SoCal Jet Boats
Tech Talk => Engine Mechanical / Electrical => Topic started by: Nordie on August 31, 2009, 05:42:31 PM
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Alright as i got thinking the other day while i was seeing chromey mad and frustrated i began thinking...might be time to go with the go ahead and maybe rebuild my junkyard 429...if this is the case im going to be wanting to make some hp...getting passed up by larger boats aint cool!
Sooo what i am wondering is should i keep it a 429?
should i stroke it?
if so im going to want to know good components good ford websites links are good
advice from
ralph brunt
lakesonly
dave a&d engines
im not chasing stupid amounts of hp 450 i think woulkd be a reasonable request
how easy is it to build a motor thats equivalent to cubic inches on a nordie budget....mind you i dont want to cut corners...
things i know i need to do is get into the motor and see if the crank has been cut, cylinder bore size...if the motor is worth rebuilding....find a machinest...should i get into the heads? d3ve's or should i use the c9's...i know i want a pump gas motor
this is just a prelim so dont get excited yet guys
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i hate it when you start thinking :banghead: :sly:
dont open up that motor that runs great :screwy:
get a block crank and rods from lakes only and send it to dave at a&d open your wallet start spending money :D
450hp is easy with a 460, no need to stoke. the most important part is going to be the bottom end staying together..... (daves job ;))
let me know if i can help.
get block crank, rods and pistons for the c9's and send to dave
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dont open up that motor that runs great :screwy:
Exactly
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Remember...U do not need to spend alot of $$.
2. Focus on CID. why 429 ???
3. Have sht checked out & make sure u have a sound foundation....It can be in-expensive.(based on your goals).
I agree with Ralph on this.... :thumbup:
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Remember...U do not need to spend alot of $$.
2. Focus on CID. why 429 ???
3. Have sht checked out & make sure u have a sound foundation....It can be in-expensive.(based on your goals).
I agree with Ralph on this.... :thumbup:
429 is what is currently in the boat...was thinking of going through it this offseason...i mean im sure i can pick up a bottom end block all that and have it sent to you dave....when the time is right
ok ralphy you win on this one...i'll do a 460!
skip i wanna squeeze your man boobies
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I think you made a good choice on the 460. I had a 1970 429 in my cv 23 for 2 years
before it broke a rod. It was a stock short block from the junk yard with 21000 miles.
I heard the rumors they liked to break rods but I never ran over 4600 rpms so I went
with it. I paid $50.00 for it, how times change....
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460 bottom ends are cheap and easy to find, Josh. I would start there. You already have the makings of a killer top end, so building a good, solid bottom end should be cheap at that target HP. Your biggest expense may come in the form of the pistons, where you'll need to be careful with those C9's I think.
I would also keep the 429 as it is! If you want to run D3VE's I have the new ones from the Moo's original engine, very fresh, and still easily able to hit that target, I would have them dissasembled and cleaned only because of the shavings from the bearing failures.
Actually, that entire engine could be done very inexpesively, now that I think about it. At worst we'd be looking at a couple rods, pistons and possibly a crank, but the rest of the thing just needs flushed, cleaned and reassembled. Supposed to have a pretty good cam in it, but that would have to be verified. Thing only ran like 30 minutes after all the guy put into it.
Ray
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Thing only ran like 30 minutes after all the guy put into it.
Thats because the boat was pissed off it was painted like a cow, it just could'nt go on any longer! ;)
Josh, 450 should be very do able with a 460 (even for a ford). like Ray said you have some nice parts that will transfer over to a 460, I think you are already further along then you may think.
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Exactly. Those C9's you got from Charley are pretty fresh also, as I remember, and Paul should be able to tell you what you can or cannot get away with on the pistons to keep it in the 9-10:1 CR range using those heads. (Mines over 11, probably closer to 12, more than I'd like).
I honestly think though, you can hit the 450-500HP range easily enough with the d3ve's. Those C9's can be made to flow like a MoFo, hence their appeal, as well as the closed chamber design. Depends on which way you want to go with it really.
If all else fails, find a 460 blower intake. Got a Holley 8-71 sitting here! ;D
Ray
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A 429 will run in a jet boat but between a 429 and a 460 I'll take the 460 almost every time, especially if you have an A impeller.
The main issue with the 429 is that there is only one set of forged shelf pistons available for them, the TRW/Speed-Pro L2366. Those pistons and D3's put you at about 8.75:1 c/r, and C9's will put you at about 10.5:1 c/r. They also weigh 1000+ grams with the pin.
If you switch to a 460 crankshaft (uses your same rods) you will have dozens of pistons options in dish, flat top, dome, etc. A 460 crank is the cheapest "+31 cubic inch stroker crank" out there for you, and you can run compression ratios pretty much wherever you want, from 8.5:1 to 13:1 with readily available shelf pistons. And 450hp is a walk in the park with these engines.
I have to agree that taking apart a good running engine is not always the greatest idea. Perhaps it might be better to keep it as a spare and build another longblock and can transfer the bolt-ons (pan, induction, distributor, exh, etc) between the two. Sounds like you already have some C9 heads. I have blocks cranks rods, heads, etc, stock, modified, if you want anything. Feel free to call.
LO
p.s.: If you want more power out of your current engine, you might swap the D3VE's out for the C9VE's (if that's your current combo). There is more to this than just the swap (valve train) but if you are considering it I'll get into greater detail.
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yes c9 heads have a different geometry to them where the d3 stuff will not work! yeah the heads look pretty fresh [c9ve] heads...they have valves springs...however since the springs are unknown i know i wont be running them...the heads are there so i may as well use them on the 460 build correct? i can get pistons to work the c/r out so i can be pump gas at what around 10.5 to 1?
also have the heads and know flow caracteristics i should be able to find a cam that will really work well with the heads...im sure i could have them massaged to work even better but still...intake i would be using is a weiand stealth...it just seems to me that i have a hard time finding websites that would let me look at rotating assemblies and see what would work best...i know that a forged piston will be going in there, and i am sure that dave (a & d engines) would be able to put the motor at good marine clearances...i will be in touch with people as time progresses and i can get started on this...im sure cam would be hydraulic flat tappit but probably roller rockers since i gotta buy rockers anyway!
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leave your god damn motor alone!
if you want to build something bigger/better/faster....start from scratch. youre better off that way if you dont finish before next spring, you still have a running motor.
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leave your god damn motor alone!
if you want to build something bigger/better/faster....start from scratch. youre better off that way if you dont finish before next spring, you still have a running motor.
This motor will stay together and i will start a new motor project...
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YA! keep asking questions josh, im taking notes! i got to do this too.... :D
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If it helps any chromey im going to do the whole buy a block rotating assembly and all that and its going to end up in daves hands...i hear the overwhelming confidence that people have in him and his tedious work! my dad had a motor built down here and everything went to shit...i dont think there is a machine shop i could trust down here...as much as we all goto california i will have something dropped off to him...
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Nordie you wwont be disappointed ;)
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after calling you nancy boy and all that you arent allowed to touch the motor either....however seeing what you do to ralph you can touch something else O0
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Dang another frickin homo ;)
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after calling you nancy boy and all that you arent allowed to touch the motor either....however seeing what you do to ralph you can touch something else O0
once 76 takes care of you, you will let him do what ever he wants to you assy, i mean eng :-[ :D
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According to a pic I recently saw on here, '76 apparently knows his way around a crank, uses both hands pretty effectively, got the face into the action, even from an office chair pretty readily, soooo who's gaying up the thread? ;D Also seems to have a clown fetish, I dunno................
I think I've figured out the Nancy Boy thing, but will wait until everyone else catches it, lol.
Ray
Mark, we're just ridin yah. HARD! YES!, lol. Could be more serious, like if Omar was in on it, THEN I'd worry.
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i did it again i jacked my own thread!
According to a pic I recently saw on here, '76 apparently knows his way around a crank, uses both hands pretty effectively, got the face into the action, even from an office chair pretty readily, soooo who's gaying up the thread? ;D Also seems to have a clown fetish, I dunno................
I think I've figured out the Nancy Boy thing, but will wait until everyone else catches it, lol.
Ray
Mark, we're just ridin yah. HARD! YES!, lol. Could be more serious, like if Omar was in on it, THEN I'd worry.
does anyone see a sig line in this?
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I think it might be time to bring back the way SCJB looked on April fools a while back. Some of these guys might feel a little more at home :sly:
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ok back on topic...
for now im on the hunt for block...crank...rods...pistons...bearin gs...basically a shortblock correct?
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ok back on topic...
for now im on the hunt for block...crank...rods...pistons...bearin gs...basically a shortblock correct?
shortblock, correct
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dont flatter yourself jeremy i knew that...just wondering if im going parts n pieces or see whats available ya know? i kinda crenge at the fact that im going to build a bbf before a bbc but...thats what the hiti's got so i'll run with it!
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dont flatter yourself jeremy i knew that...just wondering if im going parts n pieces or see whats available ya know? i kinda crenge at the fact that im going to build a bbf before a bbc but...thats what the hiti's got so i'll run with it!
BBF's have more power......... And i would build one if i had the chance ;)
This is not 2sav i stole his computer :sly:
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was just stating the obvoius (since you already said it), butter cup!
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LMAO wow, my first siggy line, lol.
Anyways, Josh, you should be good to go. AND got 2sav's approval on this? (Wonders never cease). Lemme know if you wanna shop around or try a combination of what I got lyin around minus a piece here and there or find a good truck engine and go from there.
I am curious what cam I have in this thing, and may break out the degree wheel and dial indicator this weekend to see. Depends on what's going on.
Ray
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BBF's have more power......... And i would build one if i had the chance ;)
you had your chance chebby boy >:D now go back to your hole :D
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Call me dumb...but who is Micheal Vick ???
GT ...chime in ;D
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Now THAT"S funny!!!!!
Dave, the blonde hair apparently took root................................... .........
LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Ray
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Call me dumb...but who is Micheal Vick ???
I think he is the guy running for ASPCA member of the year award ;)
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after calling you nancy boy and all that you arent allowed to touch the motor either....however seeing what you do to ralph you can touch something else O0
Sht..read this ..had a mouth full of coffee, blasted the coffee outa my nose.Could not hold it back ...sht thats funny :o
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hey nordie maybe we can get a discount on two motors?
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all i gotta say is you get what you pay for mr chromey...im sure there will be a slight scjb discount but im not going to sweat it!
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Call me dumb...but who is Micheal Vick ???
GT ...chime in ;D
Hey dumb :D
You gotta be kidding me...Although this was a little out of the blue :-\
This is Michael Vick, by far one of the biggest pieces of crap on tha planet... :thumbdown:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/17/AR2007071701393.html
GT
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hey nordie maybe we can get a discount on two motors?
Ya u guys will....plus your SCJB discount ;D :thumbup:
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Ya u guys will....plus your SCJB discount
sweet i like getting cash back!...lol
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sweet i like getting cash back!...lol
Ya...and u guys will...give me time & the work is alot cheaper ...like 40 0/0 less..off price sheet :)
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Forgot to add. :o
IF I HAVE 76' NORDIC do the work it's like 90 perc. off :o Just joking! Mark is very good @ his job :thumbup:
Catch is...We gotta have Ralph there so 76" will be content :screwy:
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you had your chance chebby boy >:D now go back to your hole :D
Sad but true...Fords r easier 2 build...Sorry 2 sav ;D