009, 10:58:04 AM

Ya my flywheel has straight cut teeth too its brand new and matched the original. the starter also has straight teeth. I'm just gonna run a wet starter. It may be a pain to install it but it will work. So what's up? Who's goin to the lake/river.

I may be at the lake later today. Looking at another boat today also. Nordie wants to go Monday too. Gonna be a madhouse out there tomorrow.

« **Reply #26 on:** May 22, 2009, 11:30:17 AM »

I must have had some really old starters because in order to get the bendix back in, either the engine would kick it back in or when it was off the starter guy would hit the teeth against a wire wheel and it would pop back in. My starters didnt have any type of spring that i remember but I think I do remember it being some type of ratcheting type o' thing. Thats just what happened to me anyways.

« **Reply #27 on:** May 22, 2009, 11:39:17 AM »

Quote from: HDriderTH on May 22, 2009, 11:13:37 AM

I may be at the lake later today. Looking at another boat today also. Nordie wants to go Monday too. Gonna be a madhouse out there tomorrow.

nice! if u go 2 the lake sat-mon give me a call and we can meet up. 738-8518 mike

« **Reply #28 on:** May 27, 2009, 06:52:35 AM »

Just to give updates, moved the starter and it worked perfectly all weekend. The lake was a bit choppy but Saturday night was nice and Sunday was ok monday was perfect! Thanks for all your help. Mike

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