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Tech Talk => Engine Mechanical / Electrical => Topic started by: koby686 on August 13, 2016, 08:34:30 PM
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Im putting a 125 shot on my 460 and want to know if i will be safe running it on straight 91 pump gas. New to the whole spray deal so i have been reading around. From what i have read so far the most important thing is to pull 2 degrees of timing per 50HP Shot. Anything else thats important that i should know please feel free to chime in and teach me ; )
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Make sure to pull the timing out, make sure your fuel system is adequate, and don't hit the button till your WOT. 125's are pretty forgiving... you should be fine on 91 as long as your engine doesn't have a bunch of compression already. . Have fun.
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You may also want to close your spark plug gap up alil bit depending on your ignition setup... but I'm also full of shit alot!! Lol
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I'm at 10:1, ignition system is MSD, blaster 2 coil, 6AL box, plugs are currently gapped at 45.
Now question, if I retard 5 degrees of timing, and close the gap down on the plugs won't the boat run like shit when I don't make a pass with spray?
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More importantly, twll me about the fuel system on the boat. Thx
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And what are the jet sizes in the system. Plate or fogger, although I'm guessing a plate. And what are you setting the flowing fuel presure at ?
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Fuel pump is a Holley blue, right now I have it set at 6PSI, it's a plate I'll post the link to the kit I'm not sure which jets it came with maybe you can tell me.
https://m.summitracing.com/parts/nos-05001nos
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Free flow your fuel system before u do anything ..jm2c
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Fuel pump is a Holley blue, right now I have it set at 6PSI, it's a plate I'll post the link to the kit I'm not sure which jets it came with maybe you can tell me.
https://m.summitracing.com/parts/nos-05001nos
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Ok it don't have changeable jets. It's pre set so void that question. Now is the holley blue fuel pump separate and only used for the Nitrous system or is it for both engine and the Nitrous system ???
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I'm sure the kit came with instructions, so set the fuel presure to the presure the instructions request.
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I'm running a 460, 9.8 compression timing locked out at 30 with a blue pump on a regulator at 7PSI. Digital box with autolite AR32s at 32. I hit a 125 at WOT and have had no problem what so ever. Just make sure you have a good look at your plugs to ensue you don't lean out nos has very little forgiveness. Good luck.
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Onthenos I was planning on running the same fuel pump to feed both is that a bad idea?
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I'm running a 460, 9.8 compression timing locked out at 30 with a blue pump on a regulator at 7PSI. Digital box with autolite AR32s at 32. I hit a 125 at WOT and have had no problem what so ever. Just make sure you have a good look at your plugs to ensue you don't lean out nos has very little forgiveness. Good luck.
are you running a seperate fuel tank for the Nos?
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Got the bottle mounted, gotta go get 4 nuts for the longer threaded studs and I'm going to install the plate and solenoids, I have not opened up the instructions yet but is mounting the solenoids a pain?
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The Holley blue should be enough for a125 shot. Just watch your timing and close up the plug gap. Mounting the solenoids and the micro switch doesn't take to long. Be sure to test the fuel solenoid, shut off the tank, arm the system run up to 3K and hit the micro switch. You should loose rpm few 100 at least. Just a good idea. Have fun.
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The Holley blue should be enough for a125 shot. Just watch your timing and close up the plug gap. Mounting the solenoids and the micro switch doesn't take to long. Be sure to test the fuel solenoid, shut off the tank, arm the system run up to 3K and hit the micro switch. You should loose rpm few 100 at least. Just a good idea. Have fun.
sounds good thank you for the help, my biggest concern is won't the boat run like shit with the timing retarted and the plug gap closed when I'm not running it on the bottle?
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Timing retard box .... I got the cheap one. But it works
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So you just retard it from the dial when your gonna make a pass on the bottle?
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Yep ... I just have to remember lol
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Haha, what about the plug gap?
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If any of you are fueling the nitrous from the motor is running off do you have any pictures of how you T'd into the fuel line?
Better yet who lives near Santa Clarita and wants to help me I got cold beers waiting to be drinkin..
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I live in Santa Clarita area, how can I help
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Again, what's the fuel psi per the instructions? It's not a good idea to use a Holley blue for both engine and nitrous but Ehhh people do it. The problem is that if your supply isn't enough volume then your gonna hurt it aka lean it out and when that happens you'll blame the Nitrous system because you'll have binoculars out of your pistons.
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On my set up I run 8 pounds of fuel pressure carbureted motor are usually around there and the fuel pump should handle the horsepower of the motor and the nitrous together for the flow fuel you could just add a sacred fuel pump that's activate it when you arm the system
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I do run a single fuel pump, although it's a Magnafuel pro 500 and will support 2000 HP. Pumps 28 psi flowing presure. Also has -10 fuel fitting at bottom rear of the fuel tanks and -10 fuel line at the way to the regulators. Fuel support is key.
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I live in Santa Clarita area, how can I help
I'm off Soledad and shadow pines are you close to me? If you know how to hook it all up I would love some help so I don't fuck anything up.
Onthenos, I'm going to order the MSD retard box with dial to retard the timing, going to get a 1 gallon fuel cell and the Holley black to run my main fuel tank and I'll put the blue on the 1 gallon.
I'll run c16 in the 1 gallon and do if the right way. Good idea? Rather spend another $400 and so it the right way then risk messing up my new engine.
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Can stop by after work. Pm your #
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Can stop by after work. Pm your #
thank you brother 818 620 4461 the rest of the parts should be here wensday
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Again, what's the fuel psi per the instructions? It's not a good idea to use a Holley blue for both engine and nitrous but Ehhh people do it. The problem is that if your supply isn't enough volume then your gonna hurt it aka lean it out and when that happens you'll blame the Nitrous system because you'll have binoculars out of your pistons.
Your right on the money... Good info
When I was setting up my system u were there to help me ...never had a issue 👍🏻
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Onthenos, the manual calls for 5-6 PSI. With the new Holley black I figure I'll take that and put it on the main tank and take the blue and let it feed the nitrous solenoid.
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Onthenos, the manual calls for 5-6 PSI. With the new Holley black I figure I'll take that and put it on the main tank and take the blue and let it feed the nitrous solenoid.
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The separate pump and 1 gal tank is a good route. I did that Simalar deal on a bbc street car that was a pump gas deal with a fogger.
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Your right on the money... Good info
When I was setting up my system u were there to help me ...never had a issue 👍🏻
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Thanks brother. I've torn some parts up learning what not to do forsure lol.
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Remember to always recheck your timming, flowing fuel psi and bottle presure. Be consistent with them. They all are a tune up together. I've many times tested cars in park, engine running. 3k rpm and activate the button, just a touch. Slow gain is fat, super snappy is lean. But there is a quick Rev the years of nitrous usage you'll know it's right. Although I still do the double checking exc.
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NOS and other brands sell a adjustable fuel presure saftey switch. If your fuel psi gets too low the Nitrous won't turn on. Very good 40.00 investment
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Perfect brother thank you for all the help I'm going to order that as well 👌🏼
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Cant go wrong with the standalone setup.
Question, is your engine just a stock 460?
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Is anyone running Hyperuectic pistons on bottle?
I have these would it be a bad idea to spray a 125 shot with them
https://m.summitracing.com/parts/uem-kb137ktm-std
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Other then the Pistons and roller cam it's pretty much stock. It's all new I just finished it in May 17 hours on engine so far. Ignition is MSD
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Is anyone running Hyperuectic pistons on bottle?
I have these would it be a bad idea to spray a 125 shot with them
https://m.summitracing.com/parts/uem-kb137ktm-std
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Should be fine. with that small of a shot.
Just set you flowing fuel pressure and you should be good to go.
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Other then the Pistons and roller cam it's pretty much stock. It's all new I just finished it in May 17 hours on engine so far. Ignition is MSD
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remember what your ring gap was?
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We set it at whatever the instructions said to on a boat I can find out
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I called Keith black they said they wouldn't recommend running anything over a 50 shot on those Pistons.
Fuck...
From the excitement I ripped the box apart and installed the bottle already.
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I wouldn't run hypers on a golf cart.
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Hahaha fuck
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As long as they don't detonate or experience reversion, they're ok, but nitrous?
No.
They are super brittle.
They'll last forever in a car.
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I've known people that have done hyp pistons with 150 shots, but the WHEN factor will suprise you sooner or later.
WHEN- when it takes the Pistons out and goes to the piston gods.
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I rather play it safe and not risk it. I was out of a boat all last year because the motor Grenaded, so I don't want to do it again. Especially since I did it from the block up this time. I Should have spent the extra coin on forged but was already in deep and wasn't seeing an end to the build at the time.
Oh well live and learn. Who wants to buy a brand new NOS kit, ha!
Or trade for split bowl Berk.
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218k miles on my stock gm hyper pistons. Opened up gap and replaced the rings.
I'm on my 13th 10 pound bottle. No issues yet. 150 shot
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218k miles on my stock gm hyper pistons. Opened up gap and replaced the rings.
I'm on my 13th 10 pound bottle. No issues yet. 150 shot
Steve which Pistons are you running in your boat?
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Steve which Pistons are you running in your boat?
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Stock GM hypereutectic pistons. Completely stock lower end with arp rod bolts
Different animal though. I'm running a LS engine
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Stock GM hypereutectic pistons. Completely stock lower end with arp rod bolts
Different animal though. I'm running a LS engine
yeah no doubt.
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Fwiw I think a small shot like a 125 would be fine. But I'm not an expert
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🙈🙈🙈
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So long as your fuel delivery is good and you pull timing
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A few things to do when running NOS
1. Make sure your engine is built to handle the shot you plan to run.
2. Make sure you are using the proper size jets and spread.
3. Make sure you have correct spark plugs and the gap is set for NOS.
4. Use a flow gauge to flow your fuel. Remember heat will change the gauge reading on your flow gauge. Check it every couple times you use it. Regulators move and filters change flow rates.
5. Timing is very important most pull two degrees per 50 hp of shot. I'm pulling more then that for my setup. Make sure your retard is working without NOS.
6. Make sure your fuel fits the needs of your compression and shot size.
I would never tell anyone there setup would be good for a shot of any size. There is so much that goes into the decision for a setup with Nos. it's not that I would not like to help guys it's because I would not be able to sleep. I small mistake and thing go bad quick even with good info. NOS done right is pretty safe but any type adders are tough on equipment in large doses.
**** don't take short cuts
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A few things to do when running NOS
1. Make sure your engine is built to handle the shot you plan to run.
2. Make sure you are using the proper size jets and spread.
3. Make sure you have correct spark plugs and the gap is set for NOS.
4. Use a flow gauge to flow your fuel. Remember heat will change the gauge reading on your flow gauge. Check it every couple times you use it. Regulators move and filters change flow rates.
5. Timing is very important most pull two degrees per 50 hp of shot. I'm pulling more then that for my setup. Make sure your retard is working without NOS.
6. Make sure your fuel fits the needs of your compression and shot size.
I would never tell anyone there setup would be good for a shot of any size. There is so much that goes into the decision for a setup with Nos. it's not that I would not like to help guys it's because I would not be able to sleep. I small mistake and thing go bad quick even with good info. NOS done right is pretty safe but any type adders are tough on equipment in large doses.
**** don't take short cuts
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Very well said ....
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Thanks for the input Steve, Jim, onthenos, phill, 69kona and everyone else it's highly appreciated. I think I'm going to sell the NOS kit and not risk messing up my motor for an extra couple MPH since when I built it I did not have NOS or boost in mind so went with the cheaper route on Pistons, which looking back now I would spend the extra $600 to have them forged. All is good live and Learn!
It's Time to put money into the pump.
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Any pictures of the kit and a price?
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Power is in the pump
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Any pictures of the kit and a price?
The kit is brand new i opened the box took the bottle out cut open the packaging with the instructions in it and the rest stayed in. I paid $450 for it. I will take $400 got it on Saturday.
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This is the kit
https://m.summitracing.com/parts/nos-05001nos
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Thanks for the input Steve, Jim, onthenos, phill, 69kona and everyone else it's highly appreciated. I think I'm going to sell the NOS kit and not risk messing up my motor for an extra couple MPH since when I built it I did not have NOS or boost in mind so went with the cheaper route on Pistons, which looking back now I would spend the extra $600 to have them forged. All is good live and Learn!
It's Time to put money into the pump.
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Extra $600? Did you get the hypers for free?
I built two engines using hypereutectic pistons, one was a stock 454 used in a 1 ton dually, as far as I know, it's still pulling horses all over the country.
The second was a small block we used in the race boat for testing. When that motor let go at about 5,500 rpm, it took out everything.
Pistons literally exploded, killed the crank, block, cam, heads rods, there was nothing left.
Never again in a high performance application. I "saved" $180 over forged. It cost a complete motor.
Be nice to it, keep it tuned correctly and it will likely run forever.
JMHO
GT
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I paid $500 for these Pistons I belive the forged ones we were looking at were double the price.
Glen didn't you say you wouldn't put hypers In a golf cart haha that ole dually is a bit bigger 😉
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Power is in the pump
👍👍👍👍
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I paid $500 for these Pistons I belive the forged ones we were looking at were double the price.
Glen didn't you say you wouldn't put hypers In a golf cart haha that ole dually is a bit bigger 😉
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Wouldn't put them in a golf cart knowing what I know now.
I just bought a set of Mahle forged 496 pistons for $692 shipped to my door. Set of 9.
Rings sold separately, but Spiro locks and pins included.
FWIW
GT
GT
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I wish I had known. I know the ones we were looking at were in the $1200 range. Gotta remember it's a ford so everything is double the price of Chevy..
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Just checked, 460 Mahle forged pistons, $713 with iron rings....
FWIW
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Glen your making it harder for me knowing I could have spent $200 more hahaha..
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I seriously can't believe you guys all just scared this guy bad enough to sell his new nitrous kit, I understand the concerns if it was a big kit but we're talking about a 125 shot here, I'd have no problem running that on ONE pump , backing out timing and go for it!! I didn't plumb 2 fuel systems to my old drag car till I put 300 pills in my plate... I ran a 175 off the mechanical holley hi volume with a cast piston 461 forever and never hurt it!! To each their own I guess... good luck..
Your friendly local v-drive owner
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I 2nd that.....
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I seriously can't believe you guys all just scared this guy bad enough to sell his new nitrous kit, I understand the concerns if it was a big kit but we're talking about a 125 shot here, I'd have no problem running that on ONE pump , backing out timing and go for it!! I didn't plumb 2 fuel systems to my old drag car till I put 300 pills in my plate... I ran a 175 off the mechanical holley hi volume with a cast piston 461 forever and never hurt it!! To each their own I guess... good luck..
Your friendly local v-drive owner
A car is a completely different animal all together. Nice warm cylinder temperatures, short bursts under acceleration.
It only takes one missed step or problem and those pistons will be in the pan.
Did you know you can break a hyper piston skirt with your bare hand?
Even the manufacturer said 50hp max.
Not warning him would have been a disservice.
JMHO.
koby, if I caused you disappointment, I totally apologize. I was just telling you what I would or would not do.
GT
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Glen not at all, I'm glad you guys said what you said. I would have been disappointed if my 6k engine took a shit just because I hit with with some spray. Rather know it's turn key and enjoy it having to worry about my boat all last summer before the engine took a shit took the fun out of going for me. M
So thank you guys for the heads up, rather be safe then sorry to gain 3-5 MPH
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👍👍👍
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