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Tio Pancho

  • Karma: +11/-0
Rail Kit Install Question
« on: May 28, 2009, 04:11:47 PM »
So we decided to install a rail kit in Bebo's Hondo. My question is how do I find the elevation that the horizontal part of the rail gets installed at? I assume that some vertical distance can be made up in the mounting plates, so a little too low is better than a little too high.
Second question, the angle for the mount is aluminum, but the flat bar bracing on the outside of the stringer is steel (less cash), will this cause a problem due to disimilar metals? We will be using SS bolts.

Thanks

Frank
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Brad @ SCJB

  • Karma: +255/-0
Re: Rail Kit Install Question
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2009, 04:22:09 PM »
install the rails level with the stringers.

the motor plates need to be ground down or wedged where they rest on the rails in order to adjust the motor angel to align it with the pump, but dont make it perfectly straight. the drive line needs a degree or two of angel in it to give it a little bind or it will make all sorts of noise and vibrate.


if i remember correctly, if you zero out the boat at the stringers, your pump sits at 4 degrees....so put your motor in at 3 or 5 degrees.
  • Boat #1: 1978 Liberty
  • Boat #2: 1982 Eliminator Sprint
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Tio Pancho

  • Karma: +11/-0
Re: Rail Kit Install Question
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2009, 04:52:50 PM »
I am not sure what you mean by "zero out the boat at the stringers". Do you mean making the stringers level fore and aft and using that as the starting point? Thanks for the info BTW.

Frank
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Brad @ SCJB

  • Karma: +255/-0
Re: Rail Kit Install Question
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2009, 04:54:55 PM »
yes....use the stringers as a zero point.
  • Boat #1: 1978 Liberty
  • Boat #2: 1982 Eliminator Sprint
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HDriderTH

  • Karma: +12/-0
Re: Rail Kit Install Question
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2009, 04:57:18 PM »
pics Frank pics
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'82 Sanger Bubble deck, Blown 454....V-drive

Tio Pancho

  • Karma: +11/-0
Re: Rail Kit Install Question
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2009, 05:08:35 PM »
No action yet, just planning and staging materials. We are still only as far as removing the bad fiberglass and foam (previous thread).
Any input on the different metals....?

Frank
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SLCKREG

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rail Kit Install Question
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2009, 06:20:41 PM »
Hey Tio..are we working on a jet ???  Fwiw I wouldn't drill all the holes until you know you have it sitting right.
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Tio Pancho

  • Karma: +11/-0
Re: Rail Kit Install Question
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2009, 06:27:25 PM »
Yeah its a jet. Don't plan on drilling until I understand it well. Still don't quite know how to figure the elevation, ie even with top, or how far below top of stringer for best fit/function.

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SLCKREG

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rail Kit Install Question
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2009, 06:31:59 PM »
My rails are as low on the stringers as they can get... IMO there is no way to know where until you mock it up.. 8)
« Last Edit: May 28, 2009, 07:59:55 PM by SLCKREG »
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Stevecat

  • Karma: +2/-0
Re: Rail Kit Install Question
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2009, 07:06:12 PM »

Second question, the angle for the mount is aluminum, but the flat bar bracing on the outside of the stringer is steel (less cash), will this cause a problem due to disimilar metals? We will be using SS bolts.


Technically?... yes those are 3 slightly different metals that after 10 years might have some galvanic corrosion.

Practically? No. There's places on most motors where alum is mating up with steel and stainless sprinkled around here and there. If you wanted peace of mind then slather all the contact surfaces with silicone when you put it together after mock up. That will block both water and air and give you 30 years instead of 10!  ;D
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Boatless
The older I get, the better I was.

Stevecat

  • Karma: +2/-0
Re: Rail Kit Install Question
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2009, 07:24:41 PM »
if i remember correctly, if you zero out the boat at the stringers, your pump sits at 4 degrees....so put your motor in at 3 or 5 degrees.

When I was dorking with my driveline and motor mounts, I got paranoid about just taking for granted what the factory castings were supposed to be, so I eventually came up with a fairly EZ way to measure what angle the pump was set at relative to the stringers.

I don't like the REAL EZ way which is to use a protractor/level - FWIW there's only 6 inches worth of contact to try to get an accurate reading on a very shallow angle. Not a good situation in my opinion.

Like Brad sez, zero out your hull so the top of stringers are level. Then, clamp some kind of straight edge vertical onto the face of the pump flange where the splined shaft is sticking out. I had a 3' piece of 3/4 x 3/4 alum angle that worked well for this. Then I took a 24" long carpenters level and held it up so it was along side (forward) of the angle/straightedge. With the bottom of the level touching the straightedge and the level perfectly vertical, I measured the distance (gap) at the top between the level and the straightedge. I was holding the level with one hand and a tape measure with the other.

Then I just trigged out the angle on a calculator that had "arctan" (aka tan-1) of gap distance/24"

I'm sure that I was accurate to within a 1/4 of a degree which satisfied my inner nerd.
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Boatless
The older I get, the better I was.

jet boat performance

  • Karma: +25/-0
Re: Rail Kit Install Question
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2009, 08:19:16 PM »
Frank we do this routinely , call if Josh or I can help Tom

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Brad @ SCJB

  • Karma: +255/-0
Re: Rail Kit Install Question
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2009, 12:16:54 AM »
heres some pics of rail kit installs ralph and i have done so you can get an idea.

I suggest you measure 5 to 500 times and cut/drill/grind/etc once. I remember when we did the rail kit in the raspberry, we dropped that motor into the boat and set it on the rails over and over...everytime we put it in, it was at a different angle.  :screwy:



















  • Boat #1: 1978 Liberty
  • Boat #2: 1982 Eliminator Sprint
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Tio Pancho

  • Karma: +11/-0
Re: Rail Kit Install Question
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2009, 10:53:26 PM »
Thanx for the pics Brad they really help. Bebo and I are going to do our best to limit our "do overs" and make it work and look at least decent.

Frank
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Sanger Pete

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: Rail Kit Install Question
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2009, 12:14:39 AM »
Frank
The motor plates went down to Azusa with my son on Monday. I'll have him give you a call over the weekend.
Mark--"Sanger Pete"
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Tio Pancho

  • Karma: +11/-0
Re: Rail Kit Install Question
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2009, 06:22:34 PM »
Excellent, I hope they work out  ;D.

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jrork

  • Karma: +4/-0
Re: Rail Kit Install Question
« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2009, 09:14:23 PM »
I was exactly where you are about a year ago.  For some reason I had started to think there was a ton of Calculas (sp?) and black magic voodoo shit in doing this.  As it was, it was damn easy and the folks here on the board and Tommy talked me through this with no drama.  I mounted my rails a touch under the tops of the stringers just cuz I didnt want to muck up a beautiful radius the top of my stringers had.  Go for it and we're all here to help
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Tio Pancho

  • Karma: +11/-0
Re: Rail Kit Install Question
« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2009, 09:28:58 PM »
Thanks for the vote of confidence. We are cleaning up the engine bay and filling the old stringer holes right now. We should be starting the install after we get back from our vacation.

Frank
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Tio Pancho

  • Karma: +11/-0
Re: Rail Kit Install Question
« Reply #18 on: June 06, 2009, 03:05:02 PM »
What size bolts do you guys use for through bolting the rails? I was thinking 1/2". Also should the holes through the rails be the same size, or do you oversize by say 1/16"?

Frank
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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: Rail Kit Install Question
« Reply #19 on: June 06, 2009, 03:09:59 PM »
What size bolts do you guys use for through bolting the rails? I was thinking 1/2". Also should the holes through the rails be the same size, or do you oversize by say 1/16"?

Frank

I would say 3/8" grade 8 is more than adequate, I would rather see you use more fasteners than larger ones....
As far as the oversize thing, the tighter the better, .003 or .004" is more than enough, the tighter the bolt fits in the metal, the less it can move around hogging out the stringers.... :sly:

GT
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

jrork

  • Karma: +4/-0
Re: Rail Kit Install Question
« Reply #20 on: June 06, 2009, 08:40:15 PM »
X2 with what Glenn said.  I went with 5 3/8" bolts per side.  Likely to rip the stringers out before you shear those bolts.

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GAWnCA

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re: Rail Kit Install Question
« Reply #21 on: June 07, 2009, 04:00:44 AM »
What spacing do you go between the bolts on the rails?
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~Greg
Forgive your enemies.  It messes up their heads.

Ralph Brunt

  • Karma: +51/-0
Re: Rail Kit Install Question
« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2009, 06:00:28 AM »
What spacing do you go between the bolts on the rails?
space them evenly
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jrork

  • Karma: +4/-0
Re: Rail Kit Install Question
« Reply #23 on: June 07, 2009, 07:27:20 AM »
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Brad @ SCJB

  • Karma: +255/-0
Re: Rail Kit Install Question
« Reply #24 on: June 07, 2009, 08:00:55 AM »
also, use stringer washers and make sure you use a flat bar on the outside of the stringer.

too many times i have seen regular washers on the outside of the stringer and thats it...and they are sunken into the stringer over time. my southwind is done this way and this winter i will be pulling the motor out to fix it.  :banghead:
  • Boat #1: 1978 Liberty
  • Boat #2: 1982 Eliminator Sprint
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