SoCal Jet Boats
Tech Talk => Engine Mechanical / Electrical => Topic started by: The Chaz on May 14, 2008, 01:23:38 PM
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I want to replace my cam with aone better suited for a jet boat. What/where should I look for? Do I need non-bleed down lifters? Running a 460 with soon to have OT headers, about 9.7:1 compression (stock 69' heads) and tunnel ram with 2 600's. I would like to get better breathing heads if I can find a set down the road at the right price.
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I called George at Clay Smith Cams last week and told him what I had and what I wanted to do. With that he gave his recommendation and it should be delivered this week.1-714-523-0530
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call george at clay smith cams
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beat me to it :D or
http://www.socaljetboats.com/index.php?topic=2501.0 (http://www.socaljetboats.com/index.php?topic=2501.0)
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... I would like to get better breathing heads if I can find a set down the road at the right price.
What heads do you currently have?
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Thanks I will call him tomorrow.
I have the 69' passenger car heads. small combustion chamber. I thought to get them ported, but I keep being told to just get aluminum ones. They should flow as good as the ported ones and even better if I posrt them down the road.
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Thanks for the hook up O0
After speaking at length with George, I was convinced to bring him my heads for some "work" >:D So that the new cam they are making for me will be able to open the valves that high and breath properly. ;D
Got the heads off and waiting for Monday :-\
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>:( Got bad news today. My heads have false valve seats and they will not work on them. I was told they are dangerous for jet boat applications as the seats can fall out at high RPM's. I need new heads :'( I wish I had know this at the start of my F'in ordeal with these things. I could have a good set on there and be ready to go. :mad:
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I have a complete set of D3VE-A2A's if you need them pm me and we'll talk. I actually have 2 sets of them.
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>:( Got bad news today. My heads have false valve seats and they will not work on them. I was told they are dangerous for jet boat applications as the seats can fall out at high RPM's. I need new heads :'( I wish I had know this at the start of my F'in ordeal with these things. I could have a good set on there and be ready to go. :mad:
Why can't the old valve seats be cut out, and new ones installed with a press? Any machine shop should be able to replace seats, maybe a little bigger on the outside diameter, and put a 0.010" press
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I dont know what "false" seats are exactly, but it sounds like they are something that is not factory installed? Anyways this is from George @ Clay Smith Cams. Thanks for the offer Marc, I think George got a pair for $150 of A2A's. They will have to be cut down a bit to reduce combustion chamber size to 85cc's this will bring me UP to 9:1 compression which George reccomends in all but all out racing jet boat applications. He said the lower compression will allow more advance and much less worry for detonation. I was iffy with this as I felt the loss of power when I dropped from 10 to 9.5:1 but I went with him after reccomendations form this site so I hope you guys didn't steer me wrong >:D JK I feel comfortable with his expertise and knowledge, plus he assured me we will get 550-600 HP out the new build compared to the approx 350 I have now. O0
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I just realized this WAS a cam replacement thread :P Well I just got my ARP main studs and fel pro gasket set. Studs are installed and new to me windage tray is in place. I really hope I can get those heads back, cam installed and broken in, and engine in the boat before Parker :banghead: Or else I will just be watching from shore :'(
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i dont want to argue with george but, i will. if the heads he got your are the open chambers ford heads you will have to worry about detonation. what are the casting #s from the heads he is getting you. as well if you cut the heads that much the intake wont fit properly(you will need to cut the intake as well) now you have a bastard intake that wont fit on anything other than those heads. just tell him to get you some doves, c9,
jmo
edit, get ahold of paul kane (lakes only) he has the heads you need
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i dont want to argue with george but, i will. if the heads he got your are the open chambers ford heads you will have to worry about detonation. what are the casting #s from the heads he is getting you. as well if you cut the heads that much the intake wont fit properly(you will need to cut the intake as well) now you have a bastard intake that wont fit on anything other than those heads. just tell him to get you some doves, c9,
jmo
edit, get ahold of paul kane (lakes only) he has the heads you need
agreed +1
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I found a set of trickflow a460 for a thousand bucks new on ebay they are there if you look for em I have my old d3ve a2a that are fine you can have.................or else they are destined for the scrap yard with a bunch of olds 455 and ford fe motors in my barn...................
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Is he going to hog out thoes heads to match your cj tr to?
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I found a set of trickflow a460 for a thousand bucks
hold on now, a460's are a hole different animal, you will need custom pistons, intake man is totally different and if im not mistaken the valve train is totally different. you better know what you are doing if you plan on going this route.
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OK I will call him
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OK, George said they will only need to take A tiny bit off the heads, like 10 -15 thousandths I think he said, I will not have anything to worry about as far as intake fitting. He said the open chambers make more HP than closed and at 9:1 I wont have any worries about detonation. Don't stress me out guys >:D I can't afford to do this twice. BTW anyone needs a perfect set of D9's with new valves, springs guides, and seats? >:D
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OK, George said they will only need to take A tiny bit off the heads, like 10 -15 thousandths I think he said, I will not have anything to worry about as far as intake fitting. He said the open chambers make more HP than closed and at 9:1 I wont have any worries about detonation. Don't stress me out guys >:D I can't afford to do this twice. BTW anyone needs a perfect set of D9's with new valves, springs guides, and seats? >:D
chaz do us all favor, call paul kane 3104351900. and see what he says. i dont recomend the open chambers.
you are making a mistake in my honest opinion
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chaz do us all favor, call paul kane 3104351900. and see what he says. i dont recomend the open chambers.
you are making a mistake in my honest opinion
I've "heard" that the open chamber heads will flow better, due to the unshrouding of the valves in the combustion chamber. But hell, I just traded my D3's for some DOVE straight across
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I've "heard" that the open chamber heads will flow better, due to the unshrouding of the valves in the combustion chamber. But hell, I just traded my D3's for some DOVE straight across
That is exactly what George said...
I'll call Paul though, he has always helped me in the past.
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I must say this has been a very stressful day... I did not get Paul on the phone but Clay Smith Cams is closed until Tuesday anyways. This is what I found however
Paul Kane
BBF Head Heirarchy
13. Cast iron D3VE-A2A
12. Cast iron DOVE-C
11. Cast iron DOOE-R CJ
10. The various Edelbrock heads, the older Ford alum, A-429 CJ heads, the TFS CJ head, and the Blue Thunder CJ head (stock exhaust port location)
9. The Blue Thunder CJ raised exhaust port (Ford) (a little better)
8. The Blue Thunder with Chevy Ex flange.
7. Ford SVO SCJ head(Kasse)
6. Older TFS or Ford Motorsport A-460 heads
5. New TFS A-460 heads, EX514 head, & IDT Eliminator "A" head
4. Older Ford Motorsport bastard Pro Stock heads
3. New Ford SVO C-460 heads, & RFE Profiler "C" heads.
2. D-460 & E-460 Pro Stock heads; & Blue Thunder "Thor" heads,
1. Then the Hemi heads.
So the ones I am currently scheduled to get made the list albiet in last place, but at least they rank???
Hopefully I can get at voice answer before Tuesday. I really want to get the right heads and get this thing back together before Parker. I am just kicking myself now for even messing with it, but I didn't think I was going to get to go :banghead:
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chaz, are you getting the d3's or the d2 open chamber heads? i mite have misdunderstood, please clarify. all you posted was a2a
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I'm not 100% sure now, I sure he said open chambered, but also sure he said a2a... Oh the pain
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some heads
http://www.performanceboats.com/html/forums/showthread.php?t=9542 (http://www.performanceboats.com/html/forums/showthread.php?t=9542)
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Perfect O0 I forgot about seeing these over there thanks!! This is exactly what I need.
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Your old heads 1969 I am sure someone put hard exhaust seats in them for no lead gas,thats no reason not to work on them??????All new aluminum heads have seats pressed in them ,lots of guys run them on jets including me.
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A 460 Ford's best friend Paul from High Flow Dynamics talked to me at length today and I called Clay Smith to leave them a message that I will be picking up my original heads on Tuesday. I agree on the seats deal from all I've read since then and wil continue to run these until I get a matching set set up they way I want sent to me from Paul. I am sure Clay Smith Cams has the best intentions, but I am not comfortable with the whole idea of dropping my compression any lower. It ran great at 10:1 and runs fine at it current 9.5:1. If they were trying to give me D2VE-A2A heads that would have been a disaster. Thanks to everyone for the input on this, I sometimes get sucked into things before I have time to fully think them through. I am back to deciding on a cam replacement >:D I think I will get something that will work on the heads I will eventually have.
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whew, that was a close one.
glad you got it straightend out. ;D
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Clay Smith recommended a solid lifter cam... Is this something I can do? What is involved with switching to this?
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Solid lifter cam is no big deal as far as the change over but you will have to check the valve adjustment more often.
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How often is more often? With a good set of rockers and polylocks? End of season, 4-5 outings, daily?
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I haven't used one in a boat application yet, but depending on how much you use your boat every 4-5 outings should often enough.
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Does anyone in San Diego area have a push rod length checker? I will need one hopefully Monday. I am running out of time to have my boat ready for Parker :(
I did get my new Clay Smith cam installed today, however O0 With the Baja 500 this weekend I wont be able to touch the engine until Sunday evening at best. New rockers should be here Monday so I will need to measure and order the push rods ASAP after that if they are going to get to me in time to break in the cam and leave for Parker.
If not I guess I will be out there boatless :'( >:( :'(
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I do. You have my number.
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I do. You have my number.
Rockers just went UPS today :'( from FL so when I get a delivery confrimation day I will call you. Thanks. BTW how long does it take you to get custom length hardened push rods?
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg89.imageshack.us%2Fimg89%2F8803%2Fgraduationbaja500246me9.jpg&hash=c7eac55c876aefcc6f3152394e2a4d0316e72e2c)
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Summit has a ton of custom length pusrods in stock you can do a search on their site trickflow has the best price just search by tube length and tube diameter you can have em the next day ..............