SoCal Jet Boats
Tech Talk => Engine Mechanical / Electrical => Topic started by: ryanbrindle on April 11, 2008, 08:06:40 PM
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Here is a few pics that I took today while at the machine shop where my engine for the Sanger is. The pistons are Keith Black .060 and cost an arm, leg, and possibly a testicle (still waiting to see if the testicle is gonna be taken in leiu of payment). The piston that is shown in the block is not a Keith Black (its actually a piston for a 460 that the wrist pin height is not tall enough. Long story!). Enjoy!!!
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That looks good ;)
2sav
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Is it getting decked?
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Is it getting decked?
Nope. Only the heads got decked
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Is it getting decked?
Aren't you supposed to be in Parker.........
2sav
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Is it getting decked?
Aren't you supposed to be in Parker.........
2sav
I've been jacked!!!!
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Aren't you supposed to be in Parker.........
2sav
I'm working on it! I was in Parker between 1-2pm today, and I'll be going back in a few minutes here ;)
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I've been jacked!!!!
Whoops, Now back to you'r regular scheduled program ;D
2sav
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Whoops, Now back to you'r regular scheduled program ;D
2sav
Its cool, I know you. For anyone else it would be unacceptable. >:D O0
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Here is a few pics ... my engine. The pistons are Keith Black .060 and cost an arm, leg, and possibly a testicle. Enjoy!!!
Whoooooa, are those KB137's???? In a C9VE-A block???? Be careful with piston to cylinder head clearance in your combination!!! Might be much closer than you think. And by all means set the piston-to-bore clearance as the manufacturer recommends or your engine may be coming apart sometime sooner in the future than you intend. Equally (if not more) important, set the ring gap as the manufacturer recommends....DO NOT be fooled by anyone telling you that KB's top ring end gap recommendation is too loose - set ring end gap at .0034-.0036 (<----it's somewhere around there for 460 KB hypers in a marine application, LOOK IT UP). If you don't do this then your engine will come a part A LOT sooner than you think.
When it comes to hypereutectic pistons, I feel the KB's are the only what to go provided you follow their strict instructions on setup. But...for the money and in your application, why didn't you just select a set of rugged forged pistons instead? Much more appropriate in a marine build.
Here's an important question: How far in the hole were the factory rebuilder dished pistons?
LO
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kb368. Well after hours of searching these were the only pistons i could find for a 429. the cast pistons that i originally had were for a 460 so they sat down a good ways. the only other pistons i could find were from companies that custom made pistons (these were the only forged 429 pistons i couuld find) and were far to expensive for me. I will talk to the builder about all the stuff you listed above and hopefully he understands and doesnt think i am questioning his expertise. thanks for all of the tips and if you have anymore feel free to share.
ryan brindle
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kb368. Well after hours of searching these were the only pistons i could find for a 429. the cast pistons that i originally had were for a 460 so they sat down a good ways. the only other pistons i could find were from companies that custom made pistons (these were the only forged 429 pistons i couuld find) and were far to expensive for me. I will talk to the builder about all the stuff you listed above and hopefully he understands and doesnt think i am questioning his expertise. thanks for all of the tips and if you have anymore feel free to share.
ryan brindle
Per KB Website:
KB368 0.060" overbore / marine application / normally aspirated: Set piston-to-bore clearance at .0035"-0.0050" & top ring end gap to 0.0035" (second ring end gap is typical spec for a piston of this size).
Many people scoff at such a wide top ring end gap and set it much tighter, which (with these pistons) causes the ring ends to butt against each other and push against the bore and destroy the engine. This is one of the reasons that hypers get a bad name but the KB's are actually pretty nice. Follow the specs as outlined above in this post and you'll be okay in this area.
Also, make sure you run the engine's air/fuel mixture settings a little on the rich side. Hypers don't take well to detonation and are easily destroyed by it. Better to run slightly rich and risk fouling a plug(s) than have a piston disintegrate while the engine is running. Again, follow the specs and do net jet too lean and you'll be okay.
The deck hieght of your block is supposed to be no less than 10.300", and the stack hight of your rotating assembly is supposed to be 10.300", so in this particular case your piston's deck height should be fine, but be sure to check that your pistons are not too far out of the hole at TDC (not more than 0.005" in your particular case, assuming Fel-Pro 1018 head gasket) because all these dimensions are theoretical and each rod may have a longer center-to-center, etc.
LO
p.s.: The forged TRW 429 pistons, #2366 (TRW-L2366F30, TRW-L2366F40) used to be available in a 0.060 overbore, but with a different part number, TRW-L2368F60. Indeed, I don't believe they are available any longer. On the other hand, there are more 460 forged pistons than ever...so another option to your dilemma could have been simply locating a dime-a-dozen 460 crank and then purchasing 460 pistons, as the rest of your engine is the same as a 460 (429's only has different crank and pistons than a 460, the rest is the same). Basically 31 more cubes for the price of the crankshaft.
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Lakes,
Thanks for your replies. This is the last 429 im going to mess with. The rest will be 460's. After all this, the bottom end on this thing should be pretty tough. Thanks for the tuning sugestion on the carb, everything you said makes sense.
Thanks again,
Ryan Brindle
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Well the engine is home and gonna start assembly of all the other stuff soon. Heads are going to get some serious massaging soon as well. Pics to come.
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ALL PUT TOGETHER AND PRIMED!!!!!
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I know we talked before and you said you are going on the Parker unofficial gathering trip, are you bringing your boat/this engine? What color are you going to paint the engine? I don't think the balancer is on all of the way but I could easily be wrong.
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I know we talked before and you said you are going on the Parker unofficial gathering trip, are you bringing your boat/this engine? What color are you going to paint the engine? I don't think the balancer is on all of the way but I could easily be wrong.
Yep this is the combo thats going. The engine is already painted a grey/charcoal type color. The balancer is all the way against the spacer sleeve that is all the way against the timing gear and is torqued to 90pds or so. It does look pretty goofy in the pics but it's all the way on there. The greatest part of the whole thing is that nothing has to be pretty because everything is covered on my boat.
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I am not trying to offend you, I've only put ONE BBF together in my life, are you sure the balancer isn't on backwards? No sh!t, I put the balancer on backwards on my 460 the first time I installed it and it looked very similar to yours. ???
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I am not trying to offend you, I've only put ONE BBF together in my life, are you sure the balancer isn't on backwards? No sh!t, I put the balancer on backwards on my 460 the first time I installed it and it looked very similar to yours. ???
Thats a good question! Let me go check that one out really quick.
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upon further examination it is a good possiblity that it is on backwards! good call rod! might explain why the timing marks are off!
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Per KB Website:
KB368 0.060" overbore / marine application / normally aspirated: Set piston-to-bore clearance at .0035"-0.0050" & top ring end gap to 0.0035" (second ring end gap is typical spec for a piston of this size).
LO
There is a typo in my earlier post (and in the quote above). The correct ring gap is 0.035", not 0.0035".
I'm sure your engine builder saw it, you should still ask him, though.
LO
p.s.: Somebody here should have caught that! ;)
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There is a typo in my earlier post (and in the quote above). The correct ring gap is 0.035", not 0.0035".
I'm sure your engine builder saw it, you should still ask him, though.
LO
p.s.: Somebody here should have caught that! ;)
At least I caught the balancer dealio. :D
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Is that the oil pan your going to run in boat,
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Is that the oil pan your going to run in boat,
I'm not ryanbrindle but... why? ::)
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I'm not ryanbrindle but... why? ::)
front sump=no good
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front sump=no good
In a jet boat, never no good, even with a stock engine? ???
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In a jet boat, never no good, even with a stock engine? ???
Rod they have been putting front sump pans in jet boats longer than i have been into boating :-[
there are just better options imho. i had a front sump in the hawaiian and lost the motor due to oil control.
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If he was a Chevy guy , i would give him this extra 10 qt oil pan i have laying around..........
But he's another damn Ford guy :banghead:
2sav ;D
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get ahold of jim
http://www.performanceboats.com/html/forums/showthread.php?t=5743 (http://www.performanceboats.com/html/forums/showthread.php?t=5743)
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If he was a Chevy guy , i would give him this extra 10 qt oil pan i have laying around..........
But he's another damn Ford guy :banghead:
2sav ;D
2sav, If your looking to sell the BBC 10qt pan I might be interested.
crewchief
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Well, when you guys give me or buy me a bigger pan then I will run one. So far I have never lost oil pressure. I have a trick that I do for the front sump that is proven by a friend that has a Nordic jet and ran the same engine for 12 years with a front sump.
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... I have a trick that I do for the front sump that is proven by a friend that has a Nordic jet and ran the same engine for 12 years with a front sump.
Which is what?