SoCal Jet Boats
Tech Talk => Engine Mechanical / Electrical => Topic started by: vwagon13 on November 07, 2015, 07:39:10 PM
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Let's hear about your Oldsmobile motors. What you've done to it, what you had done to it. And horsepower,how much you think they're putting out. Thanks!
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10.25:1 461 fully oil restricted bottom end massaged stock rotating assembly mains are studded, ka heads ported polished heat risers filled oil drains opened up, Offy tunnel ram 2 660s and I haven't picked out a cam yet or made a decision on a gear drive or chain
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[attachimg=1]
This Olds had seen better days.
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1,000,000 horsepower.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/16/Drevil_million_dollars.jpg)
10:1 tunnel ram with 2 750 double pumpers, Mondello JM 25-28 cam. Had it built 20 years ago before I knew about all the mods that should be done.
Still runs good. The only problem is extended runs at high RPM. Too much oil in the valve covers and blow-by, and oil spills out of the breathers, lands on the headers and catches fire. Good times.
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Mines around 9-9.5:1 balanced rotating gear forged Pistons ported Ka heads oft tunnel ram with 660s setup by the carbshop clay smith cam. Guy who built it estimated 400-425hp. Gets my heavy hallett up to 68mph
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Oh and last winter I did the external oil drain back lines. They work Bitchin. No more squirtin oil out of the puke tank. No oil mods internally and a high volume oil pump
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10.5 to 1 Srp pistons. Oil mods on heads and block for drain back . ka heads ported and flow benched with a 3 angle valve job . Had rotating assembly balanced. I was cheap on the rods and used stock rods but had them shot peened and resized . Went with a Erson cam JB 100 has a nice lope to it ... HP?
Guessing 550 or so . I've had pretty good luck with the 455 olds. The one I have in my other boat is going on 9 years . I believe they stay together and live a happy life if bearing clearness is set up right and line bore is checked.
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Complete Mondello built engine some time back in the 90s I believe. 461". Tunnel with 2 600s. All the oil mods. Worked bottom end. Ported heads. Guessing somewhere in the 475-525hp range. It sure makes a lot of noise. Oh, and it's for sale too.
Garrett
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10.5 to 1 Srp pistons. Oil mods on heads and block for drain back . ka heads ported and flow benched with a 3 angle valve job . Had rotating assembly balanced. I was cheap on the rods and used stock rods but had them shot peened and resized . Went with a Erson cam JB 100 has a nice lope to it ... HP?
Guessing 550 or so . I've had pretty good luck with the 455 olds. The one I have in my other boat is going on 9 years . I believe they stay together and live a happy life if bearing clearness is set up right and line bore is checked.
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Phuck I really want some of those valve covers
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Phuck I really want some of those valve covers
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I was gonna say the same thing. Where can I find those?
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E-bay#351571408847. $160 w/$25 shipping. No holes.
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Yup eBay but I wouldn't get the ones speed master for 110 unless your u straighten and make flat again . The set for 160 is better quality
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You know its kinda funny: Those v/c's, yank that ugly oil fill tube off,add some sweet breathers w/ an lines to a puke tank or to header fittings.Look'n badazz, wouldn't recognize it as an Olds.
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This is my other olds forged trw pistons 9to1compression balanced the rotating assembly and a few oil mods going on 9 years just freshen it up with bearings and rings still like new like ... This one I squeeze 125 shot of nos
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That's one bad puppy😨. Maybe 600+ on the bottle?
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10 hrs new 461 main oil mods 290 comp forged speed pro slugs stock rods restricted push rods offy 360 750 dp holly 9.5 or so on k heads not sure on the power but it sure is fun :)
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10 hrs new 461 main oil mods 290 comp forged speed pro slugs stock rods restricted push rods offy 360 750 dp holly 9.5 or so on k heads not sure on the power but it sure is fun :)
Nice.. I bet it runs hard. That intake-manifold is a good choice lots of torque
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Yeaah and the bottom looks good to LOLLOL😲
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Nice.. I bet it runs hard. That intake-manifold is a good choice lots of torque
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haa oops they are c heads and yea the bottoms nice lol I strangely have no motor pics yet..... I'm digging this thread tho step up guys!
Yeaah and the bottom looks good to LOLLOL😲
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This is one of our buddy Jonnys motor that he got done ... I want the aluminum heads off it lol $...
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This is one of our buddy Jonnys motor that he got done ... I want the aluminum heads off it lol $...
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dayum :p
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No more olds guy's around? Lol
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I've seen a whole bunch of tunnel rams. There too too cool look'n. Do they really "work" at 3/4500rpm? ! Not chopp'n T/Rams, hell I love um'. But they spendy specialy polished, an I gotta have'm polished. BTW, oil and . filters, what kinds do . you guys use? What kinds won't you use? And spark plugs, what to use and does anybody "index" them any more? Is there a need to with new plugs?
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Napa silver filter .... 20/50wt Napa brand oil
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I run a k and n 2003 filter with 50wt oil. I think my plugs are auto lite 85s gapped at .30ish
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I'll be using Valvoline Syn. 20-50 Racing after break in,with a WIX-51258. Supposed to be good set up. If there is one 😂😖🔫
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I'll be breaking it in on lucas 30wt break in and then running on lucas 50 plus
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Acdelco plugs 45rs gapped at .045...
I got a question do people really index plugs ? I don't see what it matters which way it faces and will I see any performance gains?
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Acdelco plugs 45rs gapped at .045...
I got a question do people really index plugs ? I don't see what it matters which way it faces and will I see any performance gains?
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In many cases the plugs are indexed for increased electrode clearances. From either pistons or valves. Seems silly, but think about it.
Until you're spinning 7k rpm, you would never see a difference in performance.
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...do people really index plugs ? I don't see what it matters which way it faces and will I see any performance gains?
Most do not because it takes too long to change plugs between rounds. One reason people index plugs is excessive piston domes, while trying to maximize compression ratio, can hit the spark plug ground strap.
An old theory for indexing spark plugs is that it begins the flame front propagation near the exhaust valve, the hottest part of the combustion chamber. Modern combustion chambers and porting techniques induce turbulence into the airflow as well as some swirl. This swirl and turbulent motion continues into the combustion chamber where it is compounded by quench. The result is a lot of motion of the air/fuel mixture as the piston approaches TDC. In test engines, with cameras installed in windows to observe the combustion process, a combustion chamber with a lot of mixture motion has a much faster and more complete burn rate. Resistance to detonation increases and shrouding of the spark kernel, by the ground strap becomes less of an issue.
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Thanks Gt and Flusher u guys have too much knowledge..:lol thanks for sharing some of it 👏👍
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I remember yrs ago walking thru Raisin City drag-strip. See'n upside-down egg cartons w/sparkplug sticking thru them. Different colored washers on um,all numbered for specific cylinders. Indexed. I wonder how important it is now w/multiple grounds. I'm thinking I'll try it out next time in my ol'red truck,probably can't tell,all that work up in smoke,POOOF.
Guys thank you for all your shared info,really,Thanks!
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I've seen a whole bunch of tunnel rams. There too too cool look'n. Do they really "work" at 3/4500rpm? ! Not chopp'n T/Rams, hell I love um'. But they spendy specialy polished, an I gotta have'm polished. BTW, oil and . filters, what kinds do . you guys use? What kinds won't you use? And spark plugs, what to use and does anybody "index" them any more? Is there a need to with new plugs?
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How many of u guys are running tunnel Rams on your olds? What carbs are u running ?
I have yet to run my olds I just built that I put a tunnel ram on it with 2 600 holleys vac secondary's. Only to break in cam and tune it on trailer.... Motor should Make decent power to 5500rpm or so will the tunnel ram work out ?
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I'm running the tunnel ram with 2 660 center squirters the old engine only turned 4800 with logs but the engine was very responsive from 3000 up
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Tunnel ram on an Olds is kinda like lipstick on a pig or a whale tale spoiler on a Civic ain't it? >:D
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All in the eye of the beholder my friend
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This is good reading for us old guys.....OLDS guys that is. That small-block on the cover dyno's at almost 800horse at 9000rpm....not bad for a "pig".
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Good book ...
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Roughly what does a complete, running engine go for? 461" Mondello built, tunnel with 2 holley 600s. Unknown hours but cylinders still look good and runs great.
Garrett
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2 yrs ago carb to pan,$2900.Single 850 on Torker,k heads,some oil mods, runs excellent.
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So maybe 2k for my engine?
Garrett
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http:// Idk. I thought I overpaid. He wouldn't budge on $. It sound'd stout and he pulled it. That complete tunnel ram's sweet an pricey.
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Roughly what does a complete, running engine go for? 461" Mondello built, tunnel with 2 holley 600s. Unknown hours but cylinders still look good and runs great.
Garrett
Don't want to be a buzz kill, but I wouldn't say much. "Unknowns" aren't good. I'm not saying it isn't a great running motor. Even though it's built by mondello, that "unknown" comes into play.
Just my .02, and by no means am I trying to bring you down.
If the motor is running tight, why are you selling it?
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Don't want to be a buzz kill, but I wouldn't say much. "Unknowns" aren't good. I'm not saying it isn't a great running motor. Even though it's built by mondello, that "unknown" comes into play.
Just my .02, and by no means am I trying to bring you down.
If the motor is running tight, why are you selling it?
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I'm trying to get rid of the whole boat. Trying to get into a winger and going turbo LS. If I can sell the engine for a decent price I'll keep my complete B1 pump and trash the hull and trailer.
Garrett
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Dang. Tough choice...
Maybe pull the pump, slap a stock Berkeley in it and sell it complete?
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Dang. Tough choice...
Maybe pull the pump, slap a stock Berkeley in it and sell it complete?
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You must not know my boat and trailer's history.
Garrett
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You must not know my boat and trailer's history.
Garrett
No I don't. Well hopefully all works out for you brother!
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Sorry for the late reply. Writing this from MRI doctors office.
Got a '75 Glasstron Carlson CV21, nodded Berk. The motor has taken a long time but hope to break her in on a stand. '70 BBO, 11.93:1, Diamond custom 1.1cc relief forged pistons, Eagle H beam rods, Dick Miller billet mains 1-4, studded with 5 cap halo, Lunati hyd-roller 328/.620", gear to gear , Modified Procomp heads with Farreia SS 2.07 intake, 1.71 exh. Heads are studded with cometic MLS gaskets. Harland Sharp roller rockers, 3/8 rods. Victor intake each port opened 1/4" around to match head ports. 1050 Dominator on top. MSD, 12 qt. Pan with all oil mods less drain back lines.
All waiting on me to get better.
I'll put up some pics when I get home.
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Get well soon chrisx2
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Nice looking forward to seeing
the build!
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Sorry get well first ....was drooling over over your build lol
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I'll post pics shortly. She's purdy.
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Here's a couple
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more
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more
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Beautiful build fella,bitch'n! Couple'a questions, what # Harlan sharp rockers? What cam gears (straight cut) are you using? Your intake had to be opened up 1/4" all around for heads? You didn't open up the oil drains on the blocks deck surface(4 corner holes), that wasn't to important to you? I only ask that because ijdk..... thanks for info. Keep it up!👌👍👍👍
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The mains are all matched @.0031", with thread in oil restrictions, the block returns are opened as much as I can. The cam gears are Proform if I'm correct. I had a comparable engine in my '76 Cutlass with 400hp fogged. It'd carry the fronts past the 60' to lay out a 9.73@141.
I've got the stringers out for replacement along with a new floor. I made a new wiring harness with all weatherpac connectors. Auto meter Phantom II gauges are on the shelf. The Berk JE is rebuilt, new shaft, bearings, bushings, inducer, SS loader, hydraulic place diverter. I haven't ordered an impeller yet, figuring bronze A cut. Still have a shit load of work to do, if I can physically do it.
I'm having some fucked up medical situation going on. Disc compression issues pushing on my spinal cord causing tremors and loss of fine motor skills in my right hand and leg, then two weeks ago I slipped on the ice and fell 3'. On impact it drove my upper arm bone (humerus) into the shoulder socket and partially tearing the rotator cuff. Damnable luck, if it was raining pussies I'd get hit with a dick.
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The rockers are S5003. Everyone, Dick Miller Racing, Bill Travato Racing, Mondello, all recommend the S5003. I also run a vacuum pump on it to keep the crankcase around 8"hg, helps seal the rings and found that on a dyno it adds 10-15hp.
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Just got back from Dr's office, fucking fully torn rotator cuff, surgery next Thursday. I can't win for losing. Well, this project just got its timeline pushed back.
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On the cast iron heads how much can you open up the oil drain back holes
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Not much, I've been successful opening about 2mm. Gotta be careful with cast iron though, the thermal expansion in those areas is not a lot; however, if you keep it cool <160 degrees, there's no problem. In a car (closed cooling system) temps are higher but even throughout, not so much in marine systems.
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Putting in the external drain lines you can make the holes bigger than you will ever need.
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Hope'n these load:
The block pic shows corner drains "eased "and enlarged to promote drain back.
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Not much, I've been successful opening about 2mm. Gotta be careful with cast iron though, the thermal expansion in those areas is not a lot; however, if you keep it cool <160 degrees, there's no problem. In a car (closed cooling system) temps are higher but even throughout, not so much in marine systems.
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Chrissx2, you have to 'splain that to me cause you lost me at "Not much". Thanks! 😔
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Judging by your pics, you only "relieved" the entrance to the head return galleries, I could not discern if you actually increased the diameter of the port all the way through. The oil return gallery passes within 1/2" of the heads cooling jacket. If one has patience, a good die grinder and assorted carbide bits, you can enlarge the whole port by a full 2mm. The mild deburring around the lifter bores is ok. Did you clean up the openings over the cam tunnel, or really enlarge the forward drain at the front of the block? Restricting the the oil passage in the pushrods is critical also. The stock 5qt pan doesn't help the issue either.
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I would think just a clean up around the return holes would help oil return ..... The return lines from the heads to bottom end are the ticket to fast oil return .....
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Cleanup around the hole doesn't get the oil through the passage faster at all. The drain back lines WILL correct all drain back issues. With my motor sitting on the stand, it'd be a cinch for me to add the lines, hard for guys with it in the hole. Gotta remember one key thing here, once you drill, tap and install the fitting in the head for line connection, you've now got a "left head or right head" situation created. Not really a problem, but, it does make distinct left or right designators.
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Cleanup around the hole doesn't get the oil through the passage faster at all. The drain back lines WILL correct all drain back issues. With my motor sitting on the stand, it'd be a cinch for me to add the lines, hard for guys with it in the hole. Gotta remember one key thing here, once you drill, tap and install the fitting in the head for line connection, you've now got a "left head or right head" situation created. Not really a problem, but, it does make distinct left or right designators.
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Or just make longer return lines lol,
But in all seriousness hurry up, get and better so we can see your motor running!
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Hell, I'll only be down one arm, there's much I can try to get done with the good arm, like drink a lil' shine, and....and...drink a lil' more shine and.............
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And when you drink enough you'll figure ideas to accomplish 2 arm jobs with just 1
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Sounds like you got your ducks all in a line bro! I'm thinking the Hot Boat article from years back said if you've addressed all the oil restrictions/issues you prolly don't need the oil lines. I think main issue w/ lines is the placement of the pan drains. Exactly,exactly next to a main bearing "saddle" is where it needs be. Even witth a good windage tray there is so much ag
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Boy I'm not sure what happened, but there is so much education going on that their effectiveness would be in question. And it wouldn't take too much at all to plug those lines. I'm not saying they don't work, they are a good idea though.
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More power an extremely stiff gin and tonic is sufficing to assist me currently on the south-paw issue I currently have. The oil line return bungs on the pan are an issue to me now. Once it's there it's there. Damn! Time to switch to shine to figger this one.
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'Course, I'm running a vacuum pump with a puke tank, you guys aren't. Hell, run what I brung and hope I brung 'nuff.
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That's agitation,not education,damn speak to text.
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'Course, I'm running a vacuum pump with a puke tank, you guys aren't. Hell, run what I brung and hope I brung 'nuff.
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How 'bout a pic of that pump please?
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Gimme a lil' bit. I gotta walk over to the in laws, pull those parts from the cabinet, mock them back up on the engine, take a picture, then put it all back away in the parts cabinet. Or would you be satisfied with my parts set out next to the engine and a picture taken?
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Here's some of the halo and caps installed.
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A very good forum to gain extremely reliable info is realoldspower.com. Bill Travato, Dick & Andy Miller, and current Mondello personnel, and Rocket Racing are there often to give great feedback and help.
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Ok VW, here's the vac. pump bolted on. It'll only attach to the port/left cylinder head.
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Here's a few more of how this endeavor. Parts supply.... Hydraulic place-diverter lines, SS shaft, inducer, SS loader, cabinet-o-parts etc.
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Chrissx2......thats quite a project u got there. Looks like a 2 arm,2 winter job to me. Sorry for the pun there. Get well soon would you,u need too,lol. Couple'a more questions,motor pics show a 2" carb spacer,have u used it and how u like 'um,any idea. And the boat pic. That's a nice hull. Purdy too,purdy big too an deep too.Any bottom work u gunna do to it to improve efficiency. And your pump,well you know, the more pump work the better all round. Carry-on boss,get well! Few pics of my problems to be determined,lol.
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I've not run the spacer bare, it was a 2" nitrous plate before; however, the higher velocity the air charge the better, but we suffer low end a little. You're setup looks like mine but mo' purdeeee! I remember seeing somewhere, I think one of the marine stores, fully jacketed BBO headers, in the 3k range, that's what I want. All under the hood sleeper.
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Ok .. how 'bout your trailers that haul your Olds's around,or your garage that hold 'um, or your tool bench/boxes when you just have too work on 'um,how about the "plumbing" to cool your BBO's. Let's see what ur using! BTW,Merry Christmas to all
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This was my Olds, sold it a few years ago. Owned it for 22 years.
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Gorgeous boat Hoofy. Real clean,that bellhousing is original Pacajet,using same polished one myself,rare piece anymore,looks so good man. What have you got now?
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Gorgeous boat Hoofy. Real clean,that bellhousing is original Pacajet,using same polished one myself,rare piece anymore,looks so good man. What have you got now?
Just my old stand by
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Sweeeet -V you got. Nice garage for it too.
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Ok here's my stuff: 30x60 shop,V/M trailer,toolboxs
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Just my old stand by
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I see,slumming wit the rest of us.....sh-t.
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Ok...E heads..and go!
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Ok...E heads..and go!
If ur talk'n Edelbrock heads,they (imo)worth every dime,lite weight,big valves,hard seats,raised portts,bigger oil returns,closed those dambably open ext. center ports,etc etc. Bolt on 50hp,probably more. They good!
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Just my old stand by
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I see,slumming wit the rest of us.....sh-t.
Your garage = bad to the bone!!!
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Just my old stand by
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I see,slumming wit the rest of us.....sh-t.
Your garage = bad to the bone!!!
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My good little olds, just bought a new cam, edelbrock heads, pistons, pushrods, roller rockers and more can't wait to get everything on her
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E stamped heads. Haha.
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Your garage = bad to the bone!!!
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Thank you sir,almost took all of 'um to have it built.... haha
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My good little olds, just bought a new cam, edelbrock heads, pistons, pushrods, roller rockers and more can't wait to get everything on her
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Looks mighty fine Kasper,how bout spec's and more pics?
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The rockers are S5003. Everyone, Dick Miller Racing, Bill Travato Racing, Mondello, all recommend the S5003. I also run a vacuum pump on it to keep the crankcase around 8"hg, helps seal the rings and found that on a dyno it adds 10-15hp.
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The pump sounds like good choice. You might want to check those rockers though if your cam has more than .540 lift. The 50016 or 5017 have offset p/rod cups,better movement all round. All depending on your build tho.
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Here's another pic of the motor it's stock right now but when it comes to build time I will post pics and specs of the build, can't wait it's gonna be fun, at 22 years old this will be my first 455 build with some help of course haha
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Sweeet dude, nicely done. Should be a strong Olds. I do like the blue fittings.....Is it just me,I cringe when there is 700lbs of cast iron being lifted by that type of carb plate aid. Hope ur done using it. Good luck with your build.
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The S5003 rockers are for A/M heads with non-stock diameter springs. The other sets are for setups such as Batten/Bulldog heads, or if you want to continue use of pedestal mount, or are using a 5/16" bolt. The funny thing is someone just released shaft mounted rockers for the BBO, like a Jesel system but not by them, and I already have these, damn.
I won't lift engines with carb plates, too dangerous, I use the cantilever with chains, much much easier to tilt and tug and adjust when going in or out. But hey, some people like them. Hell, I used to teach for Chrysler and 3 of there engines are lifted with intake lift plates, couldn't get a tech to use them though.
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Well..im just try'n ta help a fella bro out. Luck w/ build!
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Thanks, and good luck on your build. I'm down & out for awhile post surgery. I can only look at mine just sitting there.
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