SoCal Jet Boats

Tech Talk => Engine Mechanical / Electrical => Topic started by: Outlawmayhem on March 02, 2016, 10:34:07 PM

Title: Opinions on 521 build
Post by: Outlawmayhem on March 02, 2016, 10:34:07 PM
Tossing around the idea of building a 514 or 521 out of a 460 throughout the next year. Was looking at a few of the scat packages.  I don't plan on twisting the motor any farther than 5500 rpm if that. 

I'd be running c9ve heads with larger valves installed as well as port and Polish.  More than likely a weiand stealth intake with an 850 or larger carb.  Not sure on the cam yet. I'd be looking into an msd ignition and box for it as well.  Currently running a set of bassett headers dry. 

What do you think? Good build plan so far? Any opinions or recommendations?
Title: Re: Opinions on 521 build
Post by: GT Jets on March 02, 2016, 10:35:42 PM
Those 514's run.

Where's B-Rad?
Title: Re: Opinions on 521 build
Post by: Outlawmayhem on March 02, 2016, 10:37:38 PM
Those 514's run.

Where's B-Rad?

Yeah I've heard.
He's prolly asleep at this hour. 
Title: Re: Opinions on 521 build
Post by: Steve-O on March 03, 2016, 06:51:11 AM
Funny you should ask..

I'm building nearly the same motor you're describing. In fact we've already spoke to Scat about the rotating assembly, they seem to be the best. Looking to have them balance everything too.

Mine will be the 521 and we're building it to handle a blower. One thing that I'm sure is debatable are the heads. I've been steered away from aluminum because of the rapid heating and cooling boats encounter. I can see the logic behind it as a street dragster would want to dissipate heat quickly because of their mild cooling systems; a boat heats up really fast and then cools down really fast with the steady flow of cool water so cast seems like a good option; also weight is not a huge factor for me. Looking toward Cobra Jet style heads but have only seen aluminum versions. Again, just some logic I'm kicking around..

We are building this motor very stout but aiming for reliability. Looking to turn around 6300-6500 rpm's. Probably have a roller cam too.

I've heard good things about this setup, just a little pricey.


Steve-O
Title: Re: Opinions on 521 build
Post by: Outlawmayhem on March 03, 2016, 06:57:24 AM
Funny you should ask..

I'm building nearly the same motor you're describing. In fact we've already spoke to Scat about the rotating assembly, they seem to be the best. Looking to have them balance everything too.

Mine will be the 521 and we're building it to handle a blower. One thing that I'm sure is debatable are the heads. I've been steered away from aluminum because of the rapid heating and cooling boats encounter. I can see the logic behind it as a street dragster would want to dissipate heat quickly because of their mild cooling systems; a boat heats up really fast and then cools down really fast with the steady flow of cool water so cast seems like a good option; also weight is not a huge factor for me. Looking toward Cobra Jet style heads but have only seen aluminum versions. Again, just some logic I'm kicking around..

We are building this motor very stout but aiming for reliability. Looking to turn around 6300-6500 rpm's. Probably have a roller cam too.

I've heard good things about this setup, just a little pricey.


Steve-O

Im leaning more towards a 514.  I'm not sure if I'm going to do a full roller build or not.  I'd like to run it on pump gas tho. 
Title: Re: Opinions on 521 build
Post by: B.CR33CH on March 03, 2016, 07:33:23 AM

Im leaning more towards a 514.  I'm not sure if I'm going to do a full roller build or not.  I'd like to run it on pump gas tho.
my buddy has a 514 in his Miller and he loves it. George striegel from clay smith cams told me personally once they go over 500ci that they are a good hard running engine.


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Title: Re: Opinions on 521 build
Post by: Outlawmayhem on March 03, 2016, 07:35:19 AM
my buddy has a 514 in his Miller and he loves it. George striegel from clay smith cams told me personally once they go over 500ci that they are a good hard running engine.


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Thats what this motor would be going in.  My 75 Miller
Title: Re: Opinions on 521 build
Post by: B.CR33CH on March 03, 2016, 07:45:04 AM

Thats what this motor would be going in.  My 75 Miller
I'm not sure what year his is but here's a pic.


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Title: Re: Opinions on 521 build
Post by: Outlawmayhem on March 03, 2016, 07:48:07 AM
I'm not sure what year his is but here's a pic.


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Looks like it might be a 76 i think they ran that paint scheme on those. 
Title: Re: Opinions on 521 build
Post by: B.CR33CH on March 03, 2016, 08:33:31 AM

Looks like it might be a 76 i think they ran that paint scheme on those.
He said it's an 81


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Title: Re: Opinions on 521 build
Post by: Outlawmayhem on March 03, 2016, 08:37:20 AM
He said it's an 81


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Ah nice!
Title: Re: Opinions on 521 build
Post by: Nick on March 03, 2016, 10:39:51 AM
I've got a 521 that I love. Been a real strong motor. It's got a flat tappet cam, not a roller program but very reliable. It's 12.5:1 comp ratio and spins about 6100 RPM.

You can see all the stats on the motor over in the classified section - it's for sale. PM me with any questions you might have.

I'd also recommend you chat with Paul Kane, he's LakesOnly here on the boards, he's a Ford guru.
Title: Re: Opinions on 521 build
Post by: Outlawmayhem on March 03, 2016, 10:48:38 AM
I've definitely heard of him.  I'd love a set of his p51 heads but it's not in my budget.  Maybe later down the line.  What fuel you running on that 521?
Title: Re: Opinions on 521 build
Post by: Steve-O on March 03, 2016, 10:50:47 AM

I'm not sure what year his is but here's a pic.


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That's a bad looking boat.


Steve-O
Title: Re: Opinions on 521 build
Post by: Nick on March 03, 2016, 10:51:03 AM
VP 110
Title: Re: Opinions on 521 build
Post by: Outlawmayhem on March 03, 2016, 11:12:13 AM
Dam! I'd run something like that in a boat that doesn't run up and down the river all weekend. This is my family boat.  Haul wife and kids around and when I'm alone or they're on the beach I do a few passes to have my fun lol
Title: Re: Opinions on 521 build
Post by: Steve-O on March 03, 2016, 11:13:09 AM
Nick, your motor is solid, pretty much a race motor. What compression do you think changes the game from 91 to 110 octane? I'm with Outlaw on running pump gas but have greedy tendencies for performance.

Beautiful boat btw. One of my favorite CP's I've seen.


Steve-O
Title: Re: Opinions on 521 build
Post by: Outlawmayhem on March 03, 2016, 11:16:05 AM
Nick, your motor is solid, pretty much a race motor. What compression do you think changes the game from 91 to 110 octane? I'm with Outlaw on running pump gas but have greedy tendencies for performance.

Beautiful boat btw. One of my favorite CP's I've seen.


Steve-O

I wouldn't even mind having to run some sort of booster on top of pump gas.  I just can't afford to run all day on the river on race fuel.
Title: Re: Opinions on 521 build
Post by: folsom619 on March 03, 2016, 11:17:43 AM
I have a 522 built by Bostick solid roller 10.7:1 compression. Runs on pump gas . Dynoed 705hp.




Title: Re: Opinions on 521 build
Post by: Outlawmayhem on March 03, 2016, 11:20:44 AM
I have a 522 built by Bostick solid roller 10.7:1 compression. Runs on pump gas . Dynoed 705hp.

I wish I could pay bostick to build me a motor.  Id have to save for like 5 years lol
Title: Re: Opinions on 521 build
Post by: FordLover on March 03, 2016, 11:59:18 AM
Wish I could tell you how awesome my 521 runs, buuuuuut I am not quite there yet. Picked the brains of Paul-LakesOnly, Tom-Fullfam1 and Bruce-CP 00 all were super helpful. In the next week or two should be dropping that bitch back in the boat. Have no fricking clue the power or torque it will come up with but I know it will be enough. It will be 11 to 1. Ill run 91 with a splash of 110. CANT.F#CKING.WAIT!!!  Beast is about to be let out of the cage.  Been two years comin.
Title: Re: Opinions on 521 build
Post by: Outlawmayhem on March 03, 2016, 12:02:36 PM
Wish I could tell you how awesome my 521 runs, buuuuuut I am not quite there yet. Picked the brains of Paul-LakesOnly, Tom-Fullfam1 and Bruce-CP 00 all were super helpful. In the next week or two should be dropping that bitch back in the boat. Have no fricking clue the power or torque it will come up with but I know it will be enough. It will be 11 to 1. Ill run 91 with a splash of 110. CANT.F#CKING.WAIT!!!  Beast is about to be let out of the cage.  Been two years comin.

How much of a splash of 110 are you thinking? I might just go 514 and up the compression. Did you do your build piece by piece or did you go with a scat or similar package?
Title: Re: Opinions on 521 build
Post by: 77_liberty on March 03, 2016, 12:14:07 PM
Be got a 521 had thoughts of going pump gas but rather be safe gonna keep going half and half or AV gas. New boat to me. Seems to be strong no complaints on it so far. Race fuel gets pricey if you like to run around all day. I spend average 400a weekend in my v6 buggy.


Title: Re: Opinions on 521 build
Post by: 00 CP on March 03, 2016, 01:53:36 PM
Mines a 508, full roller, 12:1 running av gas. I bought a set of Motorsport A429 CJ aluminum heads in '98 and have been using them since with no problems. I originally used a set of iron Blue Thunder heads because of the heating/cooling issues mentioned by Steve-O, but there were problems with the heads and I ended up replacing them with the CJ's.
As you probably know, the stock heads on the 460's are very restrictive. The CJ's are much better than stock, but the Trick Flow and Kaase P-51's are far better still. If it's in your budget, I'd look at aftermarket heads. JMO
Title: Re: Opinions on 521 build
Post by: FordLover on March 03, 2016, 02:11:06 PM
Mines a 508, full roller, 12:1 running av gas. I bought a set of Motorsport A429 CJ aluminum heads in '98 and have been using them since with no problems. I originally used a set of iron Blue Thunder heads because of the heating/cooling issues mentioned by Steve-O, but there were problems with the heads and I ended up replacing them with the CJ's.
As you probably know, the stock heads on the 460's are very restrictive. The CJ's are much better than stock, but the Trick Flow and Kaase P-51's are far better still. If it's in your budget, I'd look at aftermarket heads. JMO

Your boat is super badass. 👍
Title: Re: Opinions on 521 build
Post by: FordLover on March 03, 2016, 02:13:10 PM
I am running the aluminum edelbrocks. Had them prepped for marine setup. After doing homework and talking to some cool folks I will probably do 10-20% of the 110 with 91. Depending on final tune.
Title: Re: Opinions on 521 build
Post by: Outlawmayhem on March 03, 2016, 02:14:20 PM
Mines a 508, full roller, 12:1 running av gas. I bought a set of Motorsport A429 CJ aluminum heads in '98 and have been using them since with no problems. I originally used a set of iron Blue Thunder heads because of the heating/cooling issues mentioned by Steve-O, but there were problems with the heads and I ended up replacing them with the CJ's.
As you probably know, the stock heads on the 460's are very restrictive. The CJ's are much better than stock, but the Trick Flow and Kaase P-51's are far better still. If it's in your budget, I'd look at aftermarket heads. JMO

I've been looking at aftermarket heads.  But they aren't in the budget at this time.  I do plan to work on the c9 heads I have.  Port and Polish plus larger valves.  I know it won't be the same as the aftermarket but it's better than stock. 
Title: Re: Opinions on 521 build
Post by: Outlawmayhem on March 03, 2016, 02:15:47 PM
I am running the aluminum edelbrocks. Had them prepped for marine setup. After doing homework and talking to some cool folks I will probably do 10-20% of the 110 with 91. Depending on final tune.

That's not that bad at all.  Let me know how it turns out.  I wouldn't mind mixing fuels.  It'll keep the cost down at least.  And I could always change the timing and run full race fuel if I really wanna play
Title: Re: Opinions on 521 build
Post by: 00 CP on March 03, 2016, 04:09:21 PM
Your boat is super badass. 👍
Thanks, waiting to hear more about how yours runs soon.
Title: Opinions on 521 build
Post by: Nick on March 03, 2016, 07:18:24 PM
Nick, your motor is solid, pretty much a race motor. What compression do you think changes the game from 91 to 110 octane? I'm with Outlaw on running pump gas but have greedy tendencies for performance.

Beautiful boat btw. One of my favorite CP's I've seen.


Steve-O

I'm no engine builder but I've always used 105 or higher octane for engines that are over 11:1.




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Title: Opinions on 521 build
Post by: BCouey on March 03, 2016, 07:48:43 PM
Man you ford guys have it easy, big cubes with no aftermarket block!


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Title: Opinions on 521 build
Post by: Steve-O on March 04, 2016, 08:19:51 AM
Man you ford guys have it easy, big cubes with no aftermarket block!


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We just consider ourselves highly intelligent. Lol. 🤓


I spoke with Paul (LakesOnly) about some Ford build questions. The guy is a wealth of knowledge and is very particular in the ways he does things.

He dispelled what I heard about the aluminum heads on a boat, I'll spare the details but he is fine with it. He recommends a strict re-torquing regimen after break in and seasonally. Also plenty of proof from 00 CP and many others on the site they work well-beautiful boat btw 00 CP.. Paul likes the cobra jet heads for performance among others; he likes them because if you have a problem, they are readily available as the others are not. He also said he's made some big hp on stock cast heads but I'll spare the details on that too.  We talked 2 bolt vs 4 bolt mains, super chargers, cams, forged cranks, rod bolt upgrades, flat tappet vs roller... It was rapid fire q & a and he knows what's up.

To get back to the original post on this thread, seems like you can't go wrong with a 514 or 521. If you have plans for more upgrades in the future, maybe stick with the 521 and keep the compression and cam mild for now?


Steve-O
Title: Re: Opinions on 521 build
Post by: FordLover on March 04, 2016, 08:48:53 AM
Paul is the yoda for fords and glenn (gt jets) is the mr miyagi or Gandalf of jet boats and brad is the the morpheus of the scjb world. Damn, that got nerdy fast. Lol
Title: Re: Opinions on 521 build
Post by: TEAMSDSU on March 06, 2016, 12:24:09 AM
LoL, love the knowledge in these posts. I too just bought my first boat and found the 460 motor was shot when I got it home. Time for a rebuild, just dropped my engine off with Bostick. That guy knows his stuff and was bombing me with ideas and options. Seeing as this is my first jet boat and I have no clue about Ford motors, he is going to check the block and give me a few options to choose from to get what I want out of it.

Keep up the tech info on the post as I am learning from all your guys knowledge. Thanks again!

Shawn
Title: Re: Opinions on 521 build
Post by: Outlawmayhem on March 06, 2016, 12:26:05 AM
LoL, love the knowledge in these posts. I too just bought my first boat and found the 460 motor was shot when I got it home. Time for a rebuild, just dropped my engine off with Bostick. That guy knows his stuff and was bombing me with ideas and options. Seeing as this is my first jet boat and I have no clue about Ford motors, he is going to check the block and give me a few options to choose from to get what I want out of it.

Keep up the tech info on the post as I am learning from all your guys knowledge. Thanks again!

Shawn

Nice.  I would love to have bostick build me a motor but I can barely afford to build it myself.  Someday
Title: Re: Opinions on 521 build
Post by: TEAMSDSU on March 06, 2016, 12:27:58 AM
I may have to use a home equity line of credit, but I want it done right the first time. Pulling it out was a bi*ch to do by myself, so I only want to put it back in once!

Shawn
Title: Re: Opinions on 521 build
Post by: Outlawmayhem on March 06, 2016, 12:52:34 AM
I may have to use a home equity line of credit, but I want it done right the first time. Pulling it out was a bi*ch to do by myself, so I only want to put it back in once!

Shawn

I enjoy the work.  I'm a heavy equipment mechanic so this is light work for me.  I also enjoy wrenching.  And building engines is one of my favorite things.  I just know bostick can do it much better since he has the machinery and resources as well as the knowledge. 
Title: Re: Opinions on 521 build
Post by: FordLover on March 06, 2016, 05:09:01 PM
Here is my 521. Ready to put it back in the boat.
Title: Re: Opinions on 521 build
Post by: folsom619 on March 06, 2016, 06:11:32 PM

Here is my 521. Ready to put it back in the boat.
Damn, that looks awesome.




Title: Re: Opinions on 521 build
Post by: Outlawmayhem on March 06, 2016, 09:30:31 PM
Here is my 521. Ready to put it back in the boat.

I think you should donate that one to me :D
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