SoCal Jet Boats
Tech Talk => Engine Mechanical / Electrical => Topic started by: UltraRed on February 24, 2011, 09:23:24 PM
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Hey guys. First off thanks for the wealth of information i have already collected. So i have a few questions. I have a pair of BBF 460 Rewarder TT headers and the finish is getting kinda corroded/rusted. I hope to re-due the boat in red and white before the summer starts. Am i able to have the headers powder coated? The motor is bone stock out of a I wanna say 86 or so F350. The heads are stock dove-A's. What can be done on the cheap to add a little extra go to it. Maybe a cam, but what can i get away with? I have a nice set of polished/chrome Holley 600 something or the other in the garage and was looking at going to a tunnel ram if possible with those. Also can a tunnel ram be powder coated. Any help would be appreciated.....
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As for the Ford performance questions, I'll leave that to the Ford guys.
I don't think anyone will powder coath the headers due to the heat, but they can be ceramic coated.
The intake manifold can be powder coated without concern.
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Welcome,
One of the Ford guys you can talk to would be "Lakesonly", he's helped with my Ford questions. PM him and he'll get back to you pretty quick. As for the headers, ceramic coat them and like crewchief said powdercoating the intake would work fine as well.
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Had my intake polished then powder coated clear....
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... i have a few questions. The motor is bone stock out of a I wanna say 86 or so F350. The heads are stock dove-A's. What can be done on the cheap to add a little extra go to it. Maybe a cam, but what can i get away with? I have a nice set of polished/chrome Holley 600 something or the other in the garage and was looking at going to a tunnel ram if possible with those. Also can a tunnel ram be powder coated. Any help would be appreciated.....
D0VE heads came primarily on 1970 and 1971 model vehicles, the never came on 1986 engines of any kind. Double check the block casting number and the cylinder head casting numbers, because we cannot offer adivce if we don't haveany idea of exactly what you have for engine components.
The cylinder head casting numbers are located on the outside of the head, along the valve cover mounting rail and between the 3rd and 4th exhaust ports. The are visible simply by looking at the outside of the engine. You should be able to find a cast-in alphanumeric number, possibly one of the following:
- C8VE-E
- C9VE-A
- D0VE-A
- D0VE-C
- D2VE-AA
- D3VE-A2A
Or, it may appear similar to one of the above numbers but a little different (there are more casting numbers than the common ones I have noted).
The block casting number is located on the ouside of the engine, at the rear of the cylinder bank, behind the starter motor and reads vertically. There, you should be able to find a cast-in alphanumeric number, possibly one of the following:
- C8VE-B
- C9VE-B
- D0VE-A
- D1VE-A2B
- D9TE-AB
Or, it may appear similar to one of the above numbers but a little different.
Two Holley 600's can be made to work decently on a tunnel ram.
LO
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Two 750's can work very well also!
Need a tunnel Ram?
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi673.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fvv95%2FIrrebel%2FMoo%2520build%2FP4110097.jpg&hash=faef69ffef475bf8d8e4f388238a2f7edad11d35)
Ray
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Hey guys thanks for the responses. Early last season I bought the boat, 1976 Kona Makai. Got into a race with my brother and his 455 and really messed up the motor :banghead:. Not a clue what kind of RPM i was doing as i never looked down and never lifted the pedal. Had to win obviously lost.Well had a friend with a truck that had a 460 in it. Told me i can have it for free if i help him part out and scrap out the rest of the truck. Well of course he had a deal. Plus he had a backhoe so we pulled the blowin motor out dropped the other one in and i was able to finish out the season. Dont know where he moved to so cant get a hold of him... as he would possibly be the key to info needed.
Lakesonly: I get home from work around 6:30 tonight. I will check the head and block casting numbers so you can give me some advice or your opinion
IRRebel: Actually yes i do... PM me a price. I need to find out whats going on with the block and heads deal but let me know
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http://www.reincarnation-automotive.com/casting-numbers-descriptions-1-index.html (http://www.reincarnation-automotive.com/casting-numbers-descriptions-1-index.html)
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Alright got some numbers. May end up need a lot of help.
Block : D9TE-1B
Left Head : C8VE-E
Right Head : DOVE-A
Your Mom: Thanks for the casting number sheet. Looks like even though the heads are different castings they are basically the same?
LakesOnly: What do make of this random build.... haha
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I'll let Paul intervene on the head mismatch. All I can say is WOW!, and it RAN????
I'll PM you on your choice of a bare, new T/R or the ready to run one you see in the pics, carbs and all.
Once Paul is done with you, I have a set of ported and polished PI heads and a set of untouched C9's that
may work for what you are doing.
Ray
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Yea she ran for most of last season this way. :screwy:
Any case i would like to change / fix things before the start of this one. Don't really need to piece together a motor mid season again...
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Alright got some numbers. May end up need a lot of help.
Block : D9TE-1B
Left Head : C8VE-E
Right Head : DOVE-A
Fortunately in this particular case, the cylinder head casting numbers (C8VE & D0VE) designate different year model cylinder heads but technically they are dimensionally the same overall design and therefore suitable to be run alongside each other. The heads are the same and your engine won't know the difference.
Sooooo, this means the late model 1986 F350 had its cylinder heads swapped out for early-style (1968-1970) BBF heads. That's a good thing. :) By doing that, the 1986 engine's compression ratio jumped from 7.7:1 to about 9:1. This is to your advantage over the D3VE heads you are considering in the other thread, because those D3 heads will reduce your 1986 engine's compression ratio back down to 7.7:1. Keep the C8VE/D0VE head swap on the boat. You scored. 8)
LO
p.s. If you want to split hairs, it might be said that it would be better to invest in port work on those early-style heads than it would be to invest in ported D3 heads. Either head can make power, but how you get that power is different depending on which head you start with. The early-style heads do give you more room to grow.
Did you use a jet boat oil pan? Or the F350 oil pan?
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So from what im reading the heads are identical but different years and im not as bad off as i thought i was. (sigh of relief). What am i looking at $$$ estimate wise to have heads redone (port and polish) and my current performer intake completed to match. After that would i want to have a bigger cam put in and also a different carb...
Not sure about the pan. Is there a performance difference between a truck pan and Jet pan?
Again thanks for your help guys this really appreciated.
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So from what im reading the heads are identical but different years and im not as bad off as i thought i was. (sigh of relief). What am i looking at $$$ estimate wise to have heads redone (port and polish) and my current performer intake completed to match. After that would i want to have a bigger cam put in and also a different carb...
Not sure about the pan. Is there a performance difference between a truck pan and Jet pan?
Again thanks for your help guys this really appreciated.
In it's current combination, your engine could benefit from upgrades other than ported heads which would give it more power than the ported heads alone..and also cost less than the ported heads. Ported heads, however, could offer up more power overall and in the big picture of things. Call for details and pricing, if you're really interested.
The jet boat pans hold a lot more oil (10 quarts typical) and are more geared toward the application.
LO
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With the proliferation of aluminum heads on the market, it is seldom a cost effective plan to rebuild a set of ANYTHING stock heads, rather than replace. ANY of the replacement heads will out flow any stocker heads even if the stockers are ported (that last statement is not true for stock port sized, street replacement, entry level heads, but then again, who wants those?). We just had a customer insist on rebuilding a set of the Super Cobra Jet heads: new valves, thick wall bronze guides, springs, retainers, locks, surface, bake, blast, magnaflux, street/strip port, 5 angle competition valve job with back cuts, and unshroud the chambers for better flow around the valve. The cost was more than Pro-Comp heads (with my choice of good quality American-made parts), they flowed 35cfm less than the aluminums on the intakes and still weighed 30+ pounds more too. We flowed a pair of D2VE heads with big valves and street/strip porting for a comparison too, they flowed only about 20 cfm less than the ported Super Cobra Jets! In my opinion not worth the cash to modify any of them. BUT!!!! Never buy complete heads of any brand from any factory unless they are specifically sold for marine use!! Have a REPUTABLE boat oriented machine shop select the proper combination of quality marine compatible parts. The valve seat widths, and guide clearances will be different from auto (even race) specs, those will have to be modified from as delivered car specs. The proper spring pressures are very different too. Sell your Super Cobra-Jet heads to a collector, I wouldn't spend a dime on them. For what those guys will pay, you can probably have a set of much better performing new aluminum heads with parts for $400.00 or so! Whatever you spend on parts for your old heads can go for parts on new heads too. The aforementioned post reflects my opinion, one that has been formulated from 40 years in the boat oriented machine shop industry. I could be wrong. TIMINATOR