SoCal Jet Boats
Tech Talk => Engine Mechanical / Electrical => Topic started by: JOE COASTIE on June 19, 2014, 12:23:22 PM
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So trying to get this thing fired up and starter keeps slipping. Please tell me its not possible to put fly wheel on wrong? It catches for a minute then just starts grinding. When i turn engine over by hand it will catch again for a second.
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So i just noticed my starter is not flush against bell housing for sum reason?
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Heres a pic of what im dealing with
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Is there special bolts i need to use that pushes it against the bell housing besides these?
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I had same problem. I would retighten and it would crank fine till it loosed up and it would grind nasty. Turns out I had a regular hardware store bolt. You NEED the actual starter bolts. They are knurled bolts.
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Yeah go to pep boys and buy starter bolts where your bolt is smooth a starter bolt is knurled and creates a tighter fit in the hole to keep the starter centered
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There is bolts designed just for starters you can buy than any auto parts stores in some cases there's a bracket that goes on the front of the starter to keep it from moving around my boat used to always do this No be afraid to tighten them down. The correct bolts that is don't no what grade bolt you have now
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Sweeet i thought so....will this bolt also push starter flush against bell housing were i assume starter should be?
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(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.crankshaftcoalition.com%2Fwiki%2Fimages%2Fthumb%2Fa%2Fa3%2FArp_gm_starter_bolts.jpg%2F450px-Arp_gm_starter_bolts.jpg.pagespeed.ce.dXyNG_10cx.jpg&hash=88e5b3194509f806c3733beb343e35dab55057ae)
your starter isnt fully in the bellhousing hole. fix it before you break teeth off your flywheel...
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For sure..thanks all, on my to auto parts store now
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(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.crankshaftcoalition.com%2Fwiki%2Fimages%2Fthumb%2Fa%2Fa3%2FArp_gm_starter_bolts.jpg%2F450px-Arp_gm_starter_bolts.jpg.pagespeed.ce.dXyNG_10cx.jpg&hash=88e5b3194509f806c3733beb343e35dab55057ae)
your starter isnt fully in the bellhousing hole. fix it before you break teeth off your flywheel...
hey you still have those fenders?
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Even with new bolts i couldnt get rid of gap between starter and bell housing ....does everyone with this setup hav this gap?
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This gap
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Does the starter in gage the flywheel OK or is it still grinding? Don't worry about that gap it's nothing only thing that matters is how the teeth are ingaging from the starter to the flywheel
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Ok cool on the gap part but dam thing still grabs at first then lets go.
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You think i might need a new fly wheel? Theres a acouple teeth in a row that the edges are worn down not to bad tho... it seems like those lil bit of teeth wouldnt make that big of a deal? But wat do i kno...so frustrating lol
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You might want to try and shim it run down to the auto parts store and tell them you need some Chevy starter shims they'll know what you want stick one in and see what happens
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The shim goes between the starter and the block so the teeth won't engage so deeply to each other
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Shims ok ill try anything at this point.... also wen i took starter off too check fly wheel....it appeared to be barely grabbing the tips of the teeth... also looked at starter teeth and are the starter teeth suppose to be cut at an angle?
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Thats how far starter goes in this view is from inside bell housing....does that look rite?
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You could try putting some paint on there and see how far there ingaging you may have to try a different starter
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Paint? Im about to go grab shims...how many do i put u think? Cums with 4 in a pack.
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So paint on the starter i take it? Then were starter hits fly wheel that should leave a mark correcto?
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Put a mark on the fly wheel and see if it does it in the same spot. Sounds like a flat spott
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Tried the shims and they made it worse ...think i just might hav try new starter so much for $150 starters prob the cheaper ones work better. Lol
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Starters are to expensive but sounds like the flywheel
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Heres fly wheel pic
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Looks like starter is only hitting the edge....also its been slipping at the same spot as well...daaaam man
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And the freaken starter
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Had this same problem. Changed 3 different starters. They all would grab then start grinding. Ended up changing the flex plate and problem solved.
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That sucks for shits and giggles I would throw a pep boys 35 dollar starter in there and see what it does
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Yeah the flex plates pretty hammered in that one spot
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I like ur style rush i just might like i said ill try anything before i hav to pull motor after i just put it in.....im sorry but wats the flex plate?
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Fly wheel
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That sucks for shits and giggles I would throw a pep boys 35 dollar starter in there and see what it does. I agree I would put another starter on it I had that problem starter would engage and crank for two second then gear would suck back in and spin and sound like a grinding
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Oh ok i was thinking that..lol thanks guys so try cheap starter or AND change flex plate or both? Aw man!!! I dont wanna hav to change the flex plate tho i gota rent an beg an borrow for hoist..lol
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Also try a 0.20 shim see if noise and problem goes away unless you have a hole in the back flex plate cover to measure the gap between the starter and the flex plate
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I tried a 0.40 shim and starter wouldnt even grab....so to me and im no genius by far but sounds like i need to move closer to flex plate?
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No your 100% right on the money, it's not going into the gear far enough.
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Soooo i guess now its just try different starters and if that fails then pull her out and change flex plate ...dang it!!!
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You might wanna double check what starter that is. There are 2 different flex plate/starter possibilities here. There are 153 tooth and 168 tooth flex plates and they have to use the corresponding starter.
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Aww sheet really? So watever this starter says has to match with flex? So then i hav to count each tooth on flex to make sure it corresponds? Thanks will do...anything just not to pull her lol
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I cant find anywhere online that says what this starter uses teeth wise....i does say 14in fkex plate tho?
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What motor is in your boat? What did your old starter look like? Have any pics?
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454 bbc...no old starter this is the one that came with boat it was a basket case wen i got it so no pics sorry... this starter looked as if it had never even been used before tho so maybe previous owner f'd up?
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Haha may be there's a reason why it wasn't used
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Maybe well just like my hard headed self gota find things out the hard way. Lol...oh well back at it today gonna try to cum up with something.
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And the freaken starter
so this starter has 11 teeth im gonna go grab a 9 teeth starter and see what happens...F... IT!!!!!
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That sucks for shits and giggles I would throw a pep boys 35 dollar starter in there and see what it does
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tried the pepboys 35 dollar but its to big now in search of a mini starter 9 teeth
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So looking to purchase a 9 teeth mini starter now and how come they say "will replace older 9 tooth starters" ? Is there no difference? Uug !!!!!!
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So looking to purchase a 9 teeth mini starter now and how come they say "will replace older 9 tooth starters" ? Is there no difference? Uug !!!!!!
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maybe post up your block numbers here and ask exactly what year the engine is and what starter and flex plate should be in there someone like GT Jets will know exactly what it should be.
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Ok thanks
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Block casting is 361959 and has cm10t next to that....online says 1973-85 . But dont know what flex plate it has. Thank you sooooo much for any help and all help already given. :)
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it sound like the nose con on the starter is to short that gap might be part of the problem if I remember right chevy made two starter one that had a long con and short con and the short con was used on the small blocks
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That makes total since cuz looking at it from the back side...the tip of nose cone barely sticks out past flex plate.
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Sound like the one you have is for a small block if you call the part house and have them measure the length on a cone for a big block Chevy the starter that I have for my big block the outside hole measure from there to the cone is 1"7/8
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Im sorry but is this were ur measuring from?
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Where the bolt go through the starter to the block out side hole measure from the face of the hole the cone
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Oooooh so from here?
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The starter your measuring is it a mini starter or regular size?
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Looking at where you make it from it looks like from your tape it reads 7/8 of inch I megamind from the same spot and it reads 7/8 of inch the start look the same
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Does yours have 11 or 9 teeth?
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Mini starter
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Mine has 11 teeth if your has 9 then i believe thats my prob at least i hope lol
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Check you flex plat I have seen where they have been put in wrong
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Aw man dont say that..lol i followed the book and just doubke checked and the square cast dimples on flex plate are facing aft. Same as book.
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So your good that right you may have a small flex plat your going to haft to count the number of teeth you have on your flex plat
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Aaw man that should be a treat. Lol
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Well i appreciate your help im gonna try and do that. I will post what i find.
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It not going to be fun but if you have some one that can help you put a make on the flex plat and then have some turn the motor over slow and count the teeth it will be a time consumer
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Your welcome
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Ok so i counted teeth on flex plate assuming i didnt miss any or count them wrong there is 169 teeth?
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I'm thinking that your problem if the count is right I believe that the small flex plate you will haft to get the start that fit that flex plate
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Yea that's the only thing i can think of...thanks man.
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You got it
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sooooo i thought i had the right starter bolts...the two long chrome ones on the right are two long short chrome is too short but the regular hardware store one fits...its a 4 inch the rest are 4 5/8 or shorter...wtf..every auto parts store i went to gave the same shiiiit...wth is going on?
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Dan forgot pics again
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Dan forgot pics again
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What makes you say they are wrong? The knurled portion actually us supposed to protrude through the starter housing into the bottom of the block by about 5/8"... Are your sure someone didn't Dick up the holes? So to speak.
GT
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Ooooh maybe....they dont tighten all the way...only the 4inch hardware store does
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Ooooh maybe....they dont tighten all the way...only the 4inch hardware store does
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I fat fingered the damn phone. 3/8", not 5/8"..
One of the two holes goes all the way through the block while the other is blind.
You could try using some hardened flat washers to get the length you need. It totally Micky Mouse, but still 100x better than Homer D. Poe bolts..
JMHO
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I fat fingered the damn phone. 3/8", not 5/8"..
One of the two holes goes all the way through the block while the other is blind.
You could try using some hardened flat washers to get the length you need. It totally Micky Mouse, but still 100x better than Homer D. Poe bolts..
JMHO
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the 2 bolts should be the same size correct?
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I had the same problem years ago bolts were either to long or to short. Take the long one and cutt off what you think is enough but before you cutt them run a nut down the bolt after you cut it take a file and clean up the cutt in and pull the nut off to fix any damaged threads
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the 2 bolts should be the same size correct?
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The starter that takes two different length bolts is totally obvious.
Not near a 'puter right now, but I believe that they are the same on your deal...
Just make sure the knurled portion goes all the way through the housing and into the chick like 3/8" and it will be fine.
You may have to cut the ends of the bolts like was said. Maybe starters are thicker in China....
:))
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The starter that takes two different length bolts is totally obvious.
Not near a 'puter right now, but I believe that they are the same on your deal...
Just make sure the knurled portion goes all the way through the housing and into the chick like 3/8" and it will be fine.
You may have to cut the ends of the bolts like was said. Maybe starters are thicker in China....
:))
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LOL i remember u said we hav starter tho....u dont remember wat size bolts u hav? or did u hav to cut yours also?
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LOL i remember u said we hav starter tho....u dont remember wat size bolts u hav? or did u hav to cut yours also?
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Nope, my bolts are from a 1970 LS7, never had an issue. I am thinking the bolts you have are either the wrong ones or made in China by a dude using a chop stick as a measuring tool.
I think they are the regular old 3-3/4" bolts though... Same bolt as the longer one used in the starter with two different length bolts.
GT
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Well, im gonna try and slap it all back together later on today and see what happens. try some other bolts, trial and error like jet fever said. LOL :banghead:
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PROBLEM SOLVED...New flex plate, Tried a shiiiiit load of differant starter bolts and finally found the right combo. Turns over No Prob..Thanks all for help. :thumbup: 8)